This Week's Obsession: Minneapolis is Still in Play
I GUESS WE SHOULD ADDRESS THIS:
NBA storylines we'll be monitoring in the NCAA tournament: Juwan Howard, No. 1 pick candidates, mid-major prospects, upperclassmen vying for first round consideration and more (with @Mike_Schmitz)https://t.co/b5aP8xn8Wu
— Jonathan Givony (@DraftExpress) March 17, 2021
Seth: Hope Howard buys Jim a steak and milk with the money that used to be his.
BiSB: /Homer into the bushes and re-emerging meme/
Harbaugh NFL rumors
Howard NBA rumors
For those who don't know NBA Media... is this the same insular "The Shield is life" attitude, or would there be some meat behind it?
Brian: I have a hard time believing he'd leave before Jace and Jett are done.
Ace: Same here. NBA media aren’t as militant as NFL because, aside from basketball drawing better journalists than football in general, they’re more willing to acknowledge that they are two different games with different draws.
They will also acknowledge job security in a way NFL guys did not. The nba is ruthless, meanwhile Howard could be here forever.
BiSB: For immediate purposes, it feels like "Howard might leave for the NBA" rumors are less damaging for recruiting purposes in basketball than football, at least for top-flight guys.
Ace: I don’t think anyone is taking them too seriously.
BiSB: True, but even if they persist.
Alex: Also important to draw a distinction between “NBA wants Juwan” (which... of course. I can’t believe Minnesota hired Flip’s failson instead of him.) and “Howard interested in NBA.” I don’t know if anyone would offer him Full Control like SVG had with the Pistons or whatever but I’m sure there will be interest from pretty much every team that may have an opening.
Ace: FWIW the NBA as a whole has been pretty bad about promoting longtime black assistants and that may sour Howard on the league a bit. Seeing Steve Nash get a head coaching job with zero experience after he got passed up multiple times has to stick. They’re talking about maybe needing an NBA version of the Rooney Rule.
[After THE JUMP: Who’s worried not worried]
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Alex: Maybe this is just wishcasting but I do feel like the cultural side of the college game appeals to Howard in terms of mentorship and relationships with the players.
Ace: Meanwhile Howard almost got a top assistant hired as a head coach in two years.
Alex: He’s not gonna get bossed around by a star, but he’s also not gonna have 10-day and G league guys floating on and off the roster.
Ace: I agree, I think the relationship aspect of the college game appeals to him.
BiSB: A lot of the stuff written when he was hired seems reeeeeally dumb in hindsight, and the inherent racism is almost impossible to read out of it.
/glances toward Valenti
Ace: Valenti even went so far as to backtrack on his initial take, which really requires a lot.
Brian: I think there was a surface-level "NBA to college doesn't work" take that was pretty dumb... and then you have some sportz talk guys going beyond that. Like people were comparing Howard to guys like Chris Mullin, who'd literally never coached.
Ace: Yeah, there was a lot of downplaying his experience as an assistant and the fact he spent the last few years as a player basically serving as a player/coach. Plus, Miami’s franchise has been one of the best and most forward-thinking in the NBA as well as having one of the better player development programs. Howard got credit for plenty of that while he was still there.
Brian: So yeah now two years in he's gone from Chris Mullin to hot NBA name du jour.
BiSB: No pressure, Indiana.
Brian: PSU hiring Shrewsberry seems like a clear "let's try the Howard path" hire.
Ace: Well, he’s getting a clean slate to build that program, at least.
Penn State transfer portal update hits six players with Lundy joining the list: https://t.co/z2xdO7xLAI
— Ben Jones (@Ben_Jones88) March 16, 2021
Alex: Shrewsberry did come up through the college game until he was hired by Stevens in Boston.
Brian: Well, he's going to get a lot of runway now. PSU coaches usually do. But anyway, back to Juwan.
Alex: I think you're right in that Juwan's likely to stay at least until Jace and Jett are done with college hoops. I could see him trying his hand at the next level someday. But he does really seem to like the college game.
Ace: Howard seems really tough to replicate, though, even putting aside the fact he’s a mega-famous alum. The level of coaching and playing experience is really, really high for someone who didn’t have a head job before. He’s the most-liked person in the world outside of College Park, Maryland. Then add in that he was in the Fab Five and shed tears of joy when he was hired.
Brian: I engage in the same wishcasting as Alex because of that. I kind of feel like this guy is inclined to stick around.
Alex: Patrick Ewing is the best comparison and until their run through the Big East tournament... it really did not work out.
Brian:
[Marc-Grégor Campredon]
Ace: NBA guy: he’s devastated he had to settle for the college game.
Alex: The quotes from players about how great of a guy he is and how much he cares... you don't see that with many college coaches. Sure, he could build those kinds of bonds in an NBA franchise because of his personality, but it's not the same. Especially because he's at a place that means so much to him.
Brian: Also the Chaundee Brown locker room video is something.
Yea we were able to get a key road win, however, it’s moments like this that really makes this team winners.
— Michigan Men's Basketball (@umichbball) February 15, 2021
Congrats Chaundee!#GoBlue 〽️#WolverineCulture#LockedIn pic.twitter.com/9bzVJPYrpw
I'm never going to say that a coach definitely won't leave after Beilein but I feel like if and when Howard goes it'll be after a long run at Michigan.
Ace: There are several Senior Day photos that could go here, too. Maybe we’re all in denial but it really feels like the fit is too good here for Howard to leave before adding some serious hardware to the trophy case.
BiSB: It also helps that he's primed to enjoy significant on-court success for the next many years.
Alex: Hopefully the athletic department forks over the money to put him at the top of the conference. The contract he signed was fair for a guy who'd never been a head coach at any level. It's not fair for a National Coach of the Year.
Ace: Yes, it’s certainly worth considering which NBA jobs will actually open up, and whether coaching those teams would be more fun than coaching the #1 class in the country plus whoever comes back from this one-seed next year. Give Howard a blank check and also let him name the length of the contract.
Brian: This article speculates that Sacramento, Washington, Atlanta, and Milwaukee might open.
Seth: With Beilein at least we knew he had thought about the NBA because he interviewed with the Pistons the year before. Howard so far has said nothing but "Hard no" to overtures. I expected the NBA to ask, since Howard was in line to be an NBA coach until Michigan opened up, but in basketball coaching the chance to be a college legend at your alma mater >>> taking over a middlesome NBA team.
Alex: I'm imagining Minnesota's brass calling his agent like "hey sorry we didn't hire you last time but uh wyd."
Counterpoint: The NBA has better donuts. [Marc-Grégor Campredon]
Ace: Milwaukee would be an intriguing job to open up because they’re a legit title contender that hasn’t gotten over the hump, plus Giannis is locked in to a max extension. Atlanta has some interesting talent. The other options—I don’t think those are the ones to jump at, and I’m not sure the more interesting jobs actually open up.
Alex: Milwaukee should have made a move after last season, but that's neither here nor there. Howard seems genuinely happy at Michigan, which matters a lot. It's pretty obvious too.
Ace: Also, if the Bucks are going to fire Budenholzer, I wonder if they’d be looking at a more established NBA coach. We now circle back to the problem with NBA hiring, which is largely the same as NFL hiring, but in this case it could benefit Michigan.
Brian: There is something to be said for the fact that Howard has essentially infinite job security at Michigan.
Ace: Compared to the NBA, I’d say that’s extremely important.
Alex: Indeed. He was part of a great situation in Miami but those situations are few and far between. San Antonio comes to mind. Beyond that? Not many.
Ace: We’re talking about Milwaukee potentially firing their coach and they’re one of the best teams in the league.
Seth: And look at the class he's bringing in. I think basketball is way more who-you-get than football in that regard, so it's not like Juwan's star is likely to plummet and he needs to cash in when he's a hot commodity.
Brian: So:
- Jace and Jett
- Emotional introductory press conference
- #1 recruiting class
- Not a lot of great NBA options
- Loves mentoring aspect of CBB
- Michigan can and will pay him
Alex: Look what happened to Dwane Casey in Toronto. It's a cold world out there.
Ace: [looking at Warde Manuel and Stephen Ross and Al Glick all at once somehow]
Michigan CAN and WILL pay him.
Brian: We're all so jumpy because of Beilein to the Cavs.
Alex: Michigan had BETTER pay him or else there are going to be several extremely angry bloggers picketing Crisler.
BiSB: With Beilein, though, you knew he could return to the college game at Not Michigan and be roughly as happy. Michigan is presumably different for Howard than Not Michigan.
Brian: The last thing I'm worried about is the Michigan Money Cannon failing to shower Howard appropriately.
Ace: Yeah, if Indiana boosters can single-handedly fund Archie Miller’s firing, we’re good.
Beilein was clearly sick of losing his finds to the NBA, and clearly wasn’t down for doing what most other teams do to keep them. [JD Scott]
Seth: I'm not jumpy from Beilein. Beilein:
- Was at a different point in his career,
- Had much less to prove in college,
- Had a ceiling with how he recruited that was an endless source of frustration for him,
- Had already investigated an NBA job seriously the year prior.
Brian: Well I'm jumpy.
Alex: I think with any coach, there's an intense desire to compete. If Howard feels that the competition level is higher in the NBA, maybe he'd entertain making the move. But I'm with you guys: if that ever happens, it's probably going to be a while. The NBA will doubtlessly take a pass at him every offseason until then. But you can't beat Maryland's ass three times every year with the Memphis Grizzlies or whatever.
Ace: I’d certainly prefer the rumors didn’t exist. At the same time, I’m still in the camp that it’s pretty unlikely for at least a few years. The NBA will still be there for him.
Brian: Beilein seemed to get really tired of recruiting bullcrap and frustrated at the general inaccessibility of higher-level guys. Emphatically not a problem for Howard.
BiSB: For recruiting purposes, do the rumors almost help with the 5-star types?
Seth: Also: 5. Beilein had never been to the NBA. Howard isn't laying in bed at night wondering what he'd be on that level. There's no magic castle there for him to imagine.
Alex: Bryan's right that Michigan is special to Juwan. I mean, we all went there. We all saw his press conference. We've all gotten BTB drunk at 2:30 in the morning.
Ace: Alex, you’re showing your youth, BTB arrived when I was in high school.
Seth: Sigh. BTB opened right after I graduated. But Spot's drunk, yes.
Alex: We all went to a Final Four as students. Right?
Ace: …
Seth: Uh, we counting Frozen ones?
Alex: [showered with rotten fruit]
I'd think the only NBA job that you'd really have to worry about is Miami, given that there seems to be a lot of loyalty and attachment between the organization and people who have been within it. But I don't think that job's coming open anytime soon.
I was going to post the exact same sentiment. I see Juwan being an heir apparent to take over for Spoelstra, when Spoelstra moves up to take over for Riley. But that doesn't seem like it is in the near term future.
One thing that stands out about Juwan as a coach is that he seems to be very "fundamentals" focused like Beilein was (maybe not to the same level, but still). JH was basically a poor-mans version of Tim Duncan. Not overly athletic, but fundamentally sound and disciplined, which allowed them both to play into or close to their 40s. (seeing more comparisons, TD was a 4-year player at Wake and JH was a three year player at UM but actually graduated soon after leaving). I think that profile is usually makes a good coach, especially at the college level. I mean seeing the development of the big men and how everyone can post up has been great. Watching the footwork on defense is another thing that stands out to me. All-in-all, it is a very well coached team, whose sum is greater than it parts.
Add to all this, his Fab Five and Miami Heat swagger, the connections from being a father that was very involved in the AAU and Chicago-prep basketball scenes, and and a genuinely relatable and likeable personality, and you have the makings of an elite college level coach, and potentially (but hopefully not soon), NBA coach. I know it is early, but I would not be at all surprised to see Juwan end up as a hall of famer as a basketball coach.
I firmly believe Coach Juwan will be here for at least 5 years, probably more. He's values-driven, has a clear vision of what he wants to create, and the means to get it done. Timing is perfect for his sons and their college careers. He's building a player-centric, Championship culture.
As long as the administration pays him fairly (clarly he is going to need a big raise after this year), the future is very, very bright.
I think after he wins a couple of chips and gets the program elevated, with a heir-apparent coach, then he'll consider moving to the NBA.
Are we at all worried about rotten billionaire mortgage weasel MSU alums offering Juwan like literally $100M to go to the NBA?
He already has $100M+ from his playing career, so I don't think that will be his motivating factor. At this point, he wants the relationships and the competition. In college, to stay where his team is today, takes mods from year to year. And you're team starts fresh every 3-4 years with all new players. NBA turn-over is very different, and somewhat unpredictable because of general managers, trades, salary cap decisions, and drafts.
Only one of them is a weasel. Mat's just a guy who switched to basketball because his Mario skills were vastly inferior to mine.
Ace. Several black players came to the defense of hiring Steve Nash.
March 18th, 2021 at 12:01 AM ^
QED?
I expected Howard to leave at some point but I'd be surprised if it's in the next year or two. He's got his kids on the roster and it's his alma mater that he has poised to compete for titles. That undoubtedly matters to him, and as we've seen NBA teams will always be interested in you even if you turn them down initially. So it's unlikely he won't have an option down the line for a good franchise.
Michigan should be able to pay him, though it may be a situation where they backload the contract a bit so they can recover from the revenue downturn due to COVID. And it feels like Howard would probably be good with that; he made so much money playing in the NBA that while I'm sure he wants to get paid he's also not hurting for cash and knows he'd get the money in the end.
In the NBA, there are only a handful of teams each year that have a chance of being champions. In college at a school like Michigan, you have a chance of being champion every year. That's a much more rewarding job.
I'm not really worried about Howard leaving this year or in the next few because he has his kids on the team and that is special, but as per usual I think you guys are vastly underselling the impact of coaching at the higher level period, just like with Beilein. There are only 30 jobs, its the top level in the sport and carries with it the most prestige. There is no such thing as a 'middling' nba job. Michigan fans should be jumpy not because of Beilein but because guys like Donovan and Stevens jumped at the opportunity and have no desire to go back to the college game, and its not like Donovan was struggling with recruiting.
It's possible, but you're also ignoring all the good points they made for Juwan staying. Donovan and Stevens jumped at the opportunity? Donovan was at Florida for 19 years! And he had won 2 national championships. Stevens was at Butler for 6. Sure he made the NC game, but there's no way that would have been a regular thing at Butler. There are plenty of guys who stay in college. We don't know what Juwan is thinking.
My point was less specifically about Howard, like I said I think he stays at Michigan, and more a commentary on how an NBA job is perceived. Like I said there is no such thing as a 'middling' NBA job. From a neutral fan perspective every single NBA job is better than any college job. Of course there can be individual circumstances that change that for an individual. Its more the tone around the relative pull of the NBA in the discussion that I was commenting on. It was the same with Beilein, 'why would he ever go to the NBA, he's successful here'. The NBA is the top of the ladder, its the same sort of reason Beilein left WVU for Michigan, why Stevens left Butler, why Donovan left Florida (he wasn't previously getting NBA offers) why Hoiberg left Iowa state, etc. There aren't plenty of guys who stay in college, 99.9% of college coaches wouldn't even make a list to be interviewed for an NBA job, let alone get an interview and an offer after that. My guess is the list is of guys who actually turned down offers is pretty much K
March 18th, 2021 at 12:03 PM ^
Jay Wright has turned down lots of opportunities and I bet there are a few others recently as well.
There are only 30 jobs, its the top level in the sport and carries with it the most prestige. There is no such thing as a 'middling' nba job.
I disagree with this. The NBA goes through so many head coaches and people you've never heard of. I don't think I could name half of the head coaches in the NBA right now. Being loyal to and succeeding with one college team gives you a much better chance at prestige
Way more people watch the nba both domestically and globally. Nba arenas are universally bigger than college and they get more fans over more games. Sure a guy like K who lasts decades and coached the national team is going to have prestige but I’m confident that any coach in the nba has more name recognition than 99% of college coaches and when that’s not true its more likely to be because of not coaching things. If you only can name half the nba coaches it’s because you don’t follow the nba, and more people follow the nba than college basketball. How many coaches could you name in the pac 12?
I might be parochial here, but t doubt there are 30 jobs as a head coach in CBB as desirable as Michigan.
FWIW, CWebb said that he thinks Juwan will retire at Michigan
I think the Jace/Jett factor alone gives me confidence that this isn't a story for the next ~3-4 years. And at that point, we may feel a little differently about this conversation one way or the other. But I do think that he's on a trajectory to establish Michigan as a destination program for players and coaches alike. If he does decide to scratch the NBA itch after that when his sons are gone then maybe we'll have a stable of strong coaching candidates from his tree.
The issue with Beilein was that despite the Pistons flirtation it seemed so sudden - both that he would jump from the situation he was in to a horrible situation in Cleveland and because of the timing itself.
Wake me up in 3-4 years and then we'll see how we feel - perhaps after multiple #1 classes and banners being hung.
Agreed. Waiting until his kids have left Michigan seems like the absolute floor. I also don't expect him to leave for basically any NBA job like Beilein did unfortunately. If he does want to leave, I think he'll be patient with it and wait until a good opportunity opens up.
Howard has reasons to stay here that didn't apply to Beilein. He's been in the NBA for two decades already, plus he has deep ties to Michigan.
Look at a John Thompson type. Who is his counterpart in the NBA? Maybe Popovich? Very very few NBA coaches get to have the long-lasting impact that someone like John Thompson had.
I have no idea what Howard wants for himself. But the potential of being a long-term legend like Thompson or Boeheim or Krzyzewski has to hold some value. And that isn't likely to happen in the NBA.
Plus Howard seems to really enjoy being a mentor to his players, which really isn't what the NBA is about.
Maybe this is all wishful thinking.
Good point. Sure the NBA is the pinnacle in a lot of ways, but how many NBA coaching legends are there? Popovich I guess. Phil Jackson. And...? I could be biased because I watch more college games, but I could rattle off a ton of successful coaches in college who have been around forever. Rosenberg's recent piece on Juwan was good. It mentioned the only downside was talking to the media, but that's not something you have less of in the NBA.
That's also because, aside from certain exceptions like Popovich, the media is much more focused on college coaches as the dominant forces in their programs where it's clearly players (and GMs, I guess) that get the focus in the NBA. College coaches are the people that media members get to know over time and tend to get puffed up, even when they're long past their sell-by date, as you can see with Boeheim, who's still regarded as a "successful coach" even though the game's left him far behind and he's been a mediocrity for basically a decade.
Re: Jace & Jett - there's something to be said for Juwan having that relationship of living in the same city with his kids and only ever traveling with his kids. There was an early writeup on Jace that talked about their relationship. When Juwan was with the Heat he was on the road 41 games/year. Lots of parents have to travel for their job, but here's an opportunity to have 3-4 years where you're living in the same city with your kids, working together with them, etc. I'd have to guess he's not giving up that new bonus family time.
Here's a quote from a freep link: https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2020/10/07/michigan-basketball-juwan-howard/5913211002/
" When I was working for the Miami Heat, dating back to when I was playing professionally, during the offseason, you only get a small window and I try to pour it into my family. … During the season, you feel so guilty even though you have home games. It’s an 82-game schedule and how I'm wired, I’m more focused on what’s my next opponent, who do I have to guard. … You’re watching them grow up but I wasn’t as active as I wanted to be and I thought I was being. Now, I get a chance at a very important stage of his life to be available. I get excited just thinking and watching while he’s in practice and getting the chance to interact and teach him, along with the other staff. "
Chaundee Brown looks like Kevin Hart next to Juwan. (I think Chaundee is awesome BTW. Howard is just big.)
If the Milwaukee job is offered to him, he will 95% take it in my opinion. A job opening with a guy that can win you multiple titles like Giannis comes open about once a decade. He will put in who he think should lead Michigan (most likely Saddi or Eisley) and feel good that he's living his sons with strong coaches and people to turn them into men.
We all love Michigan, so does Juwan. But he was in the league for 20 years. There is literally nothing bigger in the sport of basketball than winning an NBA title.
Hi Sparty! How do you like your chances against UCLA?
Yeah, I just don't see someone going from: "Tears of joy!" to "Peace! I'm going to the NBA" in two years, especially when he's going to get to coach both of his kids.
The NBA might be able to pay more, but the dude already drives a Ferrari and will very likely get PAID at Michigan as well. (Not that rich people don't like to make a ton of money.) I think it really comes down to "Does he have a desire to be a head coach at the highest level" and does that outweigh the emotional attachment he very clearly has to the University of Michigan, and the fun he appears to be having mentoring, dancing with kids after the big wins, hitting backward shots from half court, etc.
I'm inclined to believe Jalen on this one -- that he's not going anywhere AT LEAST until he wins big here.
It's hard to fathom that we went from crossing our fingers and hoping it would work out to "Is there ANYONE you would rather have running this program, all factors considered?" in a two year span. I just love Juwan.
definitely think Jace and Jett will play a role here.
Based on interviews etc, I don't think Juwan would leave Michigan unless its a perfect opportunity especially if Jace and Jett are still here (assuming Jett comes here).
Even then, a guy like Jay Wright has had tons of chances to leave, and he didn't even for the Philly job... I think as long as Juwan feels wanted here, he'll stay here.
If he wins a championship, who knows...competitive fires burn brightly sometimes
How the NBA treats head coaches really does confuse me. Like a coach will lead a team to being a consistent high seed playoff team and then they'll fire that coach and replace him with some random coach thinking that will get them over the hump?
The star player decides one day that he's tired of the coach, and that's that.
Coach seems like someone who knows himself and what's important in life. If he does go to NBA at at some point, sure we will be disappointed, but I think many of us will be genuinely happy for him. Since it will be a thoughtful and heartfelt decision, not "jilting the girl for the next pretty thing" type of ladder climbing.
Frozen Fours and the Rose Bowl...
Alex. So young. Though 2 FFs and 2 Frozen during my tenure on campus. Unfortunately, Lake St. was ridiculously good in hockey during my time at M. Ridiculous.
4 B1G titles in football too (sigh).
Never appreciated how great my 4 years were for M sports. I assumed it would always be that way.
Time to get it back.
Not only do I hope Howard doesn't go to the NBA, I don't think it'd be best for him. I think he has a great basketball mind and would be a fine NBA coach, but I think it's obvious his greatest gifts, where he is generationally elite, are in mentoring and developing, which is much more important in college.
The opportunity to be a legendary coach doesn't really exist in the NBA but does for sure in college. How many legendary coaches are there in the NBA today? How many coaches can the average fan list? I am a casual NBA fan and might be able to name four. Coaches are the constant in a college program and can become the face of a program, an NBA coach will never be the face of a franchise. I think Juwan knows this and is more likely to stick around for the long haul. I also think he likes to mentor young men and college gives him that opportunity more so than the NBA.
The only one I'd worry about is Milwaukee. Getting to coach Giannis might be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and winning an NBA title as a coach is a pinnacle-of-the-mountain achievement.
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