Fitz/Hawthorne/Pass Interference and other questions
September 11th, 2011 at 9:20 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^
"Banged up in practice?" I wonder what Mike Hart would think of that when he was playing through a high ankle sprain his entire senior season.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:27 AM ^
1)If you are talking about the one they called on Avery that put the ball on the 2, I thought that call was questionable at best. I was sitting in the 3rd row of that corner. If they called that, they absolutely should have called PI when ND intercepted that pass in the opposite endzone. I watched that one on our beautiful HD scoreboard. Awesome replay machine, but come one 2 weeks in a row where the down and distance is constantly behind or not accurate, and the play by play scroll needs a spell check. Sorry, I digress.
2) That was a blown assignment. In the presser after the game, Hoke said they tried to show a look and then get out of it. Well, that didn't work.
3) Fitz mentioned in the practice video that Fitz was banged up. The internets didn't expect him to play yesterday morning, and he didn't.
4) Hawthorne did have himself a game didn't he?
September 11th, 2011 at 9:38 AM ^
the Avery PI was questionable, but JT Floyd got away with one against their Floyd, so it's kind of a wash.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:40 AM ^
My question is what was with the placement on Avery's PI. It was a play from the 22 yard line, and I thought the PI was committed in the end zone which should have the ball placed at the 2? Or is that just an NFL rule. And why was it 15 yards instead of half the distance to the goal line? It was in fact placed on the 7 yard line.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:44 AM ^
The maximum a pass interference can advance the ball in the NCAA is 15 yards. The interference was in the endzone, so the ball would be placed on the 2, except the "maximum advancement" rule came into effect, so the ball could only be moved from the 22 to the 7.
Half the distance doesn't apply here, since the penalty is a "spot foul"--the offended team gets the ball at the spot of the foul (with the 15-yard limitation).
September 11th, 2011 at 11:53 AM ^
Did you look this up or have expereince as an official?
September 11th, 2011 at 12:00 PM ^
Well, neither. I try to be familiar with all of the rules (the TV announcers rarely know what they're talking about), and I remember back to when this particular rule was changed--as a result of a questionable pass interference call against Michigan in the Michigan-Notre Dame game in (I think) 1980 that went for 40 or 50 yards and set up Notre Dame's game-winning field goal. They changed the rule in 1981 to limit a pass interference penalty to 15 yards.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:47 AM ^
My mistake. It was a standard 15 yard penalty. It was not on the 2. Last night I could have sworn I heard the official say that because the PI was in the endzone they were going to place it at the 2 and giving myself a WTF did I hear this dude correctly when it was placed at the 7 or so. It was freaking loud in there, yo.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:58 AM ^
The ref did iniitially announce the ball was going to be placed on the 2. It came loud and clear of my TV screen. Brent Mushburger was amazingly not talking at the time.
September 11th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^
credited Michigan's last TD to "Rory Roundtree." He made numerous other mistakes during the game, but I still prefer him to Pam Ward.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^
He was face guarding. If he had turned to look for the ball, he'd have been fine.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^
From my recollection, Avery did not turn to see the ball, yes, and he was playing physically. However, he only initiated full contact AFTER the ball had touched floyd. You are allowed to have one arm on the receiver as long as it is not on the inside arm of the receiver.
That's like saying football's a contact sport but just don't touch each other at all or that's a penalty.
Solid coverage by Avery and Floyd all night long. Michael Floyd killed us when he lined up in the slot though.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^
i agree completely. avery was not guilty of PI. he did not have his head turned and that's why the call was made. but the rule is that you can get away with a little contact if your head is turned. avery didn't make contact at all. for instance, if the receiver had made an over the shoulder catch, his back would have been to the ball too and then if avery hit the receiver after the ball made contact with the WR, that wouldn't be pass interference.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
Floyd's was clearly PI, however, I'd like to see if the other Floyd, Michael Floyd pushed off as JT was clearly exclaiming.
Avery's would've been PI, but he missed Floyd (and the ball)...he just didn't turn around after getting beat and the ref through the flag. But replay after replay you could see it. You even saw Hoke damn near in the endzone after watching the replay arguing the call. It was a horrible one. Avery really didn't even touch him until the ball was well by Floyd and they were falling to the ground.
September 11th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
Michael Floyd was definitely pushing off quite a bit, most noticeably on the 2-and-25 completion for 24.9 yards. On that play the spot looked pretty bad to me too. It looke like he was about a yard short, not the 6 inches where they spotted it (and they barely converted the 3-and-6-inches.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:26 AM ^
.....more or less resolves this thread.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
I need more information!
September 11th, 2011 at 9:34 AM ^
What happened to Mike Jones and Brandon Herron didnt see either one of them out there!
September 11th, 2011 at 10:14 AM ^
Herron was banged up, I believe.
Mike Jones has not been playing well.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:37 AM ^
Hopkins looked like crap, Shaw was non-existent. Smith played a solid game, but our RB's weren't there at all tonight.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
..you don't want to establish. Like hitting the line slow or running with eyes down and missing the hole.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:51 AM ^
Got literally no push on running plays. Worrisome. I don't know how much was the fault of the RBs. Hopkins worries me, because that fumble was inexcusable.
The Avery PI call in the endzone was not PI. The Floyd call on the last drive was clearly PI.
Hawthorne had a monster second half. Our defense is not much better talent wise compared to last year, but they are stronger in fundamental tackling, and the scheme is better.
September 11th, 2011 at 9:57 AM ^
Are the jump balls by design. Did our coaches see something in the ND secondary that made them think we could be successful with simply throwing it up? Denard had to have thrown 6-7.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:20 AM ^
even Herbstriet and Musberger commented that Denard's last INT was the only time all night that ND's backs found the ball early enough to make a play on it. The rest of the night it was practically a free catch.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
I wouldn't necessarily call them 'jump balls'. Notre Dame was playing man to man almost the entire night. The defenders had their back to the ball and couldn't see when the ball was in the air. All the receivers had to do was locate the ball.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:02 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 10:16 AM ^
That would be Dymonte Thomas.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
So if the spirit of the post was snarky laziness, you succeeded.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:27 AM ^
Yeah, I'm sure the feeling he was trying to convey through his post was snarky laziness. It's funny how even after the greatest game many of us have ever seen, people still act like douchebags on this board.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^
Where was Herron? I know Brian removed the veil on his WM performance and showed us he really played like poo. Maybe the coaches saw the same thing? Does anyone know?
September 11th, 2011 at 10:09 AM ^
and Hawthorne are just more game ready. Herron has the athleticism, but isn't making the reads fast enough.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
while we're talking about the MIA -- How about Carvin Johnson? From what I saw Marvin Robinson went the whole way. And whats up with Troy right hand -- thought he hurt his left ankle.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^
I noticed CJ for one play in the first quarter. There could have been more, I really wasn't seeking him out. However, on that play, he lined up incorrectly. Marvin Robinson played the rest of the game. Marvin may have started for all I know. I was more focused on the DL and LB play at the start of the game.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:13 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
Thanks !
<br>
<br>/vsmith
September 12th, 2011 at 9:24 AM ^
Absolutely...and hopefully Mr. Smith will show T Rawles and J Hayes the correct way to hold on to a football and run.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:15 AM ^
Even Herbie thought the Avery pass interference was a poor call.
September 11th, 2011 at 10:34 AM ^
From my view the roughing the passer call on the ensuing drivewas a good make up call.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:22 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 11:29 AM ^
I see why they did call it. I probably wouldn't have. My only beef was if that was PI, then there was PI on the pick Denard threw in the endzone too.
September 11th, 2011 at 12:55 PM ^
Face-guarding is purely an NFL rule. You can faceguard all you want in college as long as you don't slap the receiver in the face.
September 11th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
September 11th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
it sounded like a lineman got called, how does that even happen?
September 11th, 2011 at 10:37 AM ^
A D-lineman gets called for holding if he's preventing a guard from pulling. In this case, however, Will Campbell was being chop-blocked by two O-lineman. So I don't see how it was defensive holding.
September 11th, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^
The defensive holding call went against Will Heininger.
You're right about it being BS, though.
September 11th, 2011 at 1:12 PM ^
I watched the defensive holding replay a few times on FanVision. WH got chop blocked, but then grabbed the pants of another DL trying to step over him while he was lying on his back. It was kind of bullshit, but probably not a total phantom call. The face-guarding PI, on the other hand, is not a college rule AFAIK.