Calling MgoLawyers: Review of Evidence
Pettiti seemed to take significant issue with Michigan saying they haven’t had time to review the evidence. I re-read our letter and I don’t believe we said that at all. What we said was that Michigan hasn’t had a chance to review much of what the B1G is relying on, namely (or so it seems from Petitti’s letter) the evidence that the NCAA said they have, but haven’t provided to either party and other hearsay. here’s our most relevant quote:
We have not seen or been provided virtually any of the evidence on which you purport to rely in your email. We also have not seen any of the videos allegedly taken for scouting purposes-and as far as we can glean from your email, you have not seen them either. The only evidence you have provided us is: (1) records of Stalions's ticket purchases and transfers, and those tickets' usage at games; (2) one unsolicited tip by an unidentified person who claims to have seen someone filming the sidelines at a game, though we are not able to identify either the tipster or the person they claim was filming the sidelines, or confirm any connection to Stalions; (3) a link to a public article that includes a now-deleted video, which we have not seen, of Stallons on the sidelines of a Michigan game, and (4) a short video titled "UMass vs PSU video" that does not clearly show anything at all.
What say the lawyers to this? Is Petitti’a claim that “it’s troubling we haven reviewed evidence” just a lawyering tactic since it’s pretty clear that’s not what we said.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:26 PM ^
Fuck the evidence. Let's get out of this shitty conference. We can fuck Ohio State in the ass representing the ACC in the playoff every year
November 10th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^
Enough with the ACC shit. There is a $30M+ difference and Michigan doesn't change that.
The fact that so many of you are emotional enough to suggest that Michigan should take less money to prove a point a fucking ridiculous. There is a reason FSU and Clemson are still trying to get out of that league.
Now if Michigan, OSU and ND want to join the ACC...now you're cooking. But y'all are just being overly emotional.
If anything, go independent and sign a contract with FOX for exclusive rights. But that's not going to happen anytime soon and that requires time.
Better off just blowing this entire thing up, it needs to be blown up anyway.
Just give me four, 10-team geography based conferences and a 8-team playoff.
The B1G can remain for the leftovers, MSU and Purdue and can get together for a new rivalry, I'll call it the "Sippy Cup." A new trophy game.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:41 PM ^
It won't be a $30M difference when we leave.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:46 PM ^
This.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:52 PM ^
No...but Michigan doesn't swing it $30M either..
Use your brain. Even if Michigan took $15M from the B1G and brought $15M to the ACC...Michigan has less money.
It's fucking math.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:58 PM ^
Compare the Michigan-PSU ratings tomorrow to the Iowa-Rutgers ratings and get back to us.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
If we left for the ACC, there would be more dominoes to fall. The ACC + U-M would suddenly be a much more attractive landing spot. Not to mention that it'd give us much better recruiting territory.
It'd be worth it to get away from this "leadership."
November 10th, 2023 at 8:42 PM ^
Not trying to pile on here pal, but it's way more dynamic than instant math. This is a short sighted take.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:42 PM ^
If Michigan leaves Big Ten’s deals are torn up. That difference you mention is gone.
Michigan going independent could happen fairly quickly. Plenty of teams still have spots to fill(ND, Utah, Wazz, Oregon State) and plenty others would love to play in the Big House. Current OOC untouched.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:59 PM ^
What don't you all understand by...just because Michigan leaves and hurts the B1G and helps the ACC...doesn't mean Michigan has more money than it does today.
Let's say the B1G has $100 per team and Michigan leaving drops that down to $60 per team.
Meanwhile the ACC has $65 per team and adding Michigan gets them to $90 (!) per team.
Michigan still lost money. We are down $10. Even though we brought the ACC up by $25.
The ACC needs Michigan more than Michigan needs the ACC.
Now you just made the gap between Michigan and the SEC even worse.
It's strange some of you are missing this point. The ACC is MUCH further back than some of you realize.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:07 PM ^
It probably wouldn't be Michigan acting alone, though.
There's a good chance that if Michigan were to leave for the ACC, PSU would follow. They didn't like the West Coast additions at all and their alumni have always identified more with the East Coast.
You might also see the four new West Coast Big Ten schools get cold feet in this scenario and explore the ACC, where Stanford/Cal already are.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:09 PM ^
Or maybe Michigan decides that winning football games in a conference that supports them is more important than a few million more? Isn't Michigan already one of the richest programs even if you take away the TV money?
November 10th, 2023 at 8:17 PM ^
The B1G is trying to take a significant portion of that money away with their actions. And that could continue to happen over the years. So pretty soon, we're making OSU(ntOSU) money.
Big picture is the play here.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:47 PM ^
Good argument for a superleague.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:32 PM ^
You're right. But if the conference behaved like it, this might be worth something: "The ACC needs Michigan more than Michigan needs the ACC." Over time, it might make the ACC a more attractive place to spend broadcasting $$$.
I don't think UM's going anywhere, but it sure would be nice if this damned conference started treating Michigan like the centerpiece they are.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:49 PM ^
We were talking about this at work...and kinda elegant
OSU, Penn State, Michigan and ND east division. Usc Cal wash and Oregon west division.
You play every one in your division home and away. And play the other division once.
Usc has got to be having PTSD from what happened to Carroll.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
The $30 million difference (assuming that is the right number) is the difference as it now stands. Clemson and FSU reportedly want out under the current conditions.
But, a Michigan going to the ACC upsets the status quo so you can't really make a comparison using the current status.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
Troll. Benedict Arnold. But more importantly you don't understand that with Michigan in any League it would automatically improve by light years. Get it. Change your name.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:03 PM ^
While you try to insult people you should calm down learn basic economics.
Michigan in the MAC is huge for...THE MAC.
Those team could TRIPLE what they current pull in.
But Michigan could be getting half what it gets.
It's the same for the ACC, just not as drastic.
Michigan pulls the value up for the ACC...no one is arguing that, smart ass.
- Michigan doesn't just have to pull the value of the ACC up.
- Michigan doesn't just have to pull the value of the ACC past the B1G.
MICHIGAN HAS TO PULL THE VALUE OF THE ACC UP, PAST A B1G...WITH *MICHIGAN* IN IT!
The fact that some of you can't get your heads around that fact is fucking insane.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:06 PM ^
THE CURRENT B1G IS MORE VALUEABLE THAN THE CURRENT ACC + MICHIGAN.
^THAT is the point you all are missing.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:06 PM ^
If the price of $30 million in TV revenue is a conference that actively sabotages your success with arbitrary and capricious punishment, ass-slapping OSU refs, etc, that definitely factors into the equation.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:07 PM ^
Then go independent. The fact that people keep talking about the ACC is so fucking stupid.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:27 PM ^
Not a lawyer, but I know what you don't call it... DUE PROCESS.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:39 PM ^
What amazes me is that the Tucker situation just gave everyone the perfect example of why you need to honor due process.
Did Tony not see Tucker’s lawsuit against MSU?
Seriously wondering if Tony P is on drugs.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:54 PM ^
I'm starting to wonder if OSU's PI team spent some time on Tony P and dug up enough dirt to strongarm him behind the scenes; otherwise, he is simply irrational.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:27 PM ^
Pettiti is being a petty little...
November 10th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
Bitch.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:28 PM ^
This isn’t ’Nam, Tom. There are rules.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:31 PM ^
Have you been in court? I think you’d shit your pants if you saw American-style “justice” in action.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:40 PM ^
Yes, yes I have. That’s why I don’t actively practice any longer and went into a different line of work.
After having a circuit court judge allow a defendant, who defaulted, failed to answer any pleadings, take the matter to trial…over the phone despite everything I could do to explain how everything she did was improper, I told myself I’m not doing this the rest of my life.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:32 PM ^
Forget it Tony, you're out of your element.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:50 PM ^
Word.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:31 PM ^
They tried to go through and refute the points Michigan raised, but it reads like they weren't that well prepared for this type of pushback. This isn't the only misread they make of the AD's response, there's a few times throughout the letter they misinterpret it to make an argument for them.
There's also a few contradictions (it threatens player health and safety if you have the signs! But... only if its done under Michigan's "scheme" not if you get them from other means).
Petitti is pissed and being petty as well. He's massively misplayed his hand and got used and usually people in his position are not good and being objective when that happens and stepping back from the situation.
EDIT: just to add, I'm sure W&C is going to destroy those type of contradictions.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:35 PM ^
Once this is over I can tell him where to go to get help with that ego.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:38 PM ^
Repeating my own comment, but: the letter asserts that "The University’s response did not deny that the impermissible scheme occurred" when the University's response explicitly noted that NCAA rules do not allow it to comment on this while the investigation is ongoing.
This letter also plays fast and loose with that "impermissible scheme" shorthand for something that is not obviously a rules violation.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:51 PM ^
Yeah, that's some absolutely first year associate level lawyering. No way I'd sign my name to that stupid of an argument, or that petty-looking of an argument.
But then again, I actually know what I'm doing in my job.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:13 PM ^
That's literally an r/CFB talking point from Michigan haters. I can't believe they actually said that.
The absence of a denial doesn't mean anything, specifically when Michigan can't even comment on the investigation, per NCAA rules.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:40 PM ^
The whole "player safety" thing is honestly the most disgusting, disingenuous angle of all. Like, they literally said, simultaneously, that "knowing the other team's signs is dangerous" but also "we haven't heard about ILLEGAL sign stealing by other teams so we don't care about what they did". Aside from the fact that it is ABSOLUTELY advance in-person scouting to obtain signs from coaches who played your opponent previously, it must be the case that knowing signs is dangerous or it's not. How it happened is irrelevant. If you actually thought it was dangerous, you would cancel the whole rest of the season.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:48 PM ^
It never ceases to amaze me how wealthy, "successful" people can behave so irrationally when fairly challenged, and just dig in behind their hurting buttholes rather than behave logically.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:55 PM ^
Well, they had until Michigan was on the plane to make their decision. So they had enough time. They chose to execute the decision and reported to the media instead of to Michigan directly. What does that say? It says they really don't care about Michigan they don't care about the players for sure and they sure as hell don't care about the fans. I think it is time to leave.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:58 PM ^
They didn't get confused with Michigan's points. They intentionally argued against what they wished Michigan was arguing. Typical lawyer tactics when you have a shit hand.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:34 PM ^
I don’t think there is any evidence. The BIG has not indicated they have anything that could rightly be considered as evidence.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:39 PM ^
That's because there never was. This was meant to be some PR bullshit designed to interfere with Harbaugh's extension. Then it got out of hand and here we are.
November 10th, 2023 at 8:32 PM ^
It appears they have a color coded spreadsheet - and, got a message from Sankey and the SEC.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:34 PM ^
There is more evidence of the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^
From what I could glean from actual lawyers, Michigan has a decent shot at a TRO. From what I’m reading we should know this evening and I’m not going to bed until I get the answer.
EDITED for spelling.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:46 PM ^
If you find out before the game it will likely be in the morning.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
We'll hear tonight, I'd guess within the next few hours.
November 10th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^
Is Petitti’(s) claim ... just a lawyering tactic
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.