CC: To Les or Not to Les/Is Les More?

Submitted by James Burrill Angell on
So I got the opportunity to watch LSU beat Ole Miss tonight. Let's assume for a moment that for whatever reason (wife doesn't want to leave Bay Area/He doesn't want to leave the NFL/he doesn't want to work under Brandon/Oakland gets him before Schlissel gets off his rear end) that Jim Harbaugh doesn't come to Ann Arbor and that John Harbaugh doesn't either nor would Mullen from Miss St. If that logically turns eyes to Les Miles AND whatever off-field "personal" issues that kept him out of Ann Arbor in the past can be overcome, is he the savior? I think it's probably safe to say he can't be worse than Hoke. That said, his teams haven't been ones that have overwhelmingly outscored other teams. They've won with defense and recruiting very high end southern athletes to play that defense. I've heard all the other criticisms (his age, the fact that his biggest accomplishment was done with leftover Saban players) but my primary question is whether a Miles led team will be that much better on offense than what we're seeing now?
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Leonhall

October 26th, 2014 at 7:47 AM ^

Les miles would be an upgrade over hoke, that's easy, however, his offenses have been iffy as well. That being said, he's not coming with Dave Brandon at the helm. If he would, it could be a bridge until harbaugh finally realizes the nfl isn't for him. I just don't see miles coming here with Brandon around. With Brandon, our best bet is stoops or maybe chip Kelly would come, but I even doubt that.


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Sideline

October 26th, 2014 at 11:11 AM ^

Idk if his offenses are that bad... Last night a 10-7 win against arguably the nations best defense...?

His offense looks like an evolved version of the Schembechler offense. He uses a power run with a little 'spread' twist. Every game I've ever watched at LSU, he's been in. I wish I could say the same for Hoke.

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Voltron is Handsome

October 26th, 2014 at 8:55 AM ^

Yup. I feel so badly for these players who should have had better careers at this point. Look at Gardner and Barrett. JT looks like a better QB than our former five-star RS senior QB; it's amazing and all coaching/scheme.

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Ghost of Fritz…

October 26th, 2014 at 9:30 AM ^

...I realize that a lot of people will hate to hear that and would rather talk about the importance of getting a coach that can install a modern offensive scheme. 

But the reality is that both are necessary.  It is not either/or.  It is both. 

If Michigan wants to be a top ten team again, they need a coach that can play smart football, but also a coach that can get them sto stop beatng themselves with so many mental errors and failures of basic techniques and skills.

If the next coach can just get Michigan to play sound football, and to stop beating themselves with mental errors and poor technique, then Michigan will get back to the 9-3 level. 

Miles and his staff (if they come with him) could probably do that.

But is that enough?  There is really no reason that Michigan should not be at the level OSU has been at over the last several years. 

But I doubt that Miles and his crew can do enough on 'smart football' facet (at least on the offensive side of the ball) to get to that level.

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James Burrill Angell

October 26th, 2014 at 8:09 AM ^

Let's go with your point and take the thread in a different direction......I mention people like Harbaughs and Les because there is a connection and somewhat logical reason they might come to our little tire fire of a situation and take over. As to your comment (1) why on earth would someone already at the helm of a Power 5 program that's winning who had no connection to Michigan come here? The poster above mentioned Stoops or Chip Kelly. Why would they leave for Michigan? It's a pipe dream. Makes no sense. (2) so if you take those guys out then who? There really isn't a hot mid-major coach. Now you're talking coordinators? Truth be told part of this next hire has to be "wow" factor because the fans aren't going to stay for another questionable hire. Brady hoke is a phenomenal human being and as good of a man as I've met in my two decades of service to Michigan. Professionally he just turned out to be exactly what his resume said he was when we hired him , a sub .500 mid- major coach. This digression speaks to one point, the alumni/donor/fan base is going to lose it if we hire a coordinator/mid-major coach. We need a big name. But at this point why would a big name with no prior connection want this job?

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SalvatoreQuattro

October 26th, 2014 at 8:47 AM ^

why someone would come. Money, prestige, and the chance to rebuild a traditional power back into it once was. The opportunity for football immortality is high.

The only question why of wouldn't someone come is related to the internal factions and that is something the AD has to change. A coach can do that too by reaching out to all when he comes. Ingratiate, schmooze...however you want to classify it.Whether that means holding a large gathering  or arranging group meetings it needs to be done. In those meetings the new coach needs to voice his need for their support, but also to give the factions two choice: You are with us or you are against us. Choose.

 

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James Burrill Angell

October 26th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^

I agree 100% with your points as to why Someone would want our job. The problem is that successful head coaches in the Power 5 pretty much have all that plus the security that comes with continuing to do what's working where they are. Why uproot for an unknown? If there is someone who is grossly underpaid or was wildly successful in a lesser place that's one thing but who would that be? I guess my point is that everyone seems to agree who the top choices are (a Harbaugh). After that the top names seem to be guys like Stoops or Mullen or the guy at Stanford. If you assume there is no real motivation for one of those guys to leave, then what? Are you better with Miles, even in the short term, or risking it with another unproven coach?

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Rage

October 26th, 2014 at 9:37 AM ^

that wants to get even with his former employer.  Perhaps this coach is very competitive and as he is currently following a different career, couldn't turn down the chance to come back and see if he still has it.  Perhaps this guy has big time experience and has had great sucess.  Perhaps he knows that he recruits the B1G footprint well and would have everything he needs to make a historic and incredible comeback through the University of Michigan.  

Perhaps this is a dream, but it also answers your question.  Revenge and a chance at glory with a well stocked cupboard.  The right coach could step in and hit the ground running on his way to historic greatness.  

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Ghost of Fritz…

October 26th, 2014 at 10:17 AM ^

...The fact is that big name coaches that are successful at blue blood schools NEVER leave for a chance to coach at a different blue blood school.

Bob Stoops to Michigan?  That would be great.  But the reality is that this sort of thing NEVER happens. 

Can anyone offer an instance where this has ever happened in the last 30 years?  

The reality is as follows:  Blue blood programs in a bad period always end up hiring coaches from the lesser power 5 schools, or from the minor conferences, who have over-performed, [or ocassionally an NFL cast-off].  That is just the way things work.

Florida hired Meyer from Utah (then a mediocre Mountain West program)

USC hired Sarkesian from Washington.

Texas hired Mack Brown from UNC, and then Strong from Louisville (decent team very recently, but not a great program and in a minor football conference until recently.

ND hired Kelly from Cincinnati (and CMU and GVSU).

OSU hired Tressel (YSU), Bruce (Iowa State), and Cooper (ASU).  [And no, OSU hiring Meyer does not count, as he was a TV commentator when hired by OSU].

LSU hired Saban from MSU, and Miles from Ok. State.

Auburn hired Chizik form Iowa State and then Malzahn from Ark. State.

Blue blood programs always end up hiring guys that have over-performed at much lesser programs [or more rarely an NFL cast off--Alabama hire of Saban, Nebraska hire of Callahan, USC hire of Carroll] .

Michigan's hiring of RichRod away from W.Va. and USC's hiring of Kiffen from Tennessee is about as close as it gets in terms of a blue blood program hiring a 'big name' from another big time program. 

But despite the revisionist history that some espouse, that did not work out well for Michigan.  RichRod poduced some of the worst defenses in the history iof Michigan football.  It did not work out for USC either.  Moreover, W.Va. and Tennessee are not really blue blood programs.

Even though I would not put Miles at the top of my personal wish list, if Michigan were to hire him away from LSU it would be a hire absolutely without precedent in the last thirty (or more) years of college football.  That sort if thing just NEVER happens. 

Therefore, the plausible list of candidates includes guys with profiles like Mullen at Miss. St.--huge over-performance at a historically terrible non-elite school. 

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M-Dog

October 26th, 2014 at 11:28 AM ^

I logged in just to Pos this. Best post on this thread. Forget all this P5 pipe dream stuff. We will need to do this like everybody else has. They managed to do it so must we None of the Top Ten teams got their coach directly from another Top Ten team. What planet are we on that we think that is the path we can take? Delusional.

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Ghost of Fritz…

October 26th, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^

Here is the strongest argument in favor of Miles to Michigan:  It is very hard for me to imagine Miles failing at Michigan. 

He is not my personal top choice.  But he would probably have a very high floor at Michigan.

I view him as one of the lower risk, and perhaps the lowest risk, of all the candidates discussed to date, in terms of risk of failure to return Michigan to the Carr 9-3 level. 

The thing about Miles is that you know exactly what you are getting, much more than with guys like Mullin, Doeren, Hermann, etc..  With these types you don't know if their sucess is due to their own coaching qualities, or random factors, such as stars aligning with just the right players (Mullin?) or being under a star HC (Hermann?) . 

Miles, in contrast, has been around as a HC at Ok. State and LSU for a long time.  Is he one of the best in-game coaches?  No.  Is he an elite football guru mind?  No.  Is he as good as Saban?  No. 

But  he has proved himself to be sucessful over a long period of time.  The probability is very high that if he were to come to Ann Arbor he would at least get Michigan back to the 9-3 level. 

At this point reducing the risk of three in a row coaching hires that that fail (RichRod, Hoke, and  name your 2014 young rising star HC or OC) might be important enough to make Miles the best choice for Michigan. 

It could happen, but only becasue he played for Michigan and might want to end his career at his alma matter.  Otherwise, that sort of hire is impossible.

I still think that it is less than 20% probably that Miles woud be offered and accept the Michigan job. 

If it did happen it would have to qualify as the absolute biggest elite-to-elite program HC switch in the last 40 years.

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Ghost of Fritz…

October 26th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^

We need a HC and staff that can instill a culture of perfectionism in execution, a stubborn refusal to lose, and apply smart football in terms of schemes, game plans, and play calling.  An ability to teach and develop players for the chosen schemes is also essential. 

If we get a staff that can do those things, recruiting and winning will take care of itself. 

If there are candidates from lesser programs that have shown they can do these things, they should be on the short list. 

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bighouse22

October 26th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^

The only thing I know for sure is that Hoke has to be replaced after this year.  The fanbase will come unglued if there is another year of Hoke.  At this point I would not rule out anyone including Narduzzi.  

I want an aggressive hardass who can handle the pressure of this job and the ridiculous politics.

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Leonhall

October 26th, 2014 at 8:08 AM ^

1 year ago, after MSU kicked our ass that John Harbaugh would be the coach in 2015. I have no inside information, it was just a prediction I made, again, I have no idea how it will get done, presumably Brandon being fired first, but I'm sticking with my prediction...just to see if I am/was right....haha

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pkatz

October 26th, 2014 at 8:28 AM ^

I'll save you the wait... John Harbaugh will not be our coach in 2015. He's had success in the NFL and has his team at 5-2 this year... why the hell would he come to this tire fire???

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bronxblue

October 26th, 2014 at 8:19 AM ^

I don't think Miles, at his age and with his history, make sense at UM.  His defenses have been very good, but his offenses are always a bit of a trainwreck and I just don't see how he makes sense long-term at Michigan.

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goblue20111

October 26th, 2014 at 8:31 AM ^

If he's willing to come I say take him. At 61 he doesn't make long term sense but if you can get 5-6 seasons out of him where he rights the ship and gets the team competitive, I'm all for it. Hopefully there is a slam dunk hire available when he retires. Unless a Harbaugh is coming or you can pry away someone like Bob Stoops (zero chance of that) I think he's the best known commodity and I would say that regardless of his past ties.


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Darker Blue

October 26th, 2014 at 8:38 AM ^

What makes you think Bob Stitt wouldn't come to MICH? I'm curious. 

 

And we don't want Les Fucking Miles. The guy is 61 years old. He's not an innovative offensive mind. Basically all the only two things the guy has going for him, is that he coached at MICH, and he has good recruiting ties in the south. That's it. 

We need someone a little bit younger, who is going to want to be here for awhile. 

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James Burrill Angell

October 26th, 2014 at 8:34 AM ^

Look, this exercise is existential possibility with Stitt has been amusing and all but COME THE HELL ON. My nephew actually goes to Mines and he tells me the kids who play there would get beat by a top end high school team. That gimmicky stuff works in the way it might in a high school context but lined up in a major college format it seems unlikely. On a secondary note there is no freaking way that any Power 5 athletic director is taking a chance of making that hire. ZERO. As in "No Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber, there is no damned chance!"

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Darker Blue

October 26th, 2014 at 8:42 AM ^

You're the definition of MICHIGAN arrogance. 

"Herr Derr, can't work, won't work, no chance. blah blah blah." 

 

Why not take a fucking shot? A lot of people think Stitt is an offensive genius. I'm not saying he's the right guy. In fact he wouldn't even be in my top 3 canidates, but I'd MUCH rather have him instead of Les Miles. 

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