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Behold the glory that is OL depth

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:32 PM
#1
AC1997
AC1997's picture
Joined: 09/19/2008
MGoPoints: 887
Behold the glory that is OL depth

With the wonderfully surprising news of Lewan’s return I thought a quick post to celebrate the glory of a real depth chart at the offensive line for the first time in what seems like forever. 

Note – I’m making a few assumptions just to illustrate this.  Obviously if Lewan were to miss a game they would probably shift things around so the best available back-up comes in and Schofield moves to LT.   I’m also making the assumption that Bryant wins the starting job at RG even though I think that is the one position where things are totally up in the air. 

Tackle:

  1. Lewan & Schofield
  2. Braden & Magnuson
  3. Fox & Tuley-Tillman

Guard:

  1. Kalis & Bryant
  2. Bars & Burzynski
  3. Bosch & Dawson

Center:

  1. Miller
  2. Glasgow/Burzynski
  3. Kugler

I honestly hope that a 6’1” walk-on doesn’t end up having to play a lot of guard, but I don’t want to sell Burzynski short since he clearly did some good things this past year.  If I were him, I would work all summer on learning to snap the ball and getting in the mix to be a back-up center.   You can live with a 6’1” center and there’s a potential opportunity on the depth chart. 

I also wonder if Magnuson or Braden could be an option at RG if they’re truly one of the 5 best guys.  I suppose a long-shot option would be to put Braden at RT and move Schofield back to RG. 

RIP horrific looking depth charts that feature true-freshmen in the 2-deep. 

Also, Magnus has a full depth chart prediction on his site right now: http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2013/01/premature-2013-depth-chart.html

 

AC-1997

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:34 PM | Wow, we have a 2 deep for the (Score:5 Normal)
TheLastHoke
TheLastHoke's picture
Joined: 08/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3165

Wow, we have a 2 deep for the first time in what, 6 years?

HOKEAMANIA RUNNIN' WILD

Formerly, TheLastProphet

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:36 PM | Great, now how do we keep (Score:3 Normal)
State Street
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Joined: 07/09/2011
MGoPoints: 1160

Great, now how do we keep each and every guy content with his role on the team?  #SabanProblems

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:23 PM | well (Score:2)
lofton18
Joined: 12/06/2012
MGoPoints: 39

If a backup gets passed by a younger guy and wants to leave im cool with that, bring in a new and better recruit.

As soon as i get 100 points I'm up voting and down voting ever comment on this site!!!

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:52 PM | ... (Score:3 Normal)
Sten Carlson
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Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 40

State Street = Debbie Downer

Sing to the colors that float in the light;
Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
 

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:38 PM | I don't see why it's a long (Score:1 Normal)
gutnedawg
Joined: 12/18/2010
MGoPoints: 379

I don't see why it's a long shot that mags or braden moves to RT and Schofield goes back inside.

/°>

 

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:53 PM | Because Bryant is a massive (Score:5 Normal)
CRex
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Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8797

Because Bryant is a massive human being who supposedly was doing well in camp prior to breaking his tibia.  Assuming he recovers fully, he's the third most experienced guy on the roster, has had more time to develop physically, and to learn the system.  Odds are he's in the top 5 you want on the field, which means Schofield retains the RT slot and Kalis takes the other guard slot (Lewan of course handles LT).

If Bryant is ready to go, it makes no sense to make a reliable RT go through yet another posistion switch.  

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:43 PM | Yea that's barring a recovery (Score:2 Funny)
gutnedawg
Joined: 12/18/2010
MGoPoints: 379

Yea that's barring a recovery in time to practice with the other linemen. He may be the best on paper but when camp comes if he's not ready I'd rather see schofield move inside so our front five can have as much time together as possible.

/°>

 

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:40 PM | He'll be ready for spring. A (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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Joined: 11/13/2009
MGoPoints: 18038

He'll be ready for spring. A broken bone doesn't take all that long to heal, especially on a 19 year old kid.

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:43 PM | Just list them, I don't care! (Score:2)
LB
LB's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 5166

It will be nice to be more than a twisted ankle away from seeing Devin run for his life every snap. Ahhhhh, bliss!

May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:47 PM | Kugler at Center (Score:1)
Grahambino
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Joined: 12/06/2009
MGoPoints: 200

If I were a betting man I'd think Kugler can beat out Glasgow and Burzynski for the #2 spot by the end of fall camp.  I think he'll challenge Miller for the starting spot by the end of the year.  I think the only thing holding him back would be the knowledge of line adjustments.

Those who stay will be champions.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:21 PM | Debatable (Score:3 Insightful)
Business Time
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Joined: 02/17/2011
MGoPoints: 161

I personally would rather not have a true freshman in the 2-deep, and Hoke seems to like preserving OL redshirts (i.e. Kalis this year).

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:50 PM | Ill drink some HopSlam to that, (Score:4 Normal)
Str8ballin
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Joined: 11/18/2009
MGoPoints: 648

comes out tomorrow

I need to go home and put water in Buck Nasty's Mom's dish

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January 10th, 2013 at 12:58 PM | It was out yesterday at the Troy Wholefoods (Score:1)
909Dewey
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Joined: 08/21/2009
MGoPoints: 311

I am an IPA lover but it was priced at $17.99 for a sixer.  Is it really worth that?

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:16 PM | I paid $19.99 a year or two (Score:2)
West is Best
Joined: 03/14/2011
MGoPoints: 45

I paid $19.99 a year or two ago...

From Grand Rapids to the Rocky Mountains, champions of the West.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:17 PM | Yes (Score:1)
IncrediblyBLUE
Joined: 03/26/2011
MGoPoints: 622

Yes. Yes it is

Coach Hoke once told me that a moral victory is still a (expletive deleted) loss.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:36 PM | Think of it this way... 10% (Score:3 Normal)
Sideline
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 192

Think of it this way... 10% ABU, right? 17.99/6= 2.99/ Bottle. $2.99 per 10%

Bud Light/Miller light...4.2% I believe... 6.99/6= 1.17/Bottle.    $1.17 per 4.2%

You need 2.38 times more BL than Hop Slam to ingest the same amount of Alcohol content...

2.38 * 6.99 = $16.64 as opposed to the 17.99 for Craft Beer brewed in MICHIGAN!

 

Plus Hopslam tastes better too.

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:25 PM | i'll drink to that math (Score:2)
lofton18
Joined: 12/06/2012
MGoPoints: 39

i'll drink to that math

As soon as i get 100 points I'm up voting and down voting ever comment on this site!!!

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:06 PM | hopslam (Score:1)
thedeezy
thedeezy's picture
Joined: 02/03/2011
MGoPoints: 45

is actually out today and has been on tap at some places for a few days. As good as ever.

Also, Hooray offensive line depth

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:00 PM | What are those things under (Score:5 Normal)
Seth
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Joined: 10/14/2008
MGoPoints: 48584

What are those things under the starters? Recruits or something?

(Blogger alias: "Misopogon") This team is under construction. We thank you for your patience.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:03 PM | You have to admit, though, (Score:1)
One Inch Woody ...
One Inch Woody Hayes Punch's picture
Joined: 06/25/2011
MGoPoints: 570

You have to admit, though, that RS Freshmen behind the starters is better than walk-ons that have never played football before and air.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:03 PM | Schofield was LG, not RG. He (Score:1)
panthers5
Joined: 01/12/2010
MGoPoints: -39

Schofield was LG, not RG. He played beside Taylor. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Kugler starts from Day 1. From all accounts he was a flat out stud in the all-star game.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:10 PM | Not going to happen (Score:2)
dinsdale613
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Joined: 05/20/2010
MGoPoints: 461

We have th most college ready O-linemen in the midwest in a few years on our roster and he redshirted.  Kugler still needs t o add weight as well.  Unless Kalis is not all he cracks up to be, Our linemen are going to be redshirting unless something very bad happens.

I am become Tim Hardaway Jr.  Destroyer of Worlds

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:06 PM | I'll be that guy (Score:2)
ToledoWolverine
ToledoWolverine's picture
Joined: 10/02/2008
MGoPoints: 220

2014 looking like WR is going to be dicey. Heres hoping to someone stepping up in 2013 and alleviating that concern. We can haz depth, on both sides of the ball....? nice.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:22 PM | Which is why the OL depth is (Score:2 Normal)
SC Wolverine
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Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 1521

Which is why the OL depth is so important.  An extra second to get open can really improve your receivers.  And let 's not sell Gallon and Dileo short (no pun intended) for '13.  They can play.  Admittedly, some of these WR recruits will have to step up for '14.

 

"Football is happening at Michigan... we have that savoir faire."  Dhani Jones

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:09 PM | Best thing about depth is (Score:2)
jtmc33
Joined: 04/15/2009
MGoPoints: 4930

Best thing about depth is that you get 2-3 guys fighting it out for the starting spot so you know the starter has earned it and has real potential... rather than one guy, no matter how "average" getting the start because there are no other options.

At Center:   Miller, Bars, or Kugler

At RG:   Bryant or Bosch

Whoever starts against CMU isn't set for 14 games... it will be a battle all season for these guys.  That will make them better, meaner, and hungrier.

In 2014, Hoke should  just throw all 13 of his 4-5 star OL into a Thunderdome and see which 5 walk out.   I bet BTN would pick it up and show it in early August.  

Class of '97: 4 Years -- 4 Four-loss seasons

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:18 PM | I'm looking forward to (Score:2 Normal)
turtleboy
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Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 3264

I'm looking forward to finding our running game again under these starters. Next year our backs first contact will be the linebackers after a 3-4 yard gain instead of running into our own linemen being thrown back into them.

"that's why you don't go to Ohio State, Lawrence"

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:26 PM | you know the sound of that collision (Score:2 Normal)
BlueHenBlue
Joined: 10/19/2009
MGoPoints: 44

Remember the first snap of the first game this year, when their OL pushed back our DL off the ball a whole yard with a loud WHUMP?

I hope that will be our OL next year.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:26 PM | Prediction from the west side is (Score:1)
WestSider
WestSider's picture
Joined: 02/04/2011
MGoPoints: 351

that Braden will start at right tackle and make that his position for a very long time. Don't have the link, but look at his picture from the Big House Barbeque and consider those who believe he is under rated.  

Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it.

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:27 PM | Kugler (Score:2)
Lucky Socks
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Joined: 01/18/2012
MGoPoints: 197

Does anybody else think Kugler could step in and start from Day 1?  

At center you don't need to have the same physical "rediness" as you do tackle or guard.  He's already bigger, and can't be much weaker (if at all) than Jack Miller.  Sure, he'll need to master the mental and technique part of the game but his situation makes it reasonable.  His technique is already very good.  

Let's say Hoke or Funk give him a call and tells him to come ready to be in the mix for the starting nod.  He watches tons of flim as a center, begins working with Pops on some center specific stuff, and hones his technique.  Arrives in Ann Arbor in May ready to continue to build his body and workout with his teammates.  Strong fall camp, and I think he could be our guy.   We all agree that his potential is greater than that of Jack Miller.  His pedigree could help him be a better option to start sooner rather than later.

Ultimately I think and hope that Jack Miller earns the job and plays well.  I just wouldn't be surprised to see Kugler in there from Day 1.  

Twin Cities

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:31 PM | I could see that happening. (Score:2)
lofton18
Joined: 12/06/2012
MGoPoints: 39

I could see that happening.  I could see alot of different scenrios alot of OL talent.

As soon as i get 100 points I'm up voting and down voting ever comment on this site!!!

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January 10th, 2013 at 3:20 PM | A true freshman center?  No, (Score:2)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27790

A true freshman center?  No, I don't see that happening.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: June 17

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:28 PM | I thought Dawson was going to (Score:1)
Swazi
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Joined: 08/13/2010
MGoPoints: 2580

I thought Dawson was going to be moving over to center?

If you need drugs to be a good writer, you're not a good writer.

-Rod Serling

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January 10th, 2013 at 3:21 PM | Nope, guard.  He said he (Score:2)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27790

Nope, guard.  He said he would be willing to play center, but they wanted to start him off at guard.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: June 17

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January 11th, 2013 at 12:27 PM | There was talk of that before Kugler committed (Score:1)
93Grad
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 855

but I haven't seen that much since.  Dawson will, and should be at Guard

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:29 PM | Kugler (Score:1)
AC1997
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I would also expect that Kugler rockets up the depth chart faster than any other freshmen based on his position, his talent, his physical development, and his background.  I think as such he'll probably burn his red-shirt next year. 

He could even get in the mix at RG if he's as good as we think.  However, I would expect that Miller gets every chance to succeed before they turn to Kugler.  Miller has a good reputation and is a true-center who's been in the system for two years already.  The only knock against him is size, which we'll now have at every other position on the line. 

I have high hopes for Miller.....but I do wonder why he didn't get any playing time at center this year given that Mealer wasn't having a stellar year. 

AC-1997

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:39 PM | I'm a huge fan of Kugler, and (Score:1)
turtleboy
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I'm a huge fan of Kugler, and I think he's gonna be one of the best linemen of all the star prospects we've taken recently, but if they didn't burn Kalis redshirt despite the glaring need for a better Guard in 2012 then they won't burn Kuglers just to do it. Jack Miller could also be a good to great center. 

"that's why you don't go to Ohio State, Lawrence"

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January 10th, 2013 at 1:42 PM | "I have high hopes for (Score:1)
Sideline
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 192

"I have high hopes for Miller.....but I do wonder why he didn't get any playing time at center this year given that Mealer wasn't having a stellar year. "

- I honestly believe this is due to Coach Hoke's loyalty to upper classmen...

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January 10th, 2013 at 4:13 PM | Crazy Excuses (Score:1)
Mat
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Let's think about how reasonable it is for Hoke to bench a superior player, sacrifice a lot of the team's hardwork, all for the sake of 'loyalty'.

Furthermore, when a player went down - Burzynski was the guy that came in, not Miller.  It could just as easily have been Miller at OC (with Mealer sliding over), but it wasn't.  The coaches were frustrated with the OL but didn't make changes because they didn't trust any of the backups to provide an upgrade.

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January 11th, 2013 at 12:33 PM | Hoke doesn't seem as bad at this as some other (Score:1)
93Grad
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 855

coaches.  Hoke has shown a willingness to get young talent on the field where they prove they belong, particularly at LB. 

 

But, that said isn't Oline and area where expereince really makes a difference?  So I'm not sure I would call it loyalty as much as the staff believing that the experienced OL would play better than the newbies.

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:13 PM | I am sure kugler will be (Score:1)
russale2012
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I am sure kugler will be great for us, but i feel like you should never want a true freshman on the line. they need that redshirt year to learn the system and develop.

Brady Hoke: Kicking Ass And Signing Names On The Recruiting Trail

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January 10th, 2013 at 2:34 PM | Other OL (Score:1)
MaizeRage82
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How about guys like Ben Pliska, Dan Gibbs, Kristian Mateus and Erik Gunderson? Are any of these guys expected to contribute anytime in the future or are they just roster fillers?

"I have seen the top of the mountain. And it is good."

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January 10th, 2013 at 3:19 PM | I think they're pretty much (Score:2)
Magnus
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I think they're pretty much just roster fillers.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: June 17

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January 10th, 2013 at 3:15 PM | OL Thoughts (Score:1)
Mat
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Yes, it is great that our scholarship numbers are up on the OL, but most (if not all) of the freshman are going to red-shirt, so they're not really contributing to functional depth. (Especially true if the walk-ons are as good as people want them to be.)

There's 8 non-freshman scholarship players, only one more than last year. We lose 3, gain 4 -- not a big change.  A true freshman could help, and we now have 5 instead of 4, but that doesn't move the needle dramatically.  Furthermore, when you consider that most of these guys haven't played yet, there's a decent chance that one or two are going to be busts who can't perform at a Mealer/Burzynski level.  Finally, Michigan has been extremely lucky with avoiding OL injuries the last few years.  As soon as the first injury hits - we're back to where we were - an injury away from some significant problems.  Not Denard to Bellomy problems, but problems nonetheless.

Regarding who starts:  I don't think shifting Schofield back to guard is a longshot at all. They'll put the best 5 on the field. I'm guessing it's 3 guys battling for 2 starting spots:  Braden, Bryant, and Kalis.

At center, I think there is a lot of uncertainty.  Burzynski will start ahead of Miller, is my guess.  Not likely, but Kugler could be the rare true freshman starter, given the alternatives.  If all 3 of the above are playing up to their talent levels, they might even try Kalis at C.  One thing is clear:  Miller didn't earn the coach's trust in '12.  Maybe that will change, maybe it won't.

 

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January 10th, 2013 at 5:02 PM | Disagree..... (Score:1)
AC1997
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Mat -

I need to disagree with you on your depth comment.  You're right that we replaced 3 graduating players with 4 redshirt freshmen......but we also added 5 (and possibly 6) true freshmen.  Look at it this way.....

In 2012 if someone on the OL got hurt they would bring in a walk-on in Burzynski and then be forced to shift all of the positions around to make sure he played guard.  If a second injury happened we would be forced to play a true freshman. 

In 2013 if someone on the OL gets hurt we still have Burzynski but we also have THREE back-ups who have been in the program for at least a year and can play multiple positions.  (Braden, Bars, Magnuson if you assume Kalis and Bryant start).  Before we even have to consider playing a true freshman just about the entire starting OL would have to go down with an injury.  And even then, you could pick the most college-ready of the numerous freshmen. 

 

AC-1997

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January 10th, 2013 at 5:17 PM | Shifting Positions (Score:1)
Mat
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I don't think that's really a big deal.  Many of our players are flexible, which is why you saw Schofield, Mealer, and Barnum all move around in the starting lineup.  And next year - most of these guys haven't had a chance to get settled at any one spot yet, so they shouldn't be too affected if they flip from LG to RG for example.

Re: 2012 -  Bryant was hurt and you forgot about Miller.  What you said about playing a true freshman is only partially true because of injury to Bryant.  If you compare pre-injury depth charts to post-injury depth charts, they will always look better. 

  • scholarship backups as of spring 2012:  Bryant, Miller,
  • scholarship backups as of spring 2013:  Braden, Bars, Magnuson

That's a difference of one - and (again) none of those guys have played a down of college football yet.  So their usefullness is unclear.

To put it another way - Michigan was very lucky to only have 1 injury this year and it was to a backup.  Their starters (5th year seniors, all) stayed healthy.  Injuries in 2013 will probably have more of a detrimental impact.

I get what you're saying, and it is nice to see the numbers be replenished, but we're not going to have significantly more OL depth until 2014 at the earliest.  After next year we only our two tackles, and we bring in 5 or 6 guys.  Even after some attrition there should be at least 10 scholarship players, plus a nice crop of veteran preferred walk-ons.  We're not there yet though.  The 2013 line is still going to be thin, and it's going to be extremely inexperienced on the interior.  Huge that Lewan is back - HUGE - but OL is still an issue.

 

 

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January 10th, 2013 at 3:45 PM | Kugler (Score:2)
dinsdale613
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Joined: 05/20/2010
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I don't get all the "Kugler playing a a true freshmen talk."  Does anyone here honestly want an undersized true freshmen playing arguably the most important position on the line?  Miller most likely didnt play last year due to lack of size, and Kugler would have the same problem.  If anything, Bosch is probably closer to playing time than him,  But again, Kalis didnt play as a Frosh, I doubt any of the incoming guys will

I am become Tim Hardaway Jr.  Destroyer of Worlds

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January 10th, 2013 at 4:02 PM | "Miller didn't play last year (Score:1)
Mat
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"Miller didn't play last year due to lack of size."  Dubious.  Miller is listed at only 7 or 8 pounds less than Burzynski and Barnum and weighs more than Molk did when he played.

OC is more about brains than brawn.   Given the last minute switch of Mealer to OC and Burzynski being the first sub into OL, it's safe to say the coaches weren't real comfortable with Miller and I don't think it was size-related.

Kalis didn't play, but might have if he was needed.  The thing was he was behind 3 seniors on the OL interior, plus a capable walk-on. Kugler will be behind 3 guys who've scarcely played a down.  Similar backgrounds, very different circumstances.

I agree it's not necesserily likely that Kugler plays and even less likely that he starts, but if Michigan takes a 6th OL or a viable starter at OC doesn't emerge it would make some sense.

Finally, if weight matters to you; Kugler is only listed 8 pounds lighter than Miller - not an insurmountable difference.

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January 10th, 2013 at 4:30 PM | center (Score:2)
dinsdale613
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Joined: 05/20/2010
MGoPoints: 461

Its likely kugler is closer to what the coaches want at center than miller, who they did not recruit I believe. On that  we can both agree. But Miller has been in the system a few years and has a jump on kugler. Kugler is most likely our long term center. But the idea of a true freshman playing there should scare everyone.  I think Miller and Burzynski both get a crack at it before Kugler like you said,  and yes, I am concerned like you that Miller couldnt beat out Mealer last year.   I think Bars might even get a shot there.  Center might be the most contested spot on the line.  Or they might decide Miller is the guy.  But whatever happens, Kugler wil hopefully redshirt and take over duties after that.

I am become Tim Hardaway Jr.  Destroyer of Worlds

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January 10th, 2013 at 5:22 PM | Experience is Important (Score:1)
Mat
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I do agree Miller is more likely to start than Kugler.  Certainly the coaches would prefer Kugler to be red-shirted.  I also agree that guys like Bars will get a shot. (and Burzynski, maybe others...)

The only reason a true freshman is in the conversation is that no one has proven to be a viable replacement.  There's not much evidence that Miller is the man (though there is much fan optimism, I believe it's based mostly on wishful thinking.)  There isn't an identified backup either.  So, it's wide open and will be contested, as you said.

When you have a highly touted freshman recruit at a position of need, it's natural to think he might be used.

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January 10th, 2013 at 4:29 PM | With the return of Lewan, I (Score:1 Trolling)
Mfan2000
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7988

With the return of Lewan, I wouldn't trade M's OL for any in the country. OL is going to be a strength next season and for years to come.

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