Cool (albeit meaningless) tidbit about the CFP this year: The NCG will also be for the Lineal Championship

Submitted by Qmatic on December 14th, 2023 at 11:02 AM

As we attempt to get through these last couple weeks before the Holidays and approach the Rose Bowl, I found a pretty cool tidbit that will occur once we beat Alabama and play for the National Championship.

I am a huge boxing fan and have always looked to The Ring magazine as the true champion of the world. While The Ring doesn't always 100% adhere to the Lineal Championship, it is the best measure in my opinion of who the one true champion is (for the record it still is Tyson Fury despite Olexander Usyk holding more belts). The idea of the "Lineal Champion" is that in order to be the champion, you have beat the champ ("the guy who beat the guy").

Hatch Rankings has the all-time Lineal National Championship dating back to Rutgers victory in 1869 over Princeton all the way to present time. The current Lineal Champion is Washington and they have defended that title since beating Oregon last November. 

With Texas playing Washington in the Sugar Bowl, the winner of that game will be holding the lineal championship when they face the Rose Bowl champion. This will be the first time since 2020 that the National Championship Game will coincide with the Lineal Championship; and it will be Michigan's first time holding the belt since 2003 when we beat Purdue and held onto it until the Rose Bowl vs #1 USC that year.

https://www.hatchrankings.com/lineal.html

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Qmatic

December 14th, 2023 at 11:32 AM ^

Yes that is true. Unfortunately Georgia ended up AP Champions that year.

I have to ask Mr. Anthony Little, I noticed you have 6 MGoPoints despite being a member for over 14 years: how is your heart doing from that contact wound you provided yourself? Still in-contact with your brother? I hear he's coming.

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Wallaby Court

December 14th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^

Out of curiosity, how do lineal championships work in boxing? I see two major complications. First, boxers compete in different weight classes that may not have overlapping competitors. Can you reconcile a line of welterweight champions with a line of heavyweight champions that does not overlap? Second, boxers can retire. What happens to the lineal championship if its holder retires without a final defeat?

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Qmatic

December 14th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^

In those situations, like the most recent example in Heavyweight came when Lennox Lewis retired, the vacant championship occurs when there is a consensus #1 #2 or both fighters are at least ranked #1 in a major boxing publication rankings (The Ring for the longest time was the gold standard). It remained vacant until Wladimir Klitschko defeated Ruslan Chageav in 2009. He held the title until losing to Fury in 2015.

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Blue@LSU

December 14th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^

Apparently I'm not that bright and I need someone to explain this to me.

Why is Washington the Lineal Champ? If Alabama beat the previous champion (Georgia), wouldn't 'Bama be the Lineal Champ?

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superstringer

December 14th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^

No, I think this is saying, go back to the very original championship… that team owned the Belt.  Then the first team to beat that team got the Belt. And so on, year after year.  The Belt couod change hands multiple times in a single sesson, and we are talking a hundred seasons or something. The Belt reflects that initial title, and no other actual championship since then.  Its on coincidence the Belt will be at stake in these playoffs. 

Frankly, its just dumb luck the Belt isnt in the hands of Iowa State or Fresno State or something.

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Qmatic

December 14th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^

It takes the boxing approach basically since Rutgers won in 1869, every game after that the winner had was a defense of that championship. When LSU retained the belt from Clemson in the 2019 title game, they had it until their next loss, which was to Miss St. Then the next team that beat Miss St had it. Eventually Oregon was able to capture it last season and had it until Washington beat them, and Washington has yet to lose since then.

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superstringer

December 14th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^

So in fact, you could do this for EACH championship. There could be a Belt for the 1944 NCAA championship; and one for the 1983 title, and so on. So there are over a century's worth of these Belts floating around. One team could have a bunch of them now. Who knows.

In fact, some of these Belts could be in the FCS... including the 1997 Belt.  Because UM won the 1997 AP championship. And, um, we passed that Belt in The Horror to a team who carried down to the FCS, and whomever next beat Appy State that year (or was it the following year) would have acquired the 1997 Belt. You'd have to trace through all results to know if it ever came back "up" to the FBS or remains in the FCS, or who knows, might have been passed down to Div. II or something by now.

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NittanyFan

December 14th, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^

Somebody once did the work on that ---- eventually they all wind up converging to the "true, right from the start lineal" belt.

In the case of the 1997 Michigan Belt --- it would have converged with the Lineal Belt by the start of 2001.  Funnily enough, Michigan would have lost it to ND to start 1998 but gotten it back just a few weeks later!  Miami would have eventually gotten their hands on both belts with their 2001 season opening win against PSU.

1997 Michigan Belt:

  • In 1998: Michigan --> ND --> MSU --> Michigan --> OSU
  • In 1999: OSU --> Miami (doesn't have the lineal belt, NC State of all teams does) --> PSU --> Minnesota --> Oregon
  • In 2000: Oregon --> Wisconsin --> NW --> Purdue --> MSU --> PSU
  • In 2001: PSU --> Miami (who at this time had the lineal belt too).

So, in a way, in the CFP Michigan is playing to "re-acquire" their 1997 belt too.

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NittanyFan

December 14th, 2023 at 11:53 AM ^

Even if Michigan did have the Belt at the end of 2006 --- it would have cycled back to D-1A/FBS by the start of 2008 (Michigan --> App State --> Wofford --> Elon --> Furman --> Virginia Tech).

And from there, it would have converged with the linear belt within a year (2008 regular season: Virginia Tech --> BC --> UNC --> Maryland --> Florida St --> Florida).  Florida won the linear belt from Oklahoma in the 2008 BCS Championship Game.

With (1) the FCS playoffs, and (2) Enough FBS v FCS games in a season, an FBS level belt shouldn't stay at FCS level too long. 

-----

Now to your point on DII --- that WOULD be a problem in terms of it cycling back it up. 

2005 provides an example.  If you took all the FBS teams from the start of 2005, their belts have all converged to the lineal belt (Washington). 

EXCEPT FOR ONE.  FBS Louisiana-Monroe lost to a FCS team to start 2005.  Montana State ended that year with ULM's belt: they also missed the FCS playoffs that year.  Montana State started 2006 by beating Colorado, but then incredibly lost their next game to a D2 team (Chadron State)!  It stayed at the D2 level until 2015, before moving back up to FCS (Sam Houston State).  It stayed at the FCS level until 2022, before moving back up to FBS (Arizona beating NDSU).  It's back at the FBS level but hasn't converged with the linear (Arizona lost it but has gotten it back).

Net: neither of the 2005 or 2006 FBS belts/imperalism maps have consolidated with the linear championship.  Pretty unusual, but that's what can happen if things slip to the distant D2 kingdoms. 

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sdogg1m

December 14th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^

The bad news is Washington has taken the lineal title from us twice during the time.

Let reclaim that lineal title and stop Washington's reign of tyranny over us.

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stephenrjking

December 14th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^

Meaningless but fun.

There is a guy who put 20+ years into tracking the “college hockey championship belts” on USCHO.com. He also tracked separate belts for various conferences, former conferences, and I believe state level belts (eg the different d1 Michigan schools). He just hung up his skates this past year.

Since the season ends with conference tournaments and then a national tournament, the national champion invariably held the national belt, though it is theoretically possible for that not to occur in a conference where not every team makes the playoff.

College football is a much different playing field, and thus the lineal belt will look much different and in a way more fascinating. 

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NittanyFan

December 14th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^

CFB imperalism (a staple on the reddit site) is the same sort of concept.

You're right, hockey and basketball inevitably converge on one team "holding everyone else's belts" at the end of every season, because of the tournament structure.

College football, that rarely happens (at least over the course of a single season).  The belt that Purdue started with 2023 with?  Army has it now.  The belt that Boston College started 2023 with?  South Dakota State (!!) has it now.

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