Ernis

November 21st, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^

“the unwavering belief that they are right and everyone else is not.”

To be fair, it’s plainly evident that we’re the only ones who carefully read the rule book…

Joined: 09/23/2008

MGoPoints: 11480

brad

November 21st, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^

Well, we are right.  Everyone who is allowing themselves to be sheep, herded around by headlines with no substance, is usually wrong.  That is the case here.

The fact that the herd includes our conference commissioner is bad luck for us, but it does not make that numbskull right.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 15737

NotADuck

November 21st, 2023 at 9:34 AM ^

Also to be fair, sign stealing via a network of hired fans is against the rules.  It's pretty clear that if Harbaugh is going to say the things he says and ruffle the feathers of the NCAA (and a lot of other people), he needs to run the cleanest program in the world.  If not, these things are going to continue to happen.

To be clear, I fully support Harbaugh.  He challenges the NCAA power structure and those in power don't like that one bit.  They want to shut him up or force him out and the easiest way to do that is to comb his program for issues.  He must be squeaky clean from now on or else these 3 game suspensions will become a regular occurrence.  Possibly extending more than 3 games.

Joined: 12/20/2013

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Ernis

November 21st, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^

“sign stealing via a network of hired fans is against the rules”

You sure about that? Seems TBD to me. But based on the words in the rule book, falls within the scope of acceptable activity. NCAA can do whatever it wants, obviously, and punish M even if M didn’t violate any rules, but based on the rules as they’re written there should be no controversy.

Joined: 09/23/2008

MGoPoints: 11480

BlueTimesTwo

November 21st, 2023 at 9:53 AM ^

If you want to declare the CS method to be advance scouting, then you also have to consider it advanced scouting when other teams' coaches collude to share signs with coaches who have yet to play Michigan.  They decoded (read "stole") the signs with the express purpose of sharing them after the game.  The effect is the same, if not worse.

The crux of the whole argument by our rivals is that we had an unfair advantage because of CS.  But if the other teams did indeed share our signs and collude against us, they not only had our signs, but had multiple coaching staffs working together to beat us.  Depending on how much it can be proven that they worked together, that could be really bad for them, assuming that the B1G cares at all about the integrity of the game.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 13407

NotADuck

November 21st, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^

What I'm saying is it doesn't matter of other programs are breaking the rules because Michigan is clearly in the crosshairs of the NCAA.  Michigan (re: Harbaugh) are going to be held to unreasonable standards because they buck trends and ruffle feathers.  Any violation of rules, no matter how big or small, is going to be used against the program.  Even if such rule is violated regularly by other programs.  This is clear.

Gotta be the cleanest program in existence now.

Joined: 12/20/2013

MGoPoints: 18287

M-Dog

November 21st, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^

If you want to declare the CS method to be advance scouting, then you also have to consider it advanced scouting when other teams' coaches collude to share signs with coaches who have yet to play Michigan.

This misses the point.  The CS in-person scouting method does indeed break the rule, while the coaches sharing information among themselves does not.

Why?  Because the rule - NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1 implemented in 1994 - is just a cost-savings rule for small schools, it has nothing to do with competitive advantage.  The NCAA said so in writing when it attempted to rescind the rule in 2021 as part of its rule modernization effort.  Because the rule is obsolete and immaterial in the internet age.

We broke an administrative rule by spending more money than we should have ($15,000).  That's it.  That is what we did.  

OK, fine.  You don't get to pick which rules you follow.  You break the rule, you take the punishment.  But the punishment has to fit the "crime."  This is a misdemeanor. This is not a "scandal."  The Big Ten is giving jail time for a parking ticket.

So, what should the punishment be?  Well here's a hint at what it shouldn't be:

Suspending the head coach for the program's biggest game this fucking century.    

That is the Big Ten blatantly putting its thumb on the competitive scale and directly interfering with game results to benefit the opposing team.  Because that opposing team pressured them to do it.   

 

Joined: 07/06/2008

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Ernis

November 21st, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^

The reason for the rule was cost-savings. The rule itself prohibits scouting regardless of expenditures.

Filming is not scouting, per NCAA rules. How they rule about all of this, and what room M has to contest (including in court), is still up in the air AFAICT. I'm not sure your analysis is hitting on relevant points.

Joined: 09/23/2008

MGoPoints: 11480

NotADuck

November 21st, 2023 at 3:55 PM ^

If Michigan believed it didn't break any rules then why are both Stalions and Partridge gone?  There wouldn't be any need to fire anybody if what they did was legal.  Especially Partridge.  The article that OP posted is becoming more and more relevant as I read these comments.  Homer bias is absolutely a thing on this blog, not that that is unexpected.

Joined: 12/20/2013

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MGoPolo20

November 21st, 2023 at 9:34 AM ^

The article also features the maybe-a-little-too-accurate line:

“Somehow, every single person who attended the University of Michigan is a lawyer. (You can take my word; no fact-checking of this point is necessary.)”

Joined: 03/27/2015

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