First peeks at Denard
This from our friends at GBMW, It got me fired up and looking forward to Denard and Tate this season.
"D. Robinson athleticism is really impressive. He runs like V. Smith in that he is just so smooth and looks like he uses very little effort, but the difference is he runs at a completely different level than Smith. He is very fast. The thing that is most impressive is that he just looks like a football player who seems to really enjoy being there. He throws the ball similar to Tate in terms of velocity, but Tate is way ahead in terms of accuracy and knowing when to use different touch on the ball."
I am very interested to see how he is developed. I just can't see him sitting on the bench with his athleticism but can you really expect him to be the #2 QB if he is on the field constantly at another position?
FWIW quite a few ND "recruiting mods" (not sure how to really describe them but talent evaluators I guess) are much more worried about where he will be lining up than forcier.
I may be in the minority but I see Denard getting time at QB starting Sept. 5. We have no depth and if Denard shows the poise to handle snaps under center he is going to get them.
I agree, I think he'll get a few snaps here and there.
Without a real option past him on the depth chart, I could see rodriguez handling him very cautiously for the first year. If he does get injured playing in the slot, we would be one qb away from sheridan, and noone wants to c that. I don't think we won't see him at all this year though, he should get a few snaps at qb and possibly a few of the trick play variety, I just think the depth concerns will keep him from seeing a decent amount of snaps until another qb gets on campus, or he earns a starting job, which can't be ruled out right now.
"FWIW quite a few ND "recruiting mods" (not sure how to really describe them but talent evaluators I guess) are much more worried about where he will be lining up than forcier."
Isn't that just because there is no ambiguity for Tate (he is a QB or nothing and they KNOW where he'll be lining up) but lots of ambiguity for DRob (he is capable of playing many positions)?
Really it's his measurables which aren't always so accurate in a recruiting profile. But his speed and size seem to be the qualities they're building their opinion on. It's obvious he has the speed to be so strong in track and he appeared to be all of his listed height.
But its still a bunch of assumptions.
I met the dude before the spring game at my place of business, I'm about 6'2 and I had a little room on him.... he's a legit 6'
Thanks for posting.
i'd imagine he gets 8-10 snaps a game and 3-5 playes where he'll get a chance to make a play. IOW, not just lining up at slot or in the backfield or at QB for a simple hand off. 3-5 plays a game where he get the ball in his hands by design.
How fun would it be if Denard exceeded everyone's wildest expectations and was the starter this year, over Forcier.
Ha, I have covered this highly improbable outcome in which I will now bookmark.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but given what Coach Rod has said about wanting his best players on the field at all times, I'm expecting Denard to be a full-time DB or WR in addition to taking some snaps at QB. To be clear, I'm not saying that he'd be a starting DB or WR, but I don't think they're just going to run him out for a handful of "Denard" plays.
It's not uncommon for teams to put freshman QB prospects at other positions for a year to bide their time (see Texas A&M and Ryan Tannehill last year), and given the reports of Denard's accuracy it seems that he'll be better able to contribute elsewhere immediately. As long as the coaches make it clear that he'll have a full and fair opportunity to compete at QB every year, I can't imagine he'd object to the extra snaps.
I see that being much more likely with Gardner in 2 years when both Tate and Denard are juniors. We'd have decent depth at that time and he is such a phenomenal athlete that it would be a waste to keep him off the field. With Denard this season we are in such a scary place with depth that the risk to injury is too great and he has so much to learn for just the qb position that learning wr or cb would be too much.
I don't think there is any question that Denard can contribute immediately at other positions, however, I think the need to develop a competent QB supersedes utilizing Denards ability to play other positions.
I guess my point is that I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. There's no reason Denard couldn't take snaps at QB with the second team (where he'll probably be rotating with Sheridan anyway), rotate with Floyd as the 3rd or 4th corner, and then continue to work on his throwing mechanics outside of practice. Most of the above responses seem to assume that giving Denard any time at QB means he can't be used elsewhere with any regularity.
You may be correct, I would expect if Denard is going to play multiple positions, it will be on the Offensive side of the ball.
There are so many things that one must learn at EACH position, that any time spent at another position means that a true freshman will be ready for neither. With the lack of depth at QB, the only sensible solution is to spend as much time as possible getting him ready to play there.
exists
Maybe he could be a "slash" this season...
I don't see them having enough depth at QB to put Denard in harms way at other positions. Can you imagine the outcry if he gets hurt. Then every time Forcier drops back for a pass the entire Blue nation will gasp. Because one bad hit would be all that stands between Sheridan and the field.
BINGO.
I don’t think my weary heart could take that!
With our depth at QB I can't imagine Denard spends too much time working on other positions at least this year. As much as I appreciate and admire Nick Sheridan's work ethic I'd feel a whole lot better if Denard spends his time learning the demands of RR's QB position in case he needs to step in at some point.
After suffering through last year's QB play, we really need to have two quality QBs (or more) ready to play and RROD has said as much. Denard didn't get the same level of coaching/training as Tate, so he will mainly need to focus on becoming a collegiate QB this year. They could use him for a few specific plays as a slot, but hopefully they won't divide his attention by having him learn all the plays at another position. QB is too critical in this offense and we need depth, especially with Tate not being the biggest guy.
was brought in to compete at the QB position. Thats where he will be for 2 or so year until they think they have enough QBs more skilled than him and can move him to another position. He was recruited specifically with the notion that he has every opportunity in the world to take snaps. If he wasnt given that opportunity, hed be a Florida Gator right now.
maybe I'm wrong (and to be fair, i have no basis for anything), but i just get the feeling that Denard would be best suited as a Percy Harvin kind of player... he'll take handoffs on end rounds, get screens, maybe throw a little on options.
that would seem to be the best use of him, IMHO. i mean, if Forcier is as accurate and savvy as a QB as it seems, there's no point in keeping him off the field. Just put Denard on the field WITH him.
I guess it's certainly possible that we have a Zwick/Troy Smith duo here, where forcier's the highly touted thrower, and DRob's the project that ends up making OSU cry for three years, but I certainly hope Tate doesn't bust like Zwick did.
smith wasn't that fast and didn't scramble with the intent of running. He was very good at evading the rush to give his receivers time to get open and delivered the ball on time. So its kinda a bad comparison.
I think the GBMW epinion makers are referring to Vincent Smith (or Vince Young??) and you are referring to Troy Smith.
I have no clue what they are talking about, but that's not uncommon when GBMW is the subject.
and edited for the 3rd time.
The guy I was replying to was saying hed like tate/DR to turn into Zwick/T. Smith. Think he was getting at a good armed QB with Zwick/Tate and a run or scrambling QB with T.Smith/DR. Was just pointing out that DR and T. Smith arent really that much alike. Doesn't really have anything to do with the topic though.
BTW, dont drink and post.
no no, i don't WANT tate/drob to be Zwick/Troy Smith... Zwick was a bust.
I'm just saying that the comparison is that Tate's the early favorite - a highly touted thrower who seems to have the edge right now. DRob certainly could become a T Smith-esque player (undersized, but w/ a strong arm)if tate ends up being any kind of a bust.
What I hope happens is that Tate lives up to his billing, and if Denard's half the athlete people are making him into, he's gonna see the field one way or another. This whole "coaching staff lied to Denard if he's not a QB" shit is pretty dumb. Seems to me, Denard would happily accept a Harvin-type role if it means PT.
how would you know what denard would or would not happily accept?
correct me if i'm wrong - but didn't he come to michigan because florida couldn't guarantee him that he would be a QB there?
None of us know, you are correct. But none of us really know the second part of your post... that UM guaranteed him he'd be a QB and Florida did not. One thing I am sure of... he'll have every opportunity to compete at QB from the start. If he is switched, it will be because he didn't win that competition, and he can help the team at another position.
that's why i said "correct me if i'm wrong". i thought that there was verified info (e.g. quote from denard) saying that the reason why he chose michigan over florida was because of position.
i guess i just have an objection to people arbitrarily trying to decide the future of this kid based on what benefits them the most. it's the putting on of the "what will make my team the most awesomest" blinders. i can just see this train of thought going down the road of "if denard doesn't switch positions, then he's selfish" or "the coaching staff are all morons" etc... it's very meat-markety - we get all wide-eyed over athletic ability and then try to plug that player into wherever makes it easiest to brag to sparty about how sweet we'll be in 2 years regardless of that kid's situation.
ah...my mistake
Troy Smith wasn't Vince Young, but he was still plenty fast. He ran for something like 150 yards on us in 2004. He started out as very much a dual-threat QB and only gradually developed into a pocket passer.
wasn't the reason that he even decided to come to michigan because he was promised an opportunity to compete as a QB? i'd be really surprised if we saw him at any position other than QB this year. actually, i HOPE we don't, because that would mean that the coaching staff lied to him...
i just picture forcier/robinson as a rich man's minnesota game sheridan/feagin.
Since none of us really knows what was "promised" or what will transpire between now and the end of the season, isn't it a bit presumptuous to suggest that if Robinson plays something other than QB it means he was lied to??
well, maybe a bit presumptuous the way i phrased it. i guess what i meant was that i was under the impression that the reason why spurned florida for michigan is that florida was recruiting him as a WR/maybeQB whereas michigan was recruiting him as a QB and he wanted to be a QB. given that, it wouldn't make sense for him to move to another position.. because why did he even come to michigan then?
I'm too lazy to google around for this, but I'm 95% sure Rod Smith said that they told Robinson, "Florida wants to put in a package for you. We know you're a QB and we'll play you there."
FWIW, I believe he'll play nothing but QB for at least two years. Michigan just doesn't have the depth to have a viable QB practicing at other positions.
it seems to me, that if he doesn't win the QB job, that he'd either a.) transfer to a school where he's guaranteed a QB job, or b.) put himself in a position to use his athleticism in other ways as a "slash" kind of player, rather than sit on the bench as a 2nd stringer.
WHo knows exactly what the kid was promised, but if it was a "chance to compete" @ QB, that's very open-ended.
We'll find out soon what the coaches see in him, I guess. I think a basic way of summarizing this discussion is that if Tate wins the starting job, Denard's purported athleticism should get him on the field somehow sooner than later. if Denard beats out Tate, that's awesome as well.
... but is he fast? Like, at all? I'm curious because no one has mentioned this at all.
pros: denard smooth FAST runner, high velocity PASSER, has nice DREADS
cons: needs get STRONGER, improve pad LEVEL
just epinion
FAIL by me
GBMW is saying that Denard Robinson is an excellent athlete and very fast, but Tate Forcier is a more accurate passer. WOW. They must be real insiders to know that.
Personally I would prefer Tate as the starter right now. After watching one bad throw after another to wide open receivers I want the most accurate QB out there.
I believe Tate will ultimately be our starter for the year with Denard getting 6-10 snaps a game once the season is fully on its way i.e. Big Ten games. We will probably see Tate and Denard split a lot of time in non-conference games and Denard playing the whole game against Delaware State.
I agree with most of your predictions, though if we have learned one thing over the past couple of seasons, it is to not take any team for granted. Whoever is the usual starter come Delaware State time will get the start then. The unusual starter may get the majority of playing time, but only after the match-up becomes actually, decidedly one-sided.
I see your point about the Delaware State game. After the past two years we can not take any team for granted.
I am excited to see what our offense is going to be like this year with two true mobile QB's.
Tate also enrolled early and Denard didn't. That could be beneficial to Tate.
I've got more inside info if anyone wants some...
I am just waiting for the day that we go reverse wild cat and stick 3 mobile QBs in the backfield. I could live with a backfield of Tate and Gardner on his right and Denard on his left.
Until all three get hurt in the same game, then I am totally against this idea.
Yeah. For this season I would love to see both Tate, Denard, and Minor all on the field together; it'd be a nightmare to defend against - two of the guys could pass it, and all three could end up running it. (It'd be even more fun if both Tate and Denard were in a position that either one could take the snap)
Its also something which I hope I never see - since the possibilities for both viable quarterbacks going down on the same play exists... maybe I'll try it on NCAA.
Great idea for a lineup. Could you imagine if the first time they did this they went with a quick pass - from Minor!? Then it would especially be difficult to defend, not knowing who would throw or run. Crazy, unlikely, but fun to think about. Nonetheless, having Tate and Denard or Tate and Gardner or Denard and Gardner back there would be/will be crazy.