I grew up in Michigan, I used to root for MSU when they weren't playing Michigan. I usually root for the Big Ten when it comes to bowls, NCAA tourney, etc... I don't 'hate' MSU, I just don't want them to beat Michigan. Dantonio is an OSU guy at heart and all he knows is to hate the state up north. I won't hate the state down south, but I will root against OSU every single time they play Michigan. I will root for them in a NC game or in the NCAA tourney as they are representing the Big Ten. I don't reciprocate the hate.

But, for the record, please don't associate the Fab Five with "bad times." Rose, Howard, King, and Jackson deserve better than that. Webber might have been the center piece of that group, but Michigan still made the elite 8 the year after Webber left and they gave eventual champ Arkansas all they could handle. I was a freshmen when the Fab Five were sophomores. That year will forever be tainted but man, those were some good times.

Dantonio is a douche, and I don't even need to mention the hockey team, but Izzo is a classy guy. It makes the Big Ten look good when they win, so I'm rooting for them (this year).

The first time I rooted for the Spartans to actually win a National Championship was in 2000. After they won the Big Ten Tournament that year, I just figured that they were going to win it anyway, so I might as well root for them. I wasn't shouting it from the mountaintops; but I went on record that they would win. Ain't happening this year, tho'.

#1!

you could not bob and weave!!!

Has more to do with our recruiting. Yes, I understand it’s a bit of a cycle, our success is dependent on our recruiting which is dependent on our success. However, Michigan had the talent last year to beat State. That’s what they have to do, is beat them when they play head to head. No one said they wanted State to win in that case, everyone on here wants Michigan to win when they play each other. Personally I would rather have both teams be undefeated when they play each other. 1) It makes the rivalry better; 2) It gives Michigan a larger spot light for in state recruiting (especially if they win); 3)If both teams are good it gives Michigan a national spot light. If State is good and we are good then it’s astonishingly better for us. State sacrificing two games before they play us won't help them in recruiting either. I'm pretty sure if both teams struggle the good players will go out of state. Losing two games just to beat your rival isn't going to keep encouraging players to play there. I understand our football program isn’t top notch right now, but we have the talent to beat State still. Sometimes recruits aren’t won over for various outside reasons that Michigan can’t control (as apparently was the case with Gholston). Yes, neighborly success can hinder Michigan, but if Michigan does what it should/could be capable of in the future, the success of our neighbors will only help us. When Michigan is the home state, great success doesn’t just come from local recruiting. It comes from national recruiting. With our rivals better that helps us get better. Ohio State hurt themselves a lot in national title games and maybe that’s one of the reasons their recruiting was down this past year, but it doesn’t necessarily help them that we are struggling. The Game is a national spotlight game, when both teams are good a ton of people nationwide watch. You hear recruits from all over talking about this when either us or OSU recruits them. So in a sense, yes, you are correct, it is narrow minded to say neighborly success doesn’t affect us in things like recruiting. That affect, however, can be both positive and negative. When State isn’t playing Michigan, many times it can help Michigan in the end.

Some things transcend petty pragmatism, friend. Michigan's success ultimately stems from holding itself to a higher standard. When you aim for the stars, sometimes you land on the moon. Right now we are on the moon ... so we should start aiming for it? Defeatist rhetoric at its most subversive. "Take it like a man."

The perfect word for this poster's attitude. Sad to see some of the Michigan fan base sink to the level of Spartans. Apathy towards their success would be one thing, but to actually want them to lose is a characteristic of lower classes.

Well said!

nm

With regard to being humbled -- I, too, have experienced sub-par results. When humility is forced upon you, do you take it like a man? That is, going forward, will you work hard to ensure that your grades are better? Or will you curse your peers, hoping for their failure so you can succeed by virtue of simply being less bad on a curve of bad grades? Better to invest your energy in something you can control. Do a better job next time -- this is how the noble approach humility. Wishing for others to fail or blaming their hard work and success for your own failure is the lot of the bitter, resentful, and petty -- that is, the weak: those destined for servitude. Which brings me to the next point: Conan's argument. You posit that this perspective is basic human nature -- and indeed, Conan is a hero of human dignity, a case of a slave besting his former captors. It should be noted that this was accomplished through hard work and determination. Thulsa Doom was at the height of his power when Conan defeated him. Should Conan have simply sat by and hoped for Doom to fall from grace? And what if Conan encountered Doom after such a fall, when Doom was but a petty, leprous beggar in some urban gutter -- what glory would there be in defeating him? That is, what's good about defeating someone who has already defeated himself? There is undoubtedly some good in it, but it is diminished. Conan's sentiment, as you point out, was during his time as a slave. Thus, his is the sentiment of slaves; if this perspective is one that you share, then that corroborates what I've been saying all along -- but please, don't attribute such a mentality to all humanity. But Conan is different from most slaves (this is why he's a hero). He was not content to wait for Doom to fall or be defeated by someone else -- he wanted to be the one to do it. And he made it happen. It is not simply a matter of passively seeing your enemies driven before you -- but being the one to drive them and crush them! To cause the lamentation of their women! With regard to this slave mentality (that is, an interpretation of Conan's sentiment as strictly "passive"), let's think of it objectively. The master defines and the slave reacts. We in the "second camp" define Michigan as the former -- we are the masters. We made the game what it is today... all of our opponents follow in our footsteps. Through strength and will, we crafted a period of dominance in the game that has never -- and will never! -- be replicated by any other team. This is our place in history; these are our roots. Our rivals' place in history is beneath our heel as we ground them down and crushed their spirits. That is why OSU and Sparty hate us -- because for oh-so long, we were their undisputed masters. Their hatred is a product of this mentality, that of the oppressed. Such hatred is, by its very nature, reactionary -- therefore, it is defensive. And so, you are entirely wrong to attribute "defensiveness" to the "second camp." We are maintaining the perspective of masters (which need not be derived from Michigan's academic standing -- it is entirely based on football). Yours is the perspective of the oppressed, of losers. And I lament every day that more and more fall into your camp -- for such is the product of this "shellshock" that you describe, from the events you've named. These are not occurrences which masters are accustomed to, and some despair and falter at such sights. Your camp is the product of losing -- it is a reaction to said events. I say to you, brother, though we may lose at times, let us not begin to define ourselves as losers or act like losers. The "second camp" is simply where Michigan has been all along -- we bear the torch of tradition. Through us, the luminous spirit of Michigan shines, and ever-brighter when shrouded in darkness. What is noble? That which does not react, but defines. That is the spirit of Michigan Football. Keep your eyes on the prize, brother, and know your role.

Spoken like a true Spartan: those who cheer against Michigan before they cheer their own team. Spartans who live in glass houses...