Coaching Staff diversity?
I know this won't be a popular post, but so far the coaching staff hires have been with the exception of Fred Jackson all white. I just want the best coaching staff but I think part of that is diversity. There is two slots left to go and I fully expect at least one hire to be a minority. This has to be brought up in sport dominated by minority athletes but minority coaches have a very hard time breaking in.
January 19th, 2011 at 7:33 AM ^
I'm not surprised a handfull of you guys posting here DO see it as a problem.
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<br>Btw, be carefull up on that high horse of yours. Be sure to grip tight.
January 19th, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^
Well done. Always an intelligent response to a comment you disagree with: "Well looky here at mister high and mighty thinkin' he's better than us with all that fancy talk!"
January 19th, 2011 at 2:19 AM ^
Maybe Hoke should hire somebody of every skin color and every ethnicity? He should hire a Hispanic coach, an Asian coach, an African-American coach, a Pacific Islander coach, a Middle Eastern coach, a Jewish coach, etc.
Why just stop at diversity of skin color and ethnicity?
Maybe Hoke should have a diverse staff with a coach of from every state, every country and every continent. Maybe Hoke should have a diverse staff with great coaches, so-so coaches and some crappy coaches Maybe Hoke should hire a bald coach, one with brown hair, one with blond hair, one with red hair and one with grey hair. And he should make sure he hires one with brown eyes, one with blue eyes and one with hazel eyes. And he shouldn't forget to hire a tall coach, an average height coach, a short coach and "a little person" coach. He should also make sure he hires a young coach, a middle aged coach and a senior citizen coach. And he should also make sure half the hires are women.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Have I left anybody out?
Oh yeah, he needs to hire both left-handed and right-handed coaches.
And coaches with two legs, one leg and no legs.
Whew... let me know if I left anybody out.
January 19th, 2011 at 3:19 AM ^
YOU'RE A HEIGHTIST!!!
Tall people are under represented. It needs to be:
One tall. One kinda tall. One average. One short. One little person.
Also, what happens when the NCAA hears about this? Having like 126 coaches must be worse than extra stretching...right? Then again, we'll probably be able to defer punishment for the bowl game, so it'll work out.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:08 AM ^
Close talkers? Maybe. Long talkers? Depends on whether they're also high talkers. Low talkers? Eh, that might not work too well. Re-gifters? That could be touchy. Sidlers? Maybe. Double dippers? They're a no go. Tall, lanky doofuses with hair like the Bride of Frankenstein? Probably wise to avoid them if they're suffering from a chronic case of swimmer's ear.
And please, no anti-dentites. Denard's smile has to remain perfect.
Serenity Now!
January 21st, 2011 at 1:04 AM ^
You are right, assuming we could find qualified minority candidates is crazy talk. It's a slippery slope that leads to hiring women or people with disabilities as coaches. We should only stick with white males to be safe, since we obviously won't be ale to include everyone in coaching searches.
January 19th, 2011 at 2:23 AM ^
It the players are uncomfortable with the lack of diversity, then it is an issue. It goes without saying that if the coaches are able to relate to, teach, and convey a sense of comfort to them they will be fine. They also must command respect and be able to instill discipline on the team. If this things are not happening it wont matter what color they are, they will have lost at one of the important things that is needed in being a coach...teaching them to be men! Yes...I know it is about winning games. You don't get fired for winning...but this board should understand after recent events that there is more to life than that...if not the last few years we would all be in therapy!
January 19th, 2011 at 2:30 AM ^
Diversity, I believe it was the name of an old wooden ship used in the civil war era.
January 19th, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
Has already been used in this very thread.
January 19th, 2011 at 5:12 AM ^
that is completely legitimate. Clearly most people don't have the sense to realize that it is a valid issue to point out.
Go Blue!
January 19th, 2011 at 5:43 AM ^
Should't matter does not equal doesn't matter.
The fact is, the majority of players we (or almost any program) recruits are black. Having someone (or more than one) person from a similar ethno-cultural background that a recruit can relate to on a non-football level DOES make a difference in many cases, small or big.
Another fact: black coaches are massively underrepresented in college football, especially considering that the majority of the coaching pool comes from former players. Whether or not you think the university should be playing an active role in remedying this is a debate probably best left untouched for this board.
In any case, I'd bet that race will play at least some factor into the hiring decision on the next 2 asst coaches, whether we think it's right or not.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:31 AM ^
January 19th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
Black players make up what, 45% of college football players at the D1 level? And something like 60-65% of starters?
If their are more white players who aren't playing and are basically just learning the game, who have no hope of moving on to the NFL or pro football at any level...if they loved football, wouldn't they take an earlier and deeper interest coaching? And thus overtime become more qualified than the majority of more talented black players who actually spent most of their time learning to be better players? And this is only at the D1 level. Didn't Bill Belicheck play D3 ball? In fact a read a list of the most impressive playing resumes of NFL coaches. The vast majority of them weren't D1 stars or even starters, black or white. That's right, most of them were lower level college players who barely played at all. But if you love something and you want to stick around it, you're going to actively go into in the only way you can: coaching.
I would bet that this contributes to the dearth just as much as anything else.
(Note: I have no idea if this is true, but considering there is no real way to know why their aren't more black coaches, its just as valid).
Also, black coaches HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL at the college level. This is not to say, "ah, one black coach has failed, therefore they will all fail!", but the truth is, because of collective black failure at coaching, there has been a failure to gain traction in the numbers. Shannon, Willingham, Williams, Dorrell...they all failed in their big moves. If they'd been successful, their would be more black coaches, due to their ability to win games, thus keeping their jobs and giving a base for the numbers to build upon. Most black coaches have had the same tenure as your RR and your Weis: 3-5 years of mediocrity, mixed in with some hope, but ultimately did not get the job done. And we all know what happened to RR and Weis.
P.S. why is it okay to pick and choose "representation?". So you don't have a problem with blacks being overrepresented as players? What about as college basketball coaches? NBA coaches? NFL coaches? What about the lack of black hockey players? On top of that, Michigan's hockey staff looks Jim Gaffigan-esque in their paleness.
January 19th, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^
Here's the thing: the fact that you can honestly talk about "black collective failure" is itself evidence for the existence of racism.
There is no such thing as "white collective failure".
January 19th, 2011 at 1:22 PM ^
It is just to say that black coaches have not succeeded at the college level, unlike their NFL counterparts. This means that rather than adding black coaches to the coaches who have already achieved success and thus increase the number of black coaches (for instance, Raheem Morris to Mike Tomlin and Lovie Smith), you get the same hire/fire that you would for white coaches who fail (RR, Weiss, Robinson at Syracuse, etc.). However, because this country likes to invent racial problems, it is seen as racism that the number of black head coaches in not proportional to the number of players or the population. What is truly hysterical, is the same people that bring attention to this issue never comment on the fact that Hispanics make up 14% (and probably more) of the American population, but are woefully underrepresented in college football. The same goes for the Asian population. It's only a big deal to writers and instigators like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or Jemele Hill on ESPN because CFB is a big time moneymaker and attention-grabber. They could care less that there are hardly any black players or coaches in NCAA hockey...but BCS level football? That will cause a stir on all the front pages.
January 19th, 2011 at 6:56 AM ^
I can tell because of the way his former players talk about him. His problem is that he thinks all of his players are Maize, and makes them practice until they are Blue.
January 19th, 2011 at 7:07 AM ^
That most people at saying Here and also in the work place is that hiring someone of minority just for the sake of hiring a minority is a dangerous precedent to set.
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<br>You're saying that as an employer that you're more concerned about what activists are going to say. As an employee you're saying that you're willing to take a job you didn't earn by any other means than by the color of your skin.
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<br>This is not a statement to disregard minorities, just one to be realistic that when you yell for diversity sometimes you won't be able to hear the sense of your words over the obnoxiousness of the volume of your voice.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:05 AM ^
Hiring anyone who isn't qualified for a certain position for the sake of fulfilling some requirement is not good.
Understanding that biases come into play and not adjusting for those biases is also a problem. Bringing in your "friends" from SDSU when there might have been a better coach for one of those positions (who happens to be diverse) might have been a better call.
While I do agree on diversity I was taken back that diversity, in this case, referred specifically to a black person. So I don't agree with calling for diversity and then not being diverse in your definition of what diversity means.
Also I have a problem with the OP because he somehow disregards Fred Jackson as being a coach (i.e., "if you remove Fred Jackson from the staff then there are no black coaches" - paraphrasing).
January 19th, 2011 at 7:26 AM ^
One could just as easily look at it this way...
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<br>"I know this won't be a popular post, but so far the player roster is made up of mostly black kids. I just want the best team possible but I think part of that is diversity. There is a number of openings left in this recruiting class and I fully expect at least some of them to be filled by white players. This has to be brought up in sport dominated by white coaches but white players have a very hard time breaking in."
January 19th, 2011 at 2:47 PM ^
If "one" were unserious and hadn't thought much about the world that they inhabit or race then, sure, "one" could look at it this way.
January 19th, 2011 at 7:37 AM ^
seeing as how Scout had this thread a few days ago.
2) All of the position coaches aren't filled yet.
January 19th, 2011 at 7:45 AM ^
Yeah I wanted Ron English too /s
January 19th, 2011 at 7:59 AM ^
As a man in a mixed race marriage (wife Venezulean Mestizo) the diversity of the staff does not upset me as much as when a Redneck asks my wife how to make a tortilla.
Seriously, the only way this is an issue is soley based upon the opinions of the players.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:09 AM ^
The lack of diversity on the coaching staff is hardly surprising considering that the Hoke hire is motivated by a nostalgic return to the old Michigan Man days. If you're going to limit yourself to hiring candidates from your own old boys club then it's going to be difficult to be progressive about anything whether it's ethnic diversity or offensive philosophy.
On the one hand, I don't really think race should play any factor in the makeup of the staff. Yet when you survey the big picture landscape of college football, it is rather stunning to see the stereotypical old white men filling out nearly all the roles at the coveted University of Michigan football program.
Extend and pretend. The rah-rah nostalgia is pleasing a lot of fans right now. But in a few years it might prove to be a source of embarrassment and pain.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:09 AM ^
is interviewing a cadre of awesome black bald guys for the last two positions.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:13 AM ^
OSU only has 2 minority coaches. So I guess this topic is useless....
January 19th, 2011 at 11:50 AM ^
OSU has more than two minority coaches, even with Darrell Hazell leaving to become head coach at Kent State.
In terms of the front office, Athletic Director Gene Smith is black, and several of the assistant/associate ADs are also minorities.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:24 AM ^
Your moral superiority is duly noted. Now you better hurry along to your Women's Studies class.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:14 AM ^
....and there's not enough blacks in the MLB....Blah blah blah.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:19 AM ^
I'm a believer in best-man-for-the-job, and never once had wondered "what is the racial makeup of this new coaching staff?". Maybe that's very white of me.
But, just being honest here, and somebody probably beat me to it, with a team made up largely of black student athletes, the presence of some black coaches will most definitely aid the recruiting efforts. Don't you think?
January 19th, 2011 at 8:20 AM ^
Wow does this fall in to the no politics clause? I really think they are hiring the best coaches black or white.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:23 AM ^
There are plenty of qualified black coaches and former players to consider. You don't have to hire them, but they deserve a chance. And if anyone thinks that the black recruits — some being from predominately black areas — dont consider a coach's ability to relate to them to be a significant factor in choosing a school, you are mistaken.
I absolutely think winning takes precedent overall, but the truth is many players and coaches are not given a chance to succeed. When you see examples like Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin, and Lovie Smith in the NFL, and think back to what the NFL looked like 10-15 years ago, there's proof that you don't have to "sacrifice quality" by going after the a diverse candidate.
January 19th, 2011 at 9:19 AM ^
Ron English? Man can't even whip up a good season at Eastern Michigan University but keeps getting his name brought up for Michigan only because he is black?
Nane one guy better, who is also black, than English, who is also currently in top 50 football.
Do you really think Mike Hart would ever be mentioned as a '10 years down the road' coach if he wasn't black? The man can't control his mouth in public--not just when he was an undergrad but now.
I really don't know why there are very few decent black coaches compared to the number of black players. I do know promoting them when they aren't good is stupid and harmful to both the game and the black coaches who are good.
This is a side story, but totally on point. There is a much older Michigan grad where I teach. He was in grad school at Michigan when the medical school had their black student protests. A number of blacks students in that school had failed out, so all the black students chained themselves to the doors until the U gave in, let them back in, and stopped failing minority students out. They also now provide special classes for the black students so they can pass their Step One and Step Two license exams.
The older guy explained that since then he will never be treated by a black doctor--because you never know. They could be fine, but there is a large chance they aren't.
January 19th, 2011 at 9:51 AM ^
Wow.
Ron English can't even whip up a good season at Eastern Michigan University but keeps getting his name brought up for Michigan only because he is black?"
Huh? I can't tell what your question is here. But Vince Lombardi would have a hard time "whipping up a good season at EMU." It should not be an FBS team. I think most people agree with this. However, I think Ron English is getting mentions for Michigan for the same reason Scott Loeffler and Brady Hoke got mentions: because he used to coach here. He's a "Michigan Man." He took a crap job at EMU after a middling performance as DC at Louisville (under, to be sure, a coach who was inferior to him) and has played the hand that he was dealt there.
Nane one guy better, who is also black, than English, who is also currently in top 50 football.
Do you really think Mike Hart would ever be mentioned as a '10 years down the road' coach if he wasn't black? The man can't control his mouth in public--not just when he was an undergrad but now.
The older guy explained that since then he will never be treated by a black doctor--because you never know.
January 19th, 2011 at 10:45 AM ^
If the guy was such a racist, why didnt he have a problem being treated by black people before the incident in question?
January 19th, 2011 at 11:01 AM ^
Here is why you would win this argument at work, and you can't win it here.
1. The racist attack. Guess what? That only works when you can threaten someone's job. It won't shut me up and it don't cover up the truth.
2. The grammar attack. It don't make you right, it makes you seem pissy. At work you could make the argument win because at work folks get paid to write correctly. Not so much here.
3. English plays in the MAC same as the rest of the MAC. CMU does a pretty good job a lot of the time.
4. Sure, Hart is just any other player. Same/same as all the others, the media just happens to pimp him for coach for no other reason...wait. Isn't there a recent Michigan QB who is actually working his way up the coaching ranks and the press is ignoring it? What was his name...?
5. Your medical diversity desires...When your wife is really sick, you never wonder? I ask, but I know enough to know what a good residency is. If the doctor is suspect and has an FP at some third tier toilet I move on.
January 19th, 2011 at 11:49 AM ^
Nobody's trying to shut you up. Believe me, I can hold my own in an argument with you. But "racist" isn't an attack, it's sometimes just a description. It's a word with a meaning and not one that we should be afraid to use toward someone who says that they will never see a black doctor "because you never know" or someone who affirmatively quotes the aforementioned racist in a thread about football hires.
As for your other points, they are beneath comment or I've addressed them already. Write clearly next time.
January 21st, 2011 at 1:22 AM ^
+1 man.
Its always somebody defending overtly racist comments that has a problem with being called racist.
January 19th, 2011 at 10:30 AM ^
there's proof that you don't have to "sacrifice quality" by going after the a diverse candidate.
Has anyone actually said that it would?
January 19th, 2011 at 8:25 AM ^
I think in this day and age we should be past the race issue and looking at people as people and not by the color of their skin. The thing is if we constantly bring it up we will never get past it. I don’t think BH even gave it a thought, he just went out to get the best coaches he could and it didn’t matter what the color of their skin was. Until I read this I didn’t look at the new staff and say we have 5 white coaches and 3 black and 2 Hispanic, I don’t care they are all equal in my eyes and I hope they are great at what they do.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:26 AM ^
You drew sharpton?
January 19th, 2011 at 8:37 AM ^
January 19th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
Look we just got the freaking Baltimore Ravens DC. Go away Ron!! Would you rather we hireyou or Randy Shannon, a guy who has never been outside of the city of Miami, YTM, in his entire life?
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<br>So if we wanted to hire Scott Leoffler as a QB coach you would not be happy with that?
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January 19th, 2011 at 9:17 AM ^
Diversity of skin colors, of political thought, of economic status, of ethnic heritage, of height, of football philosophies?
Athletics is about one ting, achievement and performance on and off the field based on competition. The racial make-up of a team should count for zero, nothing, nada, only how they perform. Don't care if the coaches are all Chinese provided they win at a high percentage pace and beat OSU, MSU, ND.......
January 19th, 2011 at 9:23 AM ^
Maybe we can get Norm Chow as QB coach to represent Asians.
January 19th, 2011 at 9:27 AM ^
I agree with an above poster. This has turned political and needs to be locked.
January 19th, 2011 at 10:19 AM ^
Sure. Let's just sweep it under the table and there won't be any problem anymore....
January 19th, 2011 at 12:15 PM ^
Some idiot up there already called for this to come to an end so we can get back to happy cat pictures.
Sadly, I think there's a large contingent of posters who more or less agree with him.
January 19th, 2011 at 10:54 PM ^
January 19th, 2011 at 9:32 AM ^