Help: links to articles on why football is ok needed

Submitted by StephenRKass on

So my wife and I watched "Concussion" tonight. This was kind of a mistake. Now she is ready to pull our son from football.

I fully understand that there is a danger of both concussions and CTE. However, I also know that coaching paradigms have changed, and that there are some studies showing it is not always bad for kids to play HS football.

Of course, I can google this. But you never know what you're going to find on the Internet. If any of you neurologists or doctors or coaches who have followed this can post some links on why it is ok to play tackle football in High School, it would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT:  As I read through the comments, I thought a few edits were in order.'

First, to reiterate, I have no problem with my son playing football, if he wants to play (which he does). Now, I want the trainers and the coaches to carefully follow concussion protocol. I pretty much have a "one concussion" rule. (If you have one concussion you're done playing football. Exception:  I recognize that in an abundance of caution, a trainer might go CYA and say, "your son might have had a mild concussion," when it is pretty unlikely. In the current climate, trainers can be a bit gun shy. That's when you get a second opinion).

Second, regarding bubblewrap and all, actually, we are fortunate to have pretty active kids. Between roller blading, street hockey, skateboarding, dirt biking, bicycling, and other stuff, we're glad the kids aren't just getting fat playing video games on the couch. His twin sister made the varsity soccer team this year as a freshman:  I suppose we should watch her just as carefully for concussions!

The movie "Concussion" really kind of loads the deck. Even though you can get a concussion in soccer or from a bicycle fall or from just tripping over your feet and hitting your head, there is something viscereal about seeing footage of brutal hits. When a mom sees clips of brutal head to head collisions in NFL games, it is pretty sobering. I'm sure the movie cherry picked the most graphic, brutal head to head collisions they could possibly find. This seems more frightening than the image of a kid on a socceer field, skateboard, roller blades, or a bicycle.

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Blueblood2991

June 18th, 2016 at 1:45 AM ^

I clicked on the "concussion" tag in the OP, and you've made 3 threads in the past month about concussions. I could be way off, but I would guess that this has been a hot topic in your family that wasn't just brought on by a movie.

You're not going to find an article that says football is safe. Period. More awareness and better technique has made the game safer, but no medical professional would ever say it was safe.

You have to basically do a pro(and believe me there's a ton) and con list with your wife and son and decide if the risks outweigh the benefits. No one on this board can make that decision for you. It's a tough one too.

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StephenRKass

June 18th, 2016 at 5:52 PM ^

The other post was about how Michigan football fans reconcile being football fans with being against their child's personal involvement. And FTR, I am not raising that question in the least.

This is the first time (in 8 years of playing football) that we've really looked at the question. Yes, it is an issue. We'll have to just see. I do think there are a lot of bright people on this website, and I was sure there would be links to some good information (which there was). At this point, I don't have data that is conclusive either way.

I get the "self-confirming bias" thing. But I am really trying to look at this with an open mind, and work together with my wife and son to come to the right decision.

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RobM_24

June 18th, 2016 at 2:02 AM ^

I love football. If (and when) I have children, they'll be playing basketball and baseball (with bump caps and padded vests). It sucks, but that's what is logical (I think?!?).

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UMgradMSUdad

June 18th, 2016 at 3:52 AM ^

This article doesn't address CTE, but a study of over 3,000 former NFL players showed they  tended to live longer, healthier lives than American males in general.

http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(11)03387-X/fulltext

Also, remember that the NFL did not ban steroids until 1983 and did not start testing for them until 1987.  Very few players ever voluntarily admit to using steroids or other PEDs, but most aknowledge that their use was (and possibly still is) widespread among NFL players.  Is it not possible that long term steroid abuse might make football players more suceptible to CTE, either because of physical or behavioral changes that steroids are known to cause?

 

 

 

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Lumpers

June 18th, 2016 at 4:19 AM ^

My son just started high school freshman summer training camp in Northern California.  Being a former trainer at UofM in the 80s, I have seen the effects first hand, especially when i see former players at reunions now and how much better I am compared to what they endured.  But CFB is a totally different ballgame than HS football.  My son has been a hockey and lacrosse goalie for many years with no concussion or injury problems, outside of of some minor things like patellar tendonitis.  He's had worse injuries in pick up basketball.  But still the concussion issue is big concern of mine and my wife who is a doctor.

The local high school here has every player have brain scans done and also we had a CT baseline taken as well (sorry i am not the doctor, but my son stayed up all night and then goes to clinic, has probes attached to his head and takes a series of tests to monitor his brain functions/response times/reactions, etc...)

So now we have a baseline, we made a deal with my son, if he gets one concussion and the doctor says there is any impact whatsoever, he is done with the sport.  He wants to play badly, so that's the deal.  Now i have to be diligent about making sure he is not covering anything up on the injury front.  He has a legit shot to a QB, so i think its going to be a bit easier for me to track him if he gets dinged. Playing other positions is not as easy to track and they have much more head contact during practice.

I still believe football is one of the best team sports invented and think that there are major benefits for my son to learn and experience by playing the game.

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1VaBlue1

June 18th, 2016 at 8:16 AM ^

 I like the idea of having a baseline brain scan and CT, but they do nothing to diagnose CTE.  Concussions, also, have little effect on CTE.  At least, that is what I've read since this first became a discussion a few years ago.  The problem is repititive blows to the head - and they do not need to end with a concussion.  CTE can only be diagnosed positively by cross-sectioning the brain.  And because doctors aren't smart enough yet, that can't be done while still alive.  Well, if you want to live through it, anyway...

Tough choice...  I know I want my kid to play sports - all that he's interested in.  Mom wants nothing to do with football or hockey (go figure).  He's only 5, and just starting t-ball, so our discussions about this are still in early stages.  We'll see where they go based on his interests as he grows up.

You know, you UM engineering and medical grads are really starting to piss me off.  There still aren't any flying cars, time travel, or functional cross-sectioning of brains while remaining alive.  What the hell?  Git off yer lazy azzez, you think JMFH would let you be so lazy if he chaired those schools?  C'mon!!!

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Happy Gilmore

June 18th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^

A "brain scan" would be either a CT (cheap but exposes the patient to the same radiation as hundreds of X-rays) or MRI (no radiation, expensive) - MRI is superior to CT when looking at the brain, but overall in a healthy person either one essentially would just show you the anatomy ("everything looks normal"). What you are describing occurring in the clinic sounds like an EEG, which is a functional view of the neuronal activity of the brain. I'm not sure what the utility of a "baseline" of either would be in a healthy young person. In the immediate postconcussive state, you'd possibly see some evidence of localized brain edema with an MRI or brain wave slowing on EEG, but you wouldn't need a baseline to see that, and you wouldn't need to see any changes to diagnose a concussion. Without even considering the radiation exposure from a CT in a 14 year old freshman (everything has risks!), it seems like a giant, giant waste of money to get a CT or MRI + an EEG on every high schooler before participating in sports. Though I'm sure the radiologists and neurologists are happy to oblige..

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BoFan

June 18th, 2016 at 5:41 AM ^

It's Father's Day Sunday. Do what's best for your son. Put him first and pull him out. There are much safer sports. There are much more important things than football for your son.

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Bo Schemheckler

June 18th, 2016 at 6:16 AM ^

I don't have the link but about 6 months ago mlive reported michigan high school concussion stats and about 4% of all high school football players had a concussion compared to about 3% of soccer players if I recall correctly

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M Go Cue

June 18th, 2016 at 6:21 AM ^

Throw out the bicycle.  Provide a helmet for all trips up and down the stairs.  Allow her/him on the swim team as long as she/he wears a life jacket for all competitions.  Thumb wrestling is okay too as long as the other child has bathed in Purel.

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a different Jason

June 18th, 2016 at 6:50 AM ^

If my kid was my size, stout, I would let him play. I would buy him a top quality helmet and teach him to keep his head up. I might have misgivings but I suffer no ill affects from football and millions of others haven't either.

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xtramelanin

June 18th, 2016 at 6:56 AM ^

in that the forces in CFB and the NFL are much greater/faster.  i would make a few other comments on the topic.

1.  the studies done have generally not been random samples, but of folks who had some issues in the first place.   that's like trying to quantify how many cars have accidents, but starting your counting in a junk yard.

2.  nobody accounts for a particular variable that i think is very important - lots of CFB and NFL guys did/do live extremely risky lives in many other areas, many of which may also take years to manifest themselves.   i have observed first hand the tremendous strain they put on their bodies in terms of booze, drugs and steroids (and some smoking), all of which can greatly increase all of the issues that are now manifest with CTE, and which take time to develop.

3.  some of the 'non-contact' sports are every bit as bad or worse.  see: soccer stats with worse concussion stats are easy to find.  girls hoops, surprising number of dingers, and daughter's team has had 2 girls get their bell rung in the last couple of weeks.

4.  i played hockey in college, then ended up playing full-contact football until 41 yr old.  only one dinger, playing for the jr. wings in the late 70's against windsor.  no issues so far, and you and i are pretty close to being contemporaries.  anecdotal, but a real life example.

EDIT/DISCLOSURE:  my 4 oldest sons all play football (and wrestle) and i have or do coach them.  we are most definitely a 'football' family.  if one of them got a dinger though, you can bet we would be careful about allowing that particular son to play again, or any time soon.

 

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unWavering

June 18th, 2016 at 7:23 AM ^

I'm going to take a guess that most people on this board played football in some capacity or another. And I'm going to further venture that almost no one on here has had any neurological issues due to playing football. As with anything, football comes with a certain risk. It's up to you to decide whether it's worth it. I believe it is. I don't have kids, but if I did, mine would be playing football, if they choose to do so.

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evenyoubrutus

June 18th, 2016 at 7:27 AM ^

Tell her that you're more likely to die in a car accident than from football, then give her the same speech William Wallace gave at the Battle of Stirling Bridge.

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1VaBlue1

June 18th, 2016 at 8:35 AM ^

I don't have anything for the OP in terms of studies or links, but do have one point of CTE contention - the NFL has totally fucked it's repsonse to the whole mess.  TOTALLY!!!

They've chosen to fight it all along, and only recently have - very grudgingly - given a tepid positive response to certain studies of fact.  And now, not only the NFL, but all of football is under 'attack' (for lack of a better term) because of what the NFL tried to seep under the rug.  IMO, the NFL should have jumped all over this by proactively.  You would think that an organization made up of only business savvy billionaires would understand how to interpret public opinion and sway it to thier benefit.  That's why they're billionaires, after all - they understood a market and could see where to take it successfully.  Unfortunately, they chose the route of the other thing this group has in common - vanity and self-importance.  They covered it all up to make themselves look better.

The NFL can still fix its perception problem by getting ahead of the train.  I think they should put more money into the player retirement fund and CTE pool (if they even have it, I think they do).  They should gen up guidelines on proper technique - then set up training clinics for coaches on how to teach them.  They should decide on protective gear (ie: helmets with sensors, and whatnot), and provide them to HS's and colleges across the country (at subsidized costs, so the smaller, less fortunate schools can also afford them).  It would cost the NFL $$$ billions, but the NFL has it.  The NFL has to lead this, not Jim Harbaugh on Michigan's tab.

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PeterKlima

June 18th, 2016 at 8:40 AM ^

your son to live a longer life. The data from NIH shows former football players live longer than non-players (except fat linemen). The benefits to your health outweigh the risks.

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Sopwith

June 18th, 2016 at 10:25 AM ^

No. You're talking about a small and frankly much-maligned study by NIOSH. A far more thorough and credible study was done by Harvard or year later and the results are pretty dramatic. NFL players have shorter lives and it's not even close. http://archive.boston.com/lifestyle/health/2013/01/29/nfl-players-union…



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PeterKlima

June 18th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^

1. you linked to a proposal for a study. 2. it is a proposal sponsored by the players union in the midst of multi million dollar legislation. 3. there is no actual study in the link. 4. you also use baseless adjectives to describe the two studies. Your position is hollow... like your debate skillz.

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Sopwith

June 18th, 2016 at 10:58 AM ^

You're right, wrong link, what I was reading was linked to the Boston.com story. Cutting and pasting is tricky while driving. It is also associated with shorter lifespans.



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kyeblue

June 18th, 2016 at 8:47 AM ^

and exaggerates the fact. the bigger the film, the more they exaggerate, it is creative art not science. Everything we do, jogging, swimming, skiing, tennis, even sitting at home carry some risk or negative impact. the question is whether the positives weigh more than the negatives.

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StephenRKass

June 18th, 2016 at 4:31 PM ^

Umm, I'm trying to do what is best for my kid. That's why I asked the question. I tend to think football is fine. My wife has significant doubt. So I'm just trying to find pros and cons in terms of information and studies that are out there. This is one area I don't want to just go with a "gut feeling."

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TESOE

June 18th, 2016 at 1:14 PM ^

There isn't enough data in the universe to answer this question as regards your son.  

My advice is to talk to your wife and work this out.  

I would say the movie you saw is no great work of art or science.  MSU Dad lays out the best article wrt your request (if that is what you need).  Keep in mind that is for NFL players.  If you think your son is going to play on Sundays - check that out.  If not then the preponderance of the science/links/data/media/propaganda/hype implore caution... especially at younger ages.  

If it were my son I would have him play relatively non contact team sports and run track/cross country up to high school at which time I would reappraise.  It's not a simple yes or no.

The reality is there are many interests pulling at the data ... too many... to give your wife consolation.  That is why you get the big bucks.  Just make sure they aren't big Buckeyes.  That is all I would ask. 

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