CC: Marcus Ray's thoughts on Harbaugh, Miles and Bret (not duplicative of prior board post)

No, he did it the right way. There are too many people on here who derive some strange pleasure from being the first to post something. This post is far more informative and helpful and should be the model for sharing news.

of what Matt thinks it right

Oregon and Philadelphia are both south of Canada.

Seriously.  It's like he's somehow missed the last 4 OSU games.  Or the Appalachian State game.  Or every game ever against a mobile QB.  How does this garbage possibly continue to exist?

I was hoping someone else had picked up on this too. I have no preference on offensive scheme (different ways to skin a cat), but when Ray said the spread doesn't work in the north, I starting yelling in my car.

Also, I don't understand the notion that Miles may not do as well with less talent at Michigan. We see it time and time again in the college game: coaching makes all the difference regardless of talent level. As an example, Lane Kiffin had some very talented players at USC (same or better levels than LSU), but they underperformed. Miles sustained Saban level results at LSU over the long term. He's a great coach and trying to argue that points to more of a personal dislike than reviewing the facts.

Dont want to be heretical but Ray's comments increasingly come off as self serving justifications of his own history and, to a lesser extent, a justification of a bygone era of football. A Big Ten analyst dismissing the spread while stressing the need to run the ball is incredibly damning and I wonder to what degree mindsets like Ray's within the ranks of former players creates the toxic environment we've all heard referenced for so very long. 

All that spread happy stuff, get that out of here, it works only in warm climates. I guess OSU not losing a regular season Big 10 game in three years is just an illusion.

I've seen the spread work in Windsor and its glorious.

But we are too far north to make it work...

Ray also said somewhere, I think BTN, that Hoke won in 2011 with LC's players,  not Rich Rod's.  I have a feeling I can guess where his disdain for the spread comes from.

when you stop and realize that the spread pioneers came from the Midwest (Randy Walker, Urban Meyer), the Northeast (Chip Kelly) and West Virginia, which sure as hell ain't warm and Southern. 

But yeah, it can't work in bad weather. Obviously you have to try and recruit pro style passers to try to throw on point passes deep down the field in the cold and wind to succeed in the Big 10. 

Not only that...last I checked, you can actually run the ball out of the spread and pistol and any other spread type of offense. Heck, we ran the ball pretty well in the 2008 Capital One Bowl game vs. Florida when we went to that spread-style design for that lone day.

The spread works at Ohio State and Bowling Green, but not at Toledo or Michigan.  The spread stops working north of Perrysburg.  It's a scientific fact.

you said this twice because its right. Ray is a dinosaur and I've heard his Al Bundy Stories about the teams he was on 100 times.   When i hear him on the radio, I change it.

You can say that again!

offense is that it ran the ball a particular way to suit a system Bo liked. In fact, Michgian frequently changed its offense under Bo, based mostly on whatever seemed to work best at the time across country. Michigan ran option, wishbone, fullhouse and split backfields. It ran formations with two tight ends or more under Harbaugh. Watch his tributes by Wolverine Historian and how Michigan's bread and butter plays were passes to crossing tight ends, backs out of the backfield and occasional deep throws.

It was under Moeller and Carr that Michigan's offense evolved from a dominant running game with quarterback options to a dropback passing attack.

Bo was concerned with results and production and effiiciency, and believed running the ball was crucial but he wasn't tied to a particular system in running the ball. He felt that the system ought to fit the players you have on hand and best matches their proficiecy and skill level.

So, Harbaugh becomes a dropback passer in the NFL because that it what the system was among most teams.

Making certain guys conform to a system instead of allowing their strengths to enhance whatever offense they are best at running makes them more efficient and effective.

And, of course, we saw how the failure to reconcile this has worked out for Michigan with two spread quarterbacks forced to become dropback passers to suit a particular blocking scheme and system. The difference between this and the Michigan past is defining yourself and then recruiting to whatever style you run without change.

Moe if you come back to this thread do you have any feel on the CC?  You had some info quicker than anyone on the AD situation.

I'm not sure this is actually true.  I think as long as a player can qualify based on NCAA standards Michigan will take them.  I know that Hoke tended to not recruit kids that he thought were marginal to qualify, but I understood that as more of a preference (not wanting to waste time / a spot) and not an institutional higher standard.  Unless the presumption is that LSU has some UNC type deal going on to keep athletes eligible that Michigan doesn't have.

I could be wrong, but this is my understanding.

So, is OSU going to have trouble consistently running it?  If so, I must have missed the start of their backslide.

Pro-style is really spread to pass now.  I'm not sold on read-option due to broken quarterback syndrome, but it's hard to argue the success of throwing to multiple targets.

Since Les Miles became head coach at LSU the average recruiiting rank for Rivals is #9 for LSU and #11 for UM.  #11 for UM is with 2 coaching transition years thrown in (07, 11)

So basically 1 (or 2) players in a class of 22 under Les would be a 3 star instead of a 4 star.  How would we survive? 

Lots of reasons to question Les but the massive drop off in recruiting is not an issue.  Dude is one of the top 10 brand names in CFB - every kid knows who he is.  No one knew who Hoke was nationally before he showed up here.  Les would bring both school brand and his own personal brand, something only a handful of coaches can do.

That said I dont think Les gets offered for various other reasons.