CC: A Statistical Look at Jim Harbaugh's Stanford Years

Submitted by alum96 on

Well I tried to make this short enough for a forum entry but people prefer brevity there which I fail at in these type of analysis, so I decided to write a long form and will place in diary.

With the erasure of David Brandon from UM athletics and the scuttlebutt about a potential re-marriage with Jim  Harbaugh (the guy who wears a crown says Harbaugh's reps will be in AA next week to meet with Schlissel, but MGo policy is not to link to the crowned one's site) I thought I'd present some data on Harbaugh's Stanford years.  I've done a litany of reviews of most of the major coaching candidates (Mullen, Patterson, Graham, Jones, Mark Stoops) over the past month in a somewhat similar format but  I am going to make this post more narrow, focusing mostly on statistics. (I also looked at how Strong & Franklin compared to this year's candidates)

I did break out Jim's data a lot more in detail - rather than simply looking at total offense/defense each year at Stanford, I went into rush & pass offense/defense and then went another step and looked at the advanced metrics of FEI and S&P+ utilizing Football Outsiders.  Harbaugh coached from 07 to 10, so I've also listed the data for Stanford in the year before and year after he coached for comparison (please note there was no FEI data in 2006)

Here is Harbaugh's data - please note Andrew Luck was QB in 09/10/11:

  W/L Tot Off oFEI oS&P+   Tot Def dFEI dS&P+
2006 1-11 118 - 113   97 - 99
2007 4-8 107 61 83   98 49 85
2008 5-7 67 48 31   75 80 87
2009 8-5 19 1 6   90 91 113
2010 12-1 14 5 3   21 6 6
2011 11-2 8 6 8   26 13 22

 

Here is a deep dig into the data broken down by run / pass

  Rush O Pass O Rush D Pass D
2006 115 95 117 60
2007 102 70 77 84
2008 19 103 77 83
2009 11 70 55 98
2010 17 29 19 16
2011 18 22 3 73

 

TL;DR version - cool story bro, I dont care, statistics are for losers...give me Harbaugh.  Stop reading here.

 

Not TL;DR version

DEFENSE

The perception of Stanford football today is tough a$$ defense.  But that was not Harbaugh's defense, or it sure wasn't until his last year there.  What struck me on looking at the data is how sucky the defense was in Harbaugh's first 3 years.  I mean it was really bad, and yes let's allow for 1-11 Stanford but there should have been more tangible improvement by year 2-3.  Jim doesn't seem to be a defensive coach. And yet we saw a massive improvement in his last year.  So I looked closer and we can get an explanation from 2 words -> Vic Fangio.

Here are his D-coordinators by year

  • 2007 - Scott Schafer (YTSS)
  • 2008 - Andy Buh/Ron Lynn
  • 2009 - ditto
  • 2010 - Vic Fangio

So who is Vic Fangio and where is he now?  Fangio is a long time NFL coach, who unfortunately was stuck coaching for 2 expansion teams, but had been a D Coordinator  from 95 to 05.  Colts management wanted him fired one year but Jim Mora (YTJM) famously refused to fire him since he didnt think he was a problem, and instead Mora got canned.  Between 06-10, Fangio was a "special assistant" to first Billick and then John Harbaugh at the Ravens.  (Ironically on the same staff as Gregg Mattison from 08-10... small world) 

So obviously he got shuttled from 1 Harbaugh to another and his 1 year in college was his only year.  He has been the DC of San Fran's excellent defense since 2011.  At age 57 - and never being a HC -  he does not seem like one to take over for Jim if he was to leave San Fran (hoping UM fans in San Fran could shed more light on this, I am speculating) but he seems like a NFL guy more than a college guy.  I also could not find his salary with the google fergodsakes, but he did get an extension thru 2015 this past March.

If we are lucky enough to land Harbaugh, it will be interesting to see if Mr. Fangio comes along.  (Nice article here on Fangio for those inclined; paints him as a cerebral, detail oriented coaching lifer)

If not, I would say it is imperitive Harbaugh finds an excellent D-coordinator (maybe Will Muschamp?)  Just being blunt but his first 3 years (again allowing that Stanford sucked in 2006) on defense were pretty awful, like Kevin Sumlin's defense at Houston awful.   Well like Kevin Sumlin everywhere he coaches awful on defense.

 

OFFENSE

Unlike the defense, Jim's offense improved at a steady pace through his years at Stanford.  Now again, and this is why I like diving into the data - the perception was this was mostly Andrew Luck.  But as we slice the data we can see it was the rushing offense that carried the day.  By the 2nd year Harbaugh had engineered a Mattison in 2011 turnaround of the rush offense from >100 to top 20.  Now that is f***** manball sir.  Somewhere Bo is shedding a tear.   Luck did come around in 2009-2010 (and 2011 after Harbaugh left) and while the passing offense was very good in 2010, the rushing offense was the better unit even that year.  So in terms of fit of style to current player personnel - I mean the shoe fits.  Assuming Rivals was not wrong on every damn UM offensive recruit from 2012-2014.  Harbaugh did what Hoke promised to do.  And did it quickly.  Interestingly the advanced stats (S&P+ and FEI) were kinder to Stanford then the NCAA's "Total Offense" all 4 years, which is probably a nod to the tough conference.

 

OVERALL

Looking at this data better helped me not only look deeper at Jim Harbaugh but better helped me couch all the other candidates I ran analysis on over the past month.  It makes me appreciate the defensive prowess of Charlie Strong at Louisville and Patterson at TCU, and Graham / Sumlin offensively (and Graham defensively at ASU).  Coming in and quickly turning around programs and getting "top 20" rankings at these schools without top 10-15 recruiting talent is NOT easy.  Many people are critical of many other candidates I (or others) present for not winning big by year 2 at other programs (what?! 5 losses in any year? DO NOT WANT!)  or having one side of the ball with sucky stats. Well Harbaugh evaluated after 2-3 years would have some of those same flags as well. Again - adjusted for taking over a 1-11 tire fire.

Which is why judging a guy like Mark Stoops in year 2 is so difficult - in many ways he is well ahead of where Jim was in year 2 both in W/L and offensive and defensive statistics - taking over a similar 2-10 tire fire.  Of course we'd prefer to see year 3 for him as well! 

Looking at this data, if I removed the name Harbaugh and changed it to Smith and he had played at Nebraska rather than Michigan, "Coach Smith" would not be such a slam dunk based on comments I've seen in many of the CC threads for guys with - frankly - some better data in year 1-3 of their respective stops.

All that said, of course I am not suggessting Jim Harbaugh should not be UM's coach - I would be sent to Bolivia for even the suggestion.  The history, the Michigan roots, the hate for Ohio, the intensity, the intangibles - very few coaches in the country have those.  And he has proven himself even more so at the NFL level than the NCAA.  But he is an offensive minded person who built a manball team and found and tutored a great QB.  Things I am sure he could do here.  But his defensive coordinator hire may be his biggest decision if he does make his way to Ann Arbor.

Comments

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 7:35 AM ^

Here is Muschamp's data for his past 3 stops as both a DC (Auburn/Texas) and HC at UF - excellent defensive stats.  With his blowup at UF he should be content to be a D-coordinator for at least 2 years I'd guess before someone in the Power 5 conferences at a lower level (i.e. a North Carolina type) gives him another chance.

    Total D Rush D Pass D
2006 Auburn 19 45 33
2007 Auburn 6 29 7
2008 Texas 51 3 59
2009 Texas 3 1 10
2010 Texas 6 44 36
2011 FL 8 40 28
2012 FL 5 4 2
2013 FL 8 33 7

 

michiganman01

November 1st, 2014 at 5:57 PM ^

So lets say Muschamp gets fired. We could pick up an offensive mastermind, if we can convince Muschamp to become a DC again. I think that would be great for short term, but after a couple good seasons, Muschamp would probably look for another HC job. However, the foundation would be set.

Maize and Blue…

November 1st, 2014 at 11:28 PM ^

Two-time NESCAC Coach of the Year Jeff Devanney begins his ninth season as head football coach at Trinity College. Trinity hired Devanney, a 1993 graduate of the College, as its 27th head coach in December of 2005. He had been Trinity’s defensive coordinator in 2005, its special teams coordinator from 2001 to 2004, its secondary coach from 2002 to 2005, and its defensive line coach in 2001. Devanney has continued to coach the Bantam defensive backs each fall. In his rookie year at the helm, the Trinity defense surrendered just 54 points all season, and the Bantams have outscored their opponents, 1,642-761, in his eight-year tenure as head coach. Devanney has a 55-9 record as a head coach that includes perfect 8-0 records in 2008 and 2012, which gives him the best winning percentage in the history of Trinity football at .859. The Bantams have not lost a game at home since 2001, a streak of 51 straight games, and won or shared the NESCAC title from 2002 to 2005, in 2008, and 2012. Trinity on its four home games last autumn by a combined score of 148-57. Devanney was honored as the NESCAC Coach of the Year in 2008 and 2012, and also garnered the Gridiron Club's Division II/III New England Coach of the Year last season. Devanney has seen 79 All-NESCAC selections from his teams the last seven years including the NESCAC Offensive and Defensive Player of the Year in 2008, the Defensive Player of the Year from 2010 to 2012, and the NESCAC Rookie of the Year in 2013. In Devanney’s 13 years on the Bantam staff, Trinity has been ranked No. 1 in total defense in the country five times and posted 21 shutouts. Last autumn, Trinity finished sixth nationally in pass efficiency defense with a 90.3 rating for opposing quarterbacks and led the country in kickoff return average with 28.1 yards per attempt. In 2012, the Bantams allowed just 13.9 ppg (9th in nation), yielded 138 yards through the air per game (5th in nation), rushed for 281 yards per game (7th in nation), and held opponents to 254.8 yards per game (8th in nation) and an 80.8 pass efficiency rating (3rd in nation). Trinity led the nation statistically in rushing defense (63.5 ypg), total defense (195.5 g), and scoring defense (8.13 ppg) while posting four shutouts in 2011. Trinity finished first in the nation in rushing defense (45.50 ypg), 22nd nationally in rushing offense (4.29 per game), and 24th in in sacks (2.88 per game) in 2010. In 2006, Trinity led the nation in scoring defense and total defense, and finished second nationally in pass efficiency defense (73.2 opponent efficiency rating). A Devanney-coached Trinity player has been selected to participate in a National Senior All-Star Games in Mexico, Maryland, and Virginia in nine of the last 10 years. A star player in football and baseball for the College, Devanney was voted the NESCAC Football Defensive Player of the Year in 1992. He appears among the College’s all-time leaders in punt returns and stolen bases in baseball. Devanney earned his master’s degree in liberal studies from SUNY-Albany in 1995. Prior to Trinity, Devanney was the defensive coordinator at Central Connecticut State University from 1998-2000. He also served as a secondary coach at Georgia Tech and worked with the wide receivers and tight ends at Albany and Coast Guard. An associate professor in the Triity athletic department, Devanney and his wife, Michele, their daughters, Shea and Caitlin, and their son, Sean, reside in Newington, Conn. Would make a fine Defensive Coordinator.

MonkeyMan

November 2nd, 2014 at 7:23 AM ^

I agree- the data simply doesn't support the crazy enthusiam for Jimmy H. over other candidates. It doesn't. 

What does support the ridiculous preference for Harbaugh over other candidates?

HE'S A MICHIGAN MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This, plain and simple.

For all the folks here who keep saying "let's forget all the Michigan Man stuff" and "Hire the best person period" it turns out that many (not all) fans here are, in fact, every bit as committed to the "Michigan Man" theme as David Brandon was.

Give me a break

Hopefully, the new AD and his successor will be a lot more level headed and choose the BEST candidate, not the fan favorite

Alum 96- you are a great asset to this board- maybe we should put you on the search committee

remdog

November 2nd, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^

his record sucks! Did he win a national championship at Stanford? No! Did he win the Super Bowl at SF? No! He's obviously a loser and only supported because he's a Michigan man. We need a real winner with better results! Just a little sarcasm. Get a grip.

MaizeRage77

November 1st, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^

money wasn't the reason RR couldn't get Casteel to join him in Ann Arbor.  he stayed for his family.  i believe his daughter was going to be graduating high school within the next couple of years, and he didn't want to pack up and move so close to that.

gobluenyc

November 2nd, 2014 at 10:58 PM ^

if Casteel had joined RR, they'd probably both be in A2 still. 

That said, there were so many signs of trouble with a few NFL loose ends, like Pacman, coming out of his program at WV.

Apart from being an annoying thorn in the side of Pete Carroll, is there anything along those lines we saw from Jimmy?

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 9:20 AM ^

Actually looking at JH's record the first 3 years it is I believe only 1 game better than RR's.  Of course Jimbo took over a 1-11 team whereas RR took over a winning team. 

RR ended his 3rd year with major blowout losses to our top rival and in a bowl than decided to sing some Josh Groban....whereas Stanford lost by 4 to Oklahoma in the same year they upset top 10 Oregon and USC.   Just looking over the record that year every loss for Stanford but 1 was by a TD or less, and the other 1 was by 10 pts.

Meanwhile RR's BEST losses were by 10 pts in year 3.  The others were by 17, 20, 30, and 38.

Trends matter.  But generally yes I think a coach should get 4 years.

bighouse22

November 1st, 2014 at 2:38 PM ^

Yes, agreed and the data also suggest you should see improvement year over year.  Hoke has his 4th year and has failed miserably!

If this is in reference to RR, I think it is clear that he should have gotten a 4th year.

JamieH

November 1st, 2014 at 9:12 AM ^

Jim clearly KNOWS he isn't a strong defensive coach (which makes a lot of sense considering he's a former QB) and he also seems to know when his defense isn't performing up to snuff and goes out makes changes, working until he finds a DC that gets s*** done.  That's worth something.  Very very few coaches can manage both sides of the ball by themselves. 

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^

True but we dont want him churning through DCs yearly as we have 70th ranked defenses anually while he tries to find a DC that works.  Of his past 8 years, he has had 5 good defense years - all with the same DC.  If that DC doesnt come to AA (if Jim was hired) we are back in the same boat with an unknown DC quantity unless he goes out and gets a Muschamp.  It is critical if he returns to the college game he finds a top end DC.

Mr Miggle

November 1st, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^

post-Fangio. It's very hard to know how much credit a DC deserves compared to the rest of the staff. I appreciate your work, but I wouldn't give too much weight to statistics early in a rebuilding project. The important point is what you are able to build, not what each step along the way looks like.

schreibee

November 1st, 2014 at 5:14 PM ^

Agreed! As a Bay Area Blue, I feel like I get the chance to observe Harbaugh & Stanford in real-time and not just statistical snapshots in retrospect. The type of things a purely statistical analysis misses are big wins over rivals (including beating "unbeatable" USC in LA as a nearly 50 pt dog). Beating other very highly ranked teams, playing close, well-played games even in losses, figuring out what went wrong and fixing it when needed. I think the closest parallel to Harbaugh's impact in SF I could hypothesize is if someone took over Indiana and had them in the Rose Bowl in year 2, getting the #1 recruit/future #1 overall draft pick signed in year 3. THEN took the Lions to the NFC title game every year and a SB in 1st 3 years. I think this is the very definition of what the phrase "Do Want" was coined to cover?!

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 5:28 PM ^

Hi.  Just want to note in all my other CC posts I looked at major wins and losses every year of that team/coach.  I didnt do it for Jim because most know his story and I didnt want to add another 1000 words to this post - I wanted to just focus on how his offenses and defenses stacked up with stats and where the strengths and weaknesses are.

In fact, in almost EVERY CC thread for the past month I have cited Harbaugh's wins in year 3 as examples of what you should see in a coach.  Even if the Win Loss is not great (8-5) you should see signs of a breakthrough vs superior talent.  I almost always note the Oregon and USC games in year 3 for Harbaugh.  And in this post I noted in the comments sections how his losses in year 3 were all close.  So yes I look at that - I just didnt break it down in this post since that wasn't the topic.   It's actually why I am not high on Dan Mullen.  If Mullen was so great he could have 8-5 records in the SEC West in year 3-4 and beat a LSU or Auburn at some point in year 3-4.  Instead he just beat up on bad teams for 5 years.  He is also supposed to be a QB guru but he never had a QB for 5 years - why could he not develop one with all the talent in the south?  Even if the record was average for Miss State he should have had a Texas Tech type team that can score 40 pts and lose 50-40 if he was an offensive guru.  So yes I look at that stuff.

schreibee

November 1st, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^

Thanks for clarifying 96. 2 things re: DC - 1) you glossed over Shafer in Harbaugh's 1st Stanford season, but he clearly improved them enough that we poached him. 2) Everyone by now knows the rumors of fractures in the SF hierarchy, but no one in the local media here ever discusses how Fangio fits in...i.e. loyal to Harbaugh or possible successor? If he's not interested in a HC opportunity, or conversely the Niners new coach wants his own guy, Fangio may join a Harbaugh Michigan staff for a year or two anyway before returning to the NFL. He set Stanford up sufficiently that as another poster noted they're still a top NCAA D 4 years down the road.

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 6:22 PM ^

Yes I dont know much about Fangio or where his heart it.  He has been an NFL guy his entire life but 1 year.  Its a different job - going on the road for a lot of the year, and recruiting kids.  I asked about him on another thread and peopple seemed to indicate San Fran mght elevate him to HC.  But who knows.  If he had been a college coach for 8 years and NFL for 12 it would be a little different; its just such a different set of work in college with the recruiting.  He could also be thankful to the Harbaughs who have employed him since 2008 and come with Jim.  No way to know now - it would be a boon for him to join Jim (if Jim comes).

NateVolk

November 1st, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^

There are two other components with that defense worth considering. 

Stanford recruits better generally on offense. Offensive focused players are often better students because offense can be less about pure raw athleticism than defense. The assignments on defense can be complex as well, but it's more about turning athletes loose and letting them make plays.

The defense would necessarily take more time to develop because it would take a few years to get undervalued recruits on campus and coach them up/get them stronger. See Michigan State's defense first 3 years under Dantonio. It wasn't really all that good.

A guy like Sherman was an exception to the level of recruits Stanford was getting defensively.

The other component is the bias towards offense of the conference Stanford is in.

I haven't checked but I doubt even Jim's best defense had the recruiting cache he'd inherit at Michigan.

leu2500

November 1st, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^

Stanford? For example, from what you've said/what the numbers show, passing didn't improve until he got"his" quarterback."  And until "his" quarterback was in his 2nd year.  

I'm especially curious wrt the defensive roster. Changing DC's every year? Is that because they weren't getting it done, or were they dealing with youth like UM has ben on offense, and maybe some of DC churn might be better attributed to impatience?    

NateVolk

November 1st, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^

Luck was his big get. Turned things big time for what Jim was trying to do. Everyone wanted him.

He was the best college quarterback I've ever seen. It didn't hurt getting him.

What I like about the fit with Michigan is you have those same sell points with the elite education a kid can receive.

I like what Harbaugh was able to do with both Smith and the current quarterback with the 49ers. It seemed like a great job maximizing the skill set of each guy.

You see that on display with Cook at Michigan State. He's a product of great player development as much as I hate to admit it.

steve sharik

November 1st, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^

Dude signed a big contract extension that was probably orchestrated by his agent the moment the Brandon news broke.

Now, that doesn't preclude us from landing him, but the price tag just went up beyond his value, in my opinion.

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 4:49 PM ^

Wow thanks for that info.  That sucks, good for UK though.

The new deal, which includes a prorated raise for the remainder of this season, adds another year and will pay him a total of $21.45 million through the 2019 season. His guaranteed compensation escalates each season, up to $3.25 million next year and $4.25 million by the final year.

 

J.Madrox

November 1st, 2014 at 9:58 PM ^

Stoops did just sign a big extension, but all the talk on-line was over the fact that the contract did not have a buyout. So if Michigan wanted to make a run at Stoops they could without having to worry about forking over a large amount of cash for a buyout.

Don't know if they will pursue him or not, but I don't think the new contract actually makes his situation that different from Michigans perspective.

TheBoLineage--

November 1st, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^

R2-Harbaugh.  What Harbaugh did-done with Stn-SnF really IS Profound.  Esp--  since Harbaugh comes from The Dull-Boring BoLineage System.

 

Harbaugh is the product of DECADES of Mch-OC Lineage Stuff too, etc etc.

 

The R2-Apologists, who GLOB onto Harbaugh at this point, are not allowed to do this.  They must Go With R2 All The Way to The END of this, whether Harbaugh comes or not.

 

The Harbaugh-O is really a re-worked Schembechlerism--  which is EXACTLY what The R2 Movement is STILL trying to get away from

 

 

funkifyfl

November 1st, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^

Thanks for putting this together - being objective at this time is a worthwhile exercise so people don't go bonkers if Jim isn't hired. As we've all seen this year, developing QBs is such a huge part of the job description and JH is a whisperer. I don't know how other top candidates compare in this regard, but that, moreso than Jim's connections to the program, put him at the top of the list. I also really like that he's quick to replace underperforming assistants. In your analysis, you mentioned that Graham's stats were impressive, both offense and defense. Based on your statistical analysis, is graham the best candidate?

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^

Thanks for the comments.  I think some of the intangibles Harbaugh bring obviously no other candidate bring.  He is also a tireless worker and obsessive which is Sabanlike.  He also does very well with QBs and if he has a bad assistant on his staff wont hide them away for seniority reasons.  He also is not going to take the Meyer Dantonio crapola.  I mean there are some intangibles only Harbaugh can bring.  I am more than happy with a Harbaugh hire but its not going to be a 1 year turnaround if he comes.

I think guys like Graham, Snyder, and Patterson are top 15 coaches in the NCAA along with Kelly, Dantono and Meyer.  We need a top 15 coach to compete bottom line.  Snyder is obviously not leaving KSU and Patterson has zero reason to leave TCU (he has been there since 98 and has a top 10 team in a conference that is not loaded like the SEC, in a hotbed of talent).  So that leaves Graham which is why I bring him up.  I think he should be candidate #2 after Harbaugh and ahead of Mullen but that's me looking ONLY at football.  For other UM fans they look at other intangibles and dont like the way he left previous jobs. 

What i see is a guy who matches Kevin Sumlin on offense and plays good defense (defensive FEI stats in 20s/30s in his 3 years at ASU).  Everone loved them some Sumlin around here but guy doesnt care about defense.  Graham lost 9 defensive starters and is playing 3 true freshman in the Pac 12 - yet their defense is better than ours already.  His QB is a 2 star he developed whose only offer was Nevada.  Their 2 deep has 7 seniors on it.  And they are 7-1 in a much better conference.  I also love that he identified Malzahn and Chad Morris - those were his OCs at Tulsa.  And he is a no nonsense coach who never say "I'm fucking sorry" to Dantonio. 

He is no home run - no one is - he doesnt have Midwest roots or relationships etc and maybe he would be another RichRod but his track record is a lot better than Mullen IMO.  Who also has a lack of Midwest roots other than being born here.  "Midwest roots" to me means having great relationships with HS coaches so Mullen has the same issue Graham would have here.  Mullen had no signature win in 5 years prior to this year and has the benefit of lots of JUCOs down at Miss State which he would not here.  Pac 12 recruiting is a lot more like Big 10 hence why I think Graham could repeat what he is doing for ASU here.

If I were Florida I'd have Graham as my head coach on Dec 1.

Double-D

November 1st, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^

QB development is huge and very few will do it better and with more authority given his experience. He has the guts and the vision which he showed when he chose Kaepernick over the 1st round golden boy Smith to lead his team. I would think every top QB in HS would listen to a Harbaugh offer. The guy is so competitive he won't miss a detail from staff to players to OC, DC, STeams, S&C. He knows how to win. If he comes to Michigan he knows that 90+% of the time he will walk onto the field with a talent advantage.

EGD

November 1st, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^

Another factor to consider is that the Harbaugh at Stanford was not a proven coach. Now he is. If he were to take the M job, I think it would be easier for him to succeed more quickly because his track record will draw top recruits and assistants.

BornSinner

November 1st, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^

We could have hired him in 07 but good ole Lloyd said no. That combined with Jim's comments about UM academics vs Stanford's made the relationship quite rocky... 

 

Which is why I don't think he'll come back... The dude is so awkward when it comes to mentioning his alma mater... Clearly he still has some type of grudge against the Michigan Brass (whether this can be healed who knows) 

 

It seems like John cares more about UM than Jim does at this point given the rumors from the past couple of years about John. 

UMinSF

November 1st, 2014 at 3:32 PM ^

Sure, in hindsight it's obvious JH would have been a great hire back then, but his entire head coaching experience conisted of a few years at University of San Diego.

Don't confuse that with San Diego State. USD is an FCS school that plays in a conferece with Evansville and Campbell. No athletic scholarships. 

That said, JH did a great job preparing himself to be a coach. Even when he played with the Colts, he was an unpaid assistant for his dad at Western Kentucky, and his first assistant job was turning Rich Gannon into a pro-bowler and Super Bowl QB.

I don't know where people get the idea JH doesn't like Michigan. He was probably disappointed that he didn't get the job before, and he's famously irascible, but he is obviously, deeply blue.

 

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^

In 2007 he had basically coached 3 years at Colorado School of Mines equivalent.  Good for Stanford but that was a 1-11 team who could take a chance.  Harbaugh was not ver proven at all in 07.  Brian Kelly at that time at GVSU and CMU had a better resume.

Jason80

November 1st, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^

The biggest issue I'd take is in ignoring what Jim has done since Stanford in taking a "they should be in the playoffs" Niners team and turning them instantly into a "they might win the Super Bowl" team and with 2 different quarter backs. That resume then of out performing Bill Walsh at Stanford and achieving the unprecented NFL final four in his first three seasons would have us realizing that coach Smith who played qb at Nebraska is a pipe dream to come to Ann Arbor. The only reason we may be in the conversation is because he is one of ours. But you did create it as an analysis at Stanford only so I won't gripe much.

NateVolk

November 2nd, 2014 at 7:29 AM ^

It is the only reason.  You are correct.

I've heard that he is still real close with guys like Kolesar and other teammates. They talk Michigan constantly and follow the program with great passion.  It's personal for Jim when Michigan suffers on the field. Make no mistake.

That's a bid edge in landing him.

aiglick

November 1st, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^

This was certainly interesting any may suggest it would take 2-3 years for him to turn this around. I think when you look at Stanford and San Francisco he's shown he can have a lot of success. He will need a great staff in order to succeed here.

I think we do have some very good coordinators but our positional coaches are just not that good and have helped to lead to the current state of our program. Hoke doesn't strike me as having a lot of influence anywhere; it's amazing and still hard to believe but the characterization of him being an overpaid cheerleader may be more true than false.

I just will never understand how Hoke claps through everything. Even last week against one of our rivals we turn the ball over clap * clap * clap. It's just insane but whatever we're probably getting a new coach and staff. Hopefully we, in the words of the knight from Indiana Jones, choose wisely this round.

 

alum96

November 1st, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

This is not a 1 year turnaround even if Lombardi showed up next year.  The offense next year is going to be "challenged" again.  I see it as 2-3 years even with a home run hire.

But to your other point this is one of my favorite things about Harbaugh.  He will replace underperforming position coaches (or coordinators) with no regret.  None of this grandfathering bullshit, none of this "we'll give him another 2 years to see if he can work his way out of it". 

Position coaching is the least appreciated part of college football - the ability to not just know stuff but teach it to a bunch of wide eyed guys with nothing but HS coaching when they show up is critical.   I think Harbaugh would upgrade the position coaching immediately and if he makes any errors on that front they will nbe rectified in short order.  And now with his reputation he will draw good position coaches a lot easier than he could have at Stanford.