Uche: 3-star. Sitkowski: 4-star. Kwity: low 3-star. Recruiting rankings: require context [Patrick Barron]

Market Inefficiencies in Recruiting Comment Count

CR June 11th, 2020 at 11:25 AM

or How I stopped Worrying and Learned How to Love the NFL Draft [1]

[ED: Craig Ross submitted this a month ago and I finally got around to publishing it]

Certainly, as Brian Cook has argued (and everyone seems to agree), high school five-star players are more likely to be successful than four-star players and 4-star guys are likely to fare better than those with three stars or fewer. As a broad brush, this is easily provable. The problem, of course, is that there are not a lot of 5-star guys (around 25 to a max of 30 in any year) and four-star guys comprise the next 250 or so candidates in any individual year. Let’s call it 300 kids who (more or less) 50 teams are after. Where OSU, Bama, LSU, Clemson and Georgia are picking off a lot of these players, that does not leave a lot for other schools.

Start with the 2020 recruiting year as a way of evaluating the problem for the average to very good Power Five team.

School 5-stars 4-stars Total
Alabama 4 17 21
OSU 3 14 17
Georgia 4 15 19
Clemson 5 12 17
LSU 3 14 17

So, these 5 schools received LOIs 19 of 30 five stars in the year, with Texas AM getting two, Oregon 3, and six other schools getting one. Of the 130 D-1 schools, only 7 convinced more than one five-star to attend.

This bunching of talent continues with four- star recruits, though with so many more such players the dispersion is broader. Still, the five schools listed snapped up 72 of the 4-star guys. That’s about a quarter of the pool and by the time you scroll down to number 25 on the overall team rankings, these four- star guys become thin in number. Iowa, at number 35, has one four-star recruit. Minnesota, coming off a successful season, secured two. Northwestern got one, MSU none, Indiana one, Purdue, at # 33 none, Illinois, none. Historically successful UCLA in a talent rich area brought in no five-star guys, and a mere 4 players listed as four stars.

Some of this might be chalked up to the decay of the rust belt. Populations have moved out of Flint, Michigan and Lorain, Ohio, to go south. Some of it might relate to Moms and CTE. Certainly, in Michigan, the number of participants in high school football is not what it was in the past. In 2007 there were 46,000+ boys playing high school football in the state. In 2018, it was down to 33,500. For Michigan and MSU, certainly, pulling a kid from Georgia is going to be a lot more difficult than pulling a kid from Michigan. The Michigan kid grew up a fan of the Big Ten, probably followed the in-state schools, and is used to weather. Distance from family is no problem.

[After THE JUMP: Factors]

Distance from Talent

The latter condition should be underscored since an SI study from 2009 showed that of the nine schools that won 50 or more games in the 2004-08 period, seven “signed more than half their recruits…from within their home state or within 200 miles from campus” and the eighth signed 49% of their class from such a radius.

Looking at it from another way, the same author (Andy Staples) cites a study from doctoral candidates from FSU who concluded that most important factor in choice of schools for recruits was “distance from home.” The academic reputation of the school provided a “miniscule bump.” Surprisingly, depth chart considerations and the number of players a school sent to the NFL were not primary considerations. Nor was the recent performance of the school. I am a bit skeptical, but I do buy into the “distance from home” part of the equation.

This is a major problem for UM and MSU who tend to share loyalties in the state. Ohio, a state with (on average) twice as many quality players as Michigan in any individual year, has also declined in student-football participation, though it is around 40,000 as far as I can tell. But Ohio has the state to itself---and more or less owns the hearts and minds of its denizens. Even assuming MSU “owns the hearts” (though never the minds) of a mere 25% of the state, OSU starts with a home-grown pool of 40,000. Michigan? Around 25,000. [Growing up in Ohio, all of my siblings despised the Buckeyes. They were, more or less, Mussolini. But we were outliers.]

It isn’t random that Jim Harbaugh’s attempt to run camps all over the country, and particularly the south, went afoul. While complaints from (primarily southern) coaches were generally couched in having to work/compete during their (relative) down times, the truth is that the SEC just didn’t want schools from the north to be able to compete. These camps were, incidentally, the best thing that could happen for kids interested in playing the game since they were inexpensive (as little as $ 10), allowed access to top-flight coaching, and allowed borderline high school players access to smaller programs, where Division 2 and 3 coaches could both help and evaluate the talent at the camps. The NCAA, not really caring about the players (per usual), put an end to it, regardless of the value to kids.

Scott Bell recently wrote a long article about football recruiting that I highly recommend. His article contends, essentially, that Michigan football recruiting has been pretty good, better than anyone in the Big Ten (he has a slight lean to UM over PSU) except for OSU. Bell argues that the fact that OSU has been killing it on the recruiting trail, should not minimize the reality that Michigan has fared well. His analysis shows:

  1. OSU’s average class in the past five years in the Big Ten, is 1.2; that is, they have had the most highly regarded class 4 of five years. Michigan is second at 2.0 (one first, three seconds and a third) and PSU is third at 2.8.
  2. Using a star-per-recruit ranking, OSU was #1 in all of the Harbaugh years, UM was 2.4, PSU at 2.8. Nebraska was still fourth (4.5) and Wisconsin passed MSU to be fifth at 5.8.

Bell then argues it makes no sense to compare Michigan to programs in the south because it is a “waste of time.”

Northern programs have some built-in disadvantages when it comes to recruiting—geography, weather, lack of nearby elite fertile talent pipelines, etc. Northern programs with academic standards have even more built-in disadvantages. What do Joe Burrow and Justin Fields have in common, outside of being really, really good at football? Their final exams consist of completing the first three levels of Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing and sending in 250-word essays on James And The Giant Peach to their Transcendent Literature Of The 20th Century 401 professors. And hey, I’m not knocking their priorities. If I’m a five-star athlete that knows my future is in athletics, I’d have a hard time resisting the temptation to do the exact same thing. But just keep things like that in mind when you’re coming up with what you think reasonable expectations should be for Michigan’s recruiting.

How's Recruiting Been?

I might go out on a very short limb and add “cash” to the list of incentives but Bell seems less jaded than me or just sticking to the known knowns, as opposed to the known unknowns. Despite this, Bell has compiled a listing of NFL draftees in the 2016-2020 period. Bama is number one with 48 total, OSU has 44, LSU has 37, Florida has 32, then Clemson and Michigan have 31. PSU comes in 11th with 23.

Michigan’s Big Ten record over the interim is better than most fans surmise. Michigan has been 32-12, same as PSU, and better than everyone except OSU and Wisconsin, not even adjusting for the absurd losses Michigan had in the interim—PuntGate, Absurdly-Taken-At- Iowa-By John O’Neil-TD Gate, SpotGate, etc. As to Wisconsin, he writes:

Wisconsin has only had to play 14 regular season games against Big Ten East foes over the past five seasons. Michigan has had to play more than double that mark. Wisconsin is 9-5 in those crossover games, compared to 25-5 in games within its own division (Wisconsin is 7-0 against Michigan State, Maryland, Indiana and Rutgers. It is 2-5 against Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State.) I didn’t include Big Ten championship games in the above numbers so it would be an even 34-game sample for everyone. But if I did, Wisconsin’s record against Big Ten East teams would actually be bumped down to 9-8, with a 2-8 mark against The Big Three. So yeah, let’s just save ourselves all some time and not play the Wisconsin card.

Bell concludes that Michigan football is in pretty good shape—top 12 or so shape—but just isn’t where OSU is at, and the juxtaposition seems sharp to most all of us. Well, all of us. For Bell the answer seems to be “develop players better,” though he gives high marks to Ed Warinner and Michael Zordich on that front and he has high hopes for newly hired Bob Shoop.

I agree that if teams are throwing darts at a dart board the five-star guys (as a group) are better than four stars and those are better than three stars. The algorithm is a good one. Nevertheless, I have long been a skeptic of just how good these evaluations are. As I noted in my second book, The Search for the unified Field Theory, an assistant coach at South Carolina (Brad Lawing) claimed that he could move an average plus high school kid to a four star prospect pretty much whenever he wanted---by whispering the right words in the right places. Plus, everyone who follows recruiting has watched some unknown guy commit to Michigan or Clemson and automatically jump into three star range. It is plain as can be that much of defining recruits is backwards evaluative. Kid is being offered by Michigan and Penn State? Gottta be at least a 3 star. Only offered by Vandy and Pitt? Three star, max.

Lawing claimed “I can take a three-star guy and make him a four-star and I can take a four-star guy and make him a three or two-star with the contacts I have. That’s how ridiculous recruiting on the Internet is. I took Chris Culliver (South Carolina safety) from a three-star to a five-star in three weeks. All you’ve got to do is to talk to the right people.”

Now, there is some sense to concluding a kid committing to OSU after being offered by UM, Bama and USC, is probably damned good, even if you haven’t watched one second of the kid play. The coaches at these schools aren’t dopes and aren’t successful for no reason; and they sure as hell, as a group, should be able to evaluate talent. They are not in the business of bringing in kids who they like, regardless of football ability. But doesn’t this mean that at least some part of the evaluative process is just looking at the success of programs over the past few years and deciding that those classes are the best? Isn’t there, at least in some part, the conclusion that Bama or OSU has the best class next year because they had the best teams last year? And the year before that? Isn’t some part of the equation, at least, “kid is going to OSU---push him up; kid is going to Oregon State---he can’t be that good,” right?

Let’s look at the 2020 draft for a moment. I tracked the first 200 picked---guys who one might think would be assets to any college team---and I then looked at each player’s high school rating using the 247 composite. [I don’t claim this is perfect; there may be one or two transcription errors; but it is very close if not exactly accurate.]

  • 15 five-stars
  • 31 top-100 four-stars
  • 18 top-200 four-stars
  • 15 ranked 201-350
  • 13 ranked 351-500
  • 16 ranked 507-700
  • 17 ranked 701-1000
  • 40 ranked 1001-2000
  • 35 ranked 2001+

So, a 32% hit rate, that is, 32% of the players rated in the top 200 out of high school found their way into the top 200 of the 2020 draft. I think that’s pretty good and not a likely anomaly, though I will check other years at some point. Then, 30.5% of the draft comes from numbers 201-1000, with reasonably homogeneous distribution over these levels. That is, 7.5% of those drafted fell into numbers 201-350; 8.5 % came from a range twice as broad, 701-1000.

On the one hand, while the 32% hit rate is pretty good, the opportunities for finding guys who can really play outside of the four-star range is also pretty good. If one defines a four or five star as a top 350 guy, this means 121 of the top 200 players (at least as defined by the NFL draft) were three star guys or less, guys that UM sure as hell would have a good possibility to recruit. Let’s take this team with draft number in parenthesis followed by the composite number.

Offense

  • QB Justin Herbert (#6) #659 or Jordan Love (# 26) # 1,665
  • RB Edwards-Helare (# 32) #378
  • TE Joshua DeGuera (# 94) #2,163
  • OT M. Becton (# 11) # 405, Ezra Cleveland (# 58) #1,812
  • OG Robert Hunt (# 39) # 3,212, Jonah Jackson (# 72) # 1,733
  • C Hennessey (# 78) #2,228
  • WR Justin Jefferson (# 22) # 2,164, Denzel Mims (# 59) # 410

Defense

  • DT Devon Hamilton (#73) # 998, L. Fotu (# 114) #575
  • DE J. Zuninga (# 79) #636, D J Wonnum (#117) #1,304
  • LB I. Simmons (# 8) # 451, K. Murray (# 23) # 434, J. Brooks (# 27) #883
  • CB D. Arnette (#19) # 665, J. Gladney (#31) # 1558
  • S K. Dugger (# 37) Unrated, A. Winfield (#45) #1,415

If Harbaugh had recruited this class Michigan fans would have gone berserk. Not a single five star. Not a single four star!!! 5>4>3. Hell, some of these guys are probably one stars. This looks like the team assembled by the Cleveland Indians in Major League. Yet, all of them went in the first four rounds of the NFL draft. Eight of the eleven listed offensive guys went in the first two rounds. Seven of the eleven defensive guys went in the first two rounds. Assuming the NFL has any idea of what they are doing, you can build a pretty nice team from guys that were strictly “meh” when being recruited.

I noticed some “crowing” by recruiting analysts post draft, some (if tepid) back patting that they had really nailed it with their high school evaluations. I found this a bit odd, since I would have thought this 32% efficiency hit (for a lack of better words) would be within the realm of expectation. Did this mean, perhaps, that the 2020 draft was an outlier?

Well, I don’t really know, and these things take time; it takes me, at least, a couple of hours to look at a draft list and see where the players were rated when coming out of high school. But I did go back and look at 2019, to see if it looked like 2020. Here’s the top 100 in 2020.

5-stars 12
Top-100 4-stars 23
Other 4-stars 17
3-stars 25
1,2 stars 23

In the second 100 it started to water, but the “crowing” seems justified. 52% of the first round comprised 4 or 5 star guys. How about 2019?

5-stars 12
Top-100 4-stars 10
Other 4-stars 15
3-stars 26
1,2 stars 37

Or, looking to bracketed orderings:

0-50 16
51-100 6
101-200 12
201-350 10
351-500 4
501-700 9
701-1000 6
1000+ 37

Here the “efficiency” is less obvious. Plainly, more work needs to be done.

My first thought is that even though 5-star guys are better than 4-star guys, etc., in a macro, dart throwing contest, that really doesn’t define the problem in an adequate way. As a fan, I don’t care whether or not, as a group, five stars are more likely to succeed. I care that the guys Michigan brings into the program succeed, at last at some reasonable rate. The truth is there are profound market inefficiencies. There are numerous guys, every year, who are undervalued, some well undervalued. In the 2020 draft Michigan found a couple of them. Josh Uche, # 707, was drafted (# 60) late in the second round. Khaleke Hudson (# 386) went in the fifth round (# 162). Jon Runyan (#1,138) was drafted in round six (#192). The banality is plain. As a Michigan fan I would prefer one to three-star guys who succeed, as opposed to four or five-star guys who don’t. Here’s Michigan’s 2016-2018 recruiting, clumped by their 247 composite ratings. I apologize if I have missed one or two.

1-50

  • Rashawn Gary (#1). Drafted # 12. Gary was good, but not as good as we hoped.
  • DPJ (# 12). Good but disappointing. Drafted # 187.
  • A. Solomon (# 23) Who knows? Transferred to Georgia.
  • Bredeson (# 39) Drafted # 143. Very good player, slightly below his fanfare.
  • Ruiz (# 43) Drafted # 26 and easily lived up to expectations or better.

Comment: Overall this is a good group, but just good relative to the rankings. Only Ruiz truly lived up to his billing. But all four guys UM kept made game-time contributions. My surmise is that Gary was drafted as much on potential as performance. Guards get devalued in the draft, so maybe Bredson was close to spot-on.

51-100

  • L. Villain (# 57) The jury is out.
  • B. Peters (#61) Transferred to Illinois.
  • David Long (# 65) Drafted # 79. Yep.
  • Asiasi (# 77) Transferred to UCLA. Drafted # 91
  • D. Singleton (# 79). Transferred to Rutgers
  • Onwenu (#87) Drafted # 182. See Bredeson
  • Ambry Thomas (# 90). Yep

Overall, pretty good. At least four of these guys will either play or have a chance to play in the NFL. Asiasi, we barely knew ye. Singleton didn’t work (injuries) and Villain is unclear, right now. It seems likely, from an NFL-draft perspective, all of these guys slightly “underachieved.” OTOH at least 3 were valuable assets for UM, the coaches appropriately targeted Asiasi, and Villain is still in play. Peters? You tell me.

101-150

  • J. Anthony (# 104) Transfer.
  • Ka. Walker (#107) Late faller who transferred to Miss. State
  • Filiaga (# 112) Could this be the year?
  • A. Hutchinson (# 112). Yep. A definite hit.
  • T. Black (#116). Injured. Kept waiting for breakthrough. Transferred to Texas
  • McGrone (#118) Yes
  • K. Crawford (#118). Not much in AA. Transferred to Cal.
  • McCaffery (# 123) Let’s hope.
  • La. Hill (# 132). I don’t care what the pros think. He was good at UM.
  • Nico Collins (# 138). Yep

All over the place. Four of ten definite hits. Three definite misses. Two still plausible. I think I would guess a 50/50 hit rate in this range and that’s what it looks like. Par?

151-200

  • M. Muhammad # 168 Transferred to Houston. Not much in AA
  • Spider Sims #170. Transferred to Ga Tech. Ditto
  • O. Martin #180. Transferred to Iowa. Ditto
  • Blowout. Maybe this is a range JH should avoid.

201-250

  • J. Milton # 204 Who knows?
  • J. Ross # 211 Looks like a starter this year
  • J. Hudson # 231 Transferred to Cincy? Nothing in AA
  • Irving-Bey # 249 Transferred. Nothing in AA
  • J. K. Powell # 250 Transferred. Not much in AA

For a group of guys solidly in the four-star range, this doesn’t seem too good to me. Of the 8 guys in the 150-250 range, this is disappointing. Only two of the 8 have any chance of game-time value in AA.

251-300

  • Malone-Hatcher # 268. Medicaled. Torn Achilles in HS.
  • Mayfield # 268 Bingo!!!! Starting tackle and looks certain for the NFL
  • Samuels # 269 Transferred to New Mexico State. Nothing in AA except legal troubles.
  • Jeter #289 Getting late fast, but still in play.
  • Ron Johnson # 298. Getting late faster but still in play.

Comment: Continues the trend of # 100 plus. Mayfield a major asset, probably an NFL player. Otherwise, maybe Johnson or Jeter will break out.

301-350

  • J. Hall # 301. Transfered to CMU. No progress at UM.
  • C. Kemp # 310. Not an NFL guy, but might yet be a factor for UM
  • D. Bush # 312. Drafted # 8. Borderline 3/4 star hits big.
  • C. Evans # 334. Pretty good at UM with a viable future.
  • Hayes # 335. Possible starter this year at OT.
  • St. Juste # 338. Mistake by UM? Starter at Minny and played very well.
  • Eubanks # 344. Probable starter at TE with future in NFL

Comment: So, this group, high three stars or low four stars, did very well. Six of the seven have started at UM.

St. Juste is a starter and star at Minnesota.

351-400

  • Steuber #365 Has started some. Might start in 2021.
  • McDoom # 380 Transferred to USF. Some success at UM.
  • Geman Green # 382. Still around.
  • J. Woods # 383 Transferred to Duke. Played a bit in AA.
  • K. Hudson # 386 Started for two years. Drafted # 162

Comment: Pretty good. Hudson and Steuber certainly had/have value on the field. McDoom and Woods played some, at least.

401-500

  • Honigford # 411 Competing this year
  • Hawkins # 425 Starter in 2021.
  • Paea # 458. Still fighting for a spot
  • Kwity Paye # 487 Jackpot
  • Mbem-Bosse # 491. Non football problems. Left program

Comment: Maybe a 60% hit rate here. 40% minimum.

501-700

  • C. Turner # 508 Will compete for PT this year
  • Upshaw # 561 Competing for a spot
  • Nate Johnson # 590 Flashes at UM. Transferred to Tenn.
  • Faustin # 592 Competing
  • Van Sumerin #624 May yet find a role
  • Welschoff # 645 Competing
  • V. Gray # 700 Probable Starter

Comment: Hard to say at this moment how this group pans out.

701-1500

  • Uche # 707 Drafted # 60 by NFL
  • K. Davis # 731 Transferred pretty quickly to UAB
  • Spanellis # 735 Decent player and great student. Grad transfer to Vandy
  • Metellus # 739 Starter for two years, drafted # 205
  • Barrett # 751 Probable starter at Viper
  • Schoonmaker #796 Will play in 2021
  • Mason #817 Anyone want to pass on him? Not me.
  • McKeon # 854 Played a lot and started in AA; Undrafted FA
  • Kurt Taylor # 917 Transferred early
  • Dwumfour #947 Potential starter grad transferred to Rutgers
  • Haskins # 975 Will carry the ball a lot
  • Gill # 997 Played a lot. Started 14 games. Grad transfer to USF
  • German Green # 1,225. Still around
  • R. Bell # 1,473! Starter, potential NFL player

Comment: This is surprising. Every one of these guys, save for Davis and Taylor (early transfers) and German Green, made some game-time contribution to the program or is quite likely to. All but the transfers and Green have or are likely to start a game at UM. Some, at least Uche, Metellus, Bell, McKeon, Haskins (my opinion) have legit shots in the NFL.

What are the conclusions from all of this? First, of course, the data points are quite limited. One would need a lot more evidence before coming to much of anything concrete. Still, isn’t it a bit surprising that the guys rated over 700 have tended to pan out, while guys in the 150-300 range have not. Let me guess this, as a starting hypothesis---that players between the 150-1000 range are very hard to distinguish and predict. It is, of course, hard to project most any player. Kids are growing. Competition levels are uneven. Some kids (thinking about guys like Kugler or Kalis) may have been so well coached and trained before coming to UM that their ceilings weren’t far away. Other guys (thinking about Uche or Bell) may have been so new to the game, so raw, that their high school techniques and production would blossom in a more sophisticated environment. Here are some working ideas, until they are proven untenable:

1. Jim Harbaugh and his staff have had a difficult time bringing high level (top 100) guys into the program. In the three-year period from 2016 to 2018 these totaled 12. Of these only 8 lasted for any duration. However, of the eight who stayed seven were productive at Michigan, while one (Villain) remains a question. Looking to the years 2019 and 2020, the trend is downward. Michigan inked 3 top 100 guys in 2019 and none in 2020, about as few in any two-year period as I can recall. That said, the 2019 class looks quite good. At least six guys (Dax Hill, Charbonnet, Cornelius Johnson, Giles Jackson, Eric All, Mike Sainristl) showed something on the field, quite a few for a freshman class. Rumors about others are strong including # 554 Zach Carpenter, who may be destined to start at center. It is hard for me to imagine that Chris Hinton or Mazi Smith won’t be productive. I really like the tape of Quintel Kent (#958) and since my last prediction on point (Haskins) worked out, I guess I am willing to go out on another limb where I probably shouldn’t be. What is undeniable (assuming I haven’t miscounted) is that UM, over a five-year period, brought in 15 top 100 guys.

I find this hard to believe but maybe Christian Dawkins is right, that recruiting in football is “even worse” than in basketball, that unless you are willing to provide benefits to players beyond what the NCAA allows you are not getting your foot in the door. Still, we are not talking about 15 five-star guys. We are talking about 15 guys in the top 100, three of whom were 5-stars.

2. Ohio State, as a salient comparison (not counting transfers like Justin Fields) brought in 44 top-100 guys over the same period, and that included 14 in a single year, 2018. The “good news” is that they have signed “only” 11 in the past two years. Is this a gap (44 to 15) that can be overcome? I answer this question with a “yes,” if Michigan is really, really good at evaluating talent and finding the talent that can grow. The “team” I pulled out from the recent NFL draft, for certain, would likely trample OSU, assuming the NFL knows what it is doing.

Plus, what really has been the difference between UM and OSU over the Harbaugh era? Certainly, it is fair to suggest that OSU just has better players. But my guess is the core of the problem has been QB play. OSU has killed it at the position (Joe Burrow, the # 1 pick, was blocked on the depth chart at OSU) while Michigan has struggled over the Harbaugh era pretty much every single year. That takes but one player to change and, who knows, maybe that player is J. J. McCarthy, Joe Milton or Dylan McCaffrey. Or all of them.

3. The actual good news is that Michigan has been better than reasonable in evaluating talent in the # 700+ range, a place where it would not generally be competing against OSU or (say) Alabama. And here’s a sliver of “inside” rumor sort of news, the sort of thing I rarely have. I have been told that Michigan is attempting to develop a data base that will allow them to ascertain what sort of factors predict success and failure. Now, I have no idea what this data base looks like or what any correlations might show. But, as far as I am concerned, this is the sort of thing that should accrue/be going on to have any chance to beat the market. It could be astrological signs or the day of the week the kid was born. It could be how long his arms are or how little he can bench press. It could be looking to a coach with a particularly good record of evaluation. I am not saying that such correlations exist, but in the wake of Bill James and Billy Bean this is an arena that seems plausible. Simplifying, Bean originally targeted guys who “didn’t look like baseball players” who walked a lot and did not have the sort of flash that other teams might value. Many years later, all baseball teams have computer/stats guys looking for ways to beat the market. That Michigan is doing this, or so I believe, is a good sign. Where many NFL teams, according to one insider “doesn’t know what the word ‘analytics’ means,” I was pleased that Jim Harbaugh is at least looking to such an attempt.

Certainly, this is a harder (and maybe not possible) enterprise in football than baseball, a lot harder, where the game lacks linearity and data is often soft to non-existent; where coaches are evaluating high school kids, where coaching and competition is all over the board. For his part, Bean preferred to draft college players, where the vagaries of growth and competition were minimized. That’s a luxury Jim Harbaugh does not have. That said, the attempt is the right attempt, and I believe Michigan is serious in trying to find this particular unified field theory.

Recently, I was sent a scholarly paper from the University of Pennsylvania, titled “The Loser’s Curse: Decision Making and Market Efficiency in the National Football League Draft.” This is a 2013 document from stats guys, William Massey and Richard Thaler. It was a revelation for me, or more accurately, made my head spin. Massey and Thaler looked at NFL drafts over a number of years and concluded, to boil it down, the NFL’s “ability to predict performance is quite low…[and that] the surplus value of draft picks actually increases throughout the first round, i.e., late first round picks generate more value than early first round picks.Now for the authors idea of “value” is the delta of on-field production and salary so this doesn’t necessarily mean that the absolute “values” of players declined. Still, over a five-year period they point out that first round draftees had more seasons with zero starts (15.3%) than selections to the Pro Bowl (12.8%). Here are some other findings in this paper:

1. “[NFL] scouts predict exceptional performance by college players in the NFL more frequently than is warranted and that among these players to be predicted to be superstars there is no relation between ratings and performance.” Note that these are college kids, older and with a greater homogeneity of competition than high school kids. It would seem if the NFL struggles at this level to predict success, then colleges, with fewer resources and evaluating a less mature group of subjects should really struggle.

2. Massey and Thaler asked this question regarding the NFL draft. “What is the likelihood that a player is better than the next player chosen at his position.” In other words, assume a team has Linebacker A at the top of its list and Linebacker B as the next best alternative. What is the likelihood that Linebacker A is truly a better player than Linebacker B? My instinctive guess to this question would be “about 70%” given the energy that NFL teams have in creating these evaluations. The actual answer is 52%, a flummoxing one for me. They write, “Across all rounds, all positions, all years, the chance that a player proves to be better than the next best alternative is only slightly better than a coin flip. This simple observation suggests a discrepancy between the teams’ perceived and actual ability to discriminate between prospective players.”

I might add to this, that the team/person who has “some” ability to make distinctions is the king of the world. For example, if you are Michigan looking for a wide receiver, why waste your limited time and resources chasing after prospect # 10-- who is likely to go to Bama or Clemson anyway and receive a paycheck--- when prospect # 1,473 (Ronnie Bell) will be a completely acceptable and perhaps superior alternative who no team is looking at? Why waste your time/limited resources on highly rated running back who dumps you for OSU (Mike Webber) when Hassan Haskins (at least as good) is sitting in the wings, with none of the sturm or drang? Of course, everyone could see that Webber had value. No one, apparently, saw that Haskins did. Michigan just needs this king of the world or some way of sorting.

3. Aside from Massey and Thaler’s concept of “value,” in order to save my sanity they do concede/conclude that “teams do have some ability to predict player performance and this performance is related to draft order.” OK, we are back to 5 stars>4 stars>3,2,1 stars. At least we know that much. This is supported by a 538 article from 2016 concluding that “there is evidence teams are getting better talent in earlier rounds.” This conclusion, looking to career longevity and Pro Bowl appearances, is tempered with the idea that players with “good pedigrees and name recognition are being given preferential treatment when awards are granted, in the absence of meaningful performance data (like what exists for offensive skill players) to challenge our perceptions.” Meanwhile the authors go on to point out that undrafted players continue to make a significant mark in the NFL, with these increasing from 497 in 2005 to 746 in 2014. [2]

At this point I am left with questions, not answers. Maybe there are no answers and the best one can do is 5>4>3. However, I did go back to the question where I think analysts at Michigan should go, “How did we miss out on this guy? Why didn’t we pay any attention to him?” To me, this is a much more utile question than “How did we miss out on Joey Bosa?” Or even “Why can’t we recruit Joey Boasa?” In my superficial look to unrated HS guys who went high in the NFL draft, there does seem to be some tendency to “miss” small town guys playing in the middle of nowhere. It is easy to understand how T. J Hockenson (# 8 in NFL draft, #1,468 on the 247 composite) would be overlooked on the national scene, coming from Chariton, Iowa, a town of 4,200. Same for (say) Chris Lindstrom (#14 NFL, # 1,037 on 247) from Dudley, Massachusetts, a town under 12,000. That Iowa and ISU were the only suitors for Hockenson is understandable. That BC was the only offer to Lindstrom is understandable.

But what about a guy like Sean Murphy-Bunting? He was unrated out of high school, yet was drafted # 39 by Tampa Bay and was a rookie All Pro last year. This guy was right under UM’s nose, at a position of perpetual difficulty to fill (CB), playing at Chippewa Valley High Scholl in Macomb Township. CVHS is a largish high school (2,400) in a city of 100k. That area/high school is regularly scouted. Murphy-Bunting had an offer from Ferris State, and nothing from D-1, until CMU came in with a grey-shirt proposal. He was a success in year one and left after year three, a star in the MAC. In the 2019 draft alone, there are numerous, similar stories. Looking to all of these, I have a working theory, but I will pass it along to UM once/if I feel there is any merit to it.

In the end, perhaps the answer is NIL. Hell, MGoCorp can be formed as a GoFundMe with shares being purchased at $ 100 each. For that you get to attend a shareholder’s meeting once every year and vote on a board of directors who will serve at no pay. This board will take the monies raised and communicate with agents of HS players with their offers. Now, it is true that the player has to provide “fair market value.” But where Feng Shui expert can make $ 10k per lecture, or where Coach K commands $ 100k plus per lecture, I think a once or twice per year event at MGoCorp should suffice. I would assume, starting in 2021, all we need to know is 5>4>3.

Jon Rowe says I need some conclusions. Well, I don’t have any, at least yet, except that I think the market has enough slippage or inefficiency to beat. But whether it can be beaten is another matter, in this (sorry) non-conclusion, conclusion. However, this is just part one. I think there may be something to learn from the recruiting results of Nebraska and Wisconsin. The gurus, routinely I believe, have Nebraska recruiting at a higher level. Yet, Wisconsin has been a far superior program. That’s my next stop.


[1] My friend Jon Rowe killed my original title which contained some hoo-haw about “market inefficiencies.” Since I don’t have any firm conclusions, he thought this was a bit much. Yeah, he is right. He also said cut this document in half, among other criticisms. I tried to be more concise but I didn’t do that. I well let Seth Fisher do that.

[2] My friend Mike Golob makes this point, and it seems well plausible. “In the NFL draft, teams often reach at a position of need, especially in the 1st round, particularly QB's, OT's, and pass rushers (or TE's for bozo central). I'm pretty sure it skews the bust/hit rate. In the later rounds, teams generally go BPA so the bust rate might be lower because of that. “

Comments

NY wolve Old Guy

June 11th, 2020 at 11:54 AM ^

A great analysis, and puts some real discussion points out there.  One thing would be that NFL Draft position is the barometer of success, but I understand it is an objective measure of performance that ought to be correlated to skill.

Thanks for crunching all these numbers.  It sounds like a Moneyball style revolution ought to be in the works for recruiting.  

Love MGoBlog and the people who create analysis like this.  It is truly the only place on internet to get such thoughtful and insightful analysis.

mitchewr

June 11th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^

A great analysis, and puts some real discussion points out there.  One thing would be that NFL Draft position is the barometer of success

This is where I get hung up. I don't have the data, so this isn't a statement of fact, just me thinking out loud (virtually)...How much does NFL Draft position correlate to actual on-field performance in college?

Basically, I'm wondering: Just because a player is drafted, does that necessarily mean they were super productive in college?

They could have been a "non-star" player in college but still gotten drafted based on their physical stats and what the NFL sees as "potential". I mean we put a lot of guys into the NFL every single year and yet we routinely get beat by teams that (on paper) we shouldn't be losing to. Heck, it took everything the team could muster just to squeak by Northwestern two years ago. Just look at the numbers Craig listed about how many guys UM puts into the NFL compared to the rest of the B1G, let alone all CFB. We're tied for the 5th most NFL draft picks (with Clemson) and yet the eyeball test says we're no where close to Bama, OSU, Clemson on the field. Heck, Florida puts more in the NFL than we do and they haven't been great since Urban was there. 

So I would contend that merely putting guys into the NFL isn't a very good barometer for college recruiting success since the whole point of college recruiting is to be good and win IN COLLEGE, and not just to ship guys off to the NFL. I mean we've literally been littered with NFL talent since Harbaugh has been here and yet we can't even manage an 11 win season and have lost 4 straight bowl games and aside from OSU every year and Bama last year, these losses aren't coming against teams with MORE NFL talent.

So there's got to be some kind of disconnect between a kid making it into the draft and actually having been good/great on the college field. Either that or we've squandered a crap ton of talent over the past 5 years with lousy coaching. And since everyone seems to conclude that Harbaugh and company are some of the best coaches in the game, then I don't see how it can be the latter.

CalifExile

June 11th, 2020 at 1:28 PM ^

There's definitely a disconnect between college production and NFL ability. Think of tiny MG Henry Hill (5' 11", 220) who was great in college but never had a prayer of playing in the NFL or Mike Hart who just doesn't have the speed for the pros. That said, as flawed a metric as NFL draft position is, it's hard to think of a replacement.

Brian Griese

June 11th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^

Although it’s difficult to quantify, I prefer a measuring stick of ‘above average NFL starter’ to draft position. I understand why the latter is more popular though. That said, I agree with everything you wrote. Without the combine /recruiting hype, does Rashan Gary sniff the first round based upon his college career? The second? I’m not sure. And no, this is not a ‘Rashan sucks’ post but at the same time he never played the position he should have played in college and never learned any pass rush moves. 

Glennsta

June 14th, 2020 at 7:35 AM ^

Maybe it's just me but it seems odd that the #1 recruit out of HS and who ends up the #12 pick in the NFL draft is just an "absolutely solid" player in college.  To me, barring injury (which, in all fairness he had at the end of 2018), it means that his talent was not used well.

OfficerRabbit

June 11th, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^

In regard to your last paragraph, I think an argument can be made for a multitude of reasons. The NFL drafts on potential (specifically athletic... look how much they value the underwear olympics), a string of under performing five stars (Patterson, DPJ, Gary to name a few), and coaching scheme.. at least against OSU, Wisky, and Army.. I didn't get a chance to see the PSU or Alabama games. 

username03

June 11th, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not possible. The Northwestern game you cite is the perfect example, they purposely played that game in the only manner in which Northwestern had a chance. Instead of killing the clock and kicking FGs, if they tried scoring TDs, preferably in a hurry, the cats don't have a chance. If we score 30, its game over, instead they purposely played for a low scoring game. Same with Army last year. 

schreibee

June 11th, 2020 at 2:27 PM ^

(No)TL! Where's the rest of it?

2 minor errors in this galaxy of names and info: Solomon transferred to Tennessee; and the Penn Professor is Cade Massey, I believe, not William. Unless he has a brother?

I have a theory about the 150-300 ranked players Michigan has recently (at least) struggled to keep on the team:

These players all feel they should be ranked at least 50 spots higher. With the inaccuracies inherent in the system, maybe we're getting more than our share that should actually be 50 spots lower - and when they don't start as soon as they expected, or get passed by those 700+ ranked guys we're doing so well with, they blame the coaches & bail.

Obviously it'd be a different study, but I wonder how many of the increasingly frequent transfers across college football come from this exact sub-group?

Unicycle Firefly

June 11th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^

"...it makes no sense to compare Michigan to programs in the south because it is a “waste of time.”

Jesus Christ, man.  Michigan needs to start using the damn money cannon to fix this.  It can be done.

AC1997

June 11th, 2020 at 2:20 PM ^

Well, I agree that we can do better and OSU is clearly finding a way to pull in more elite national recruits....  But I think it warrants reiterating the impact on geography to recruiting.  A significant number of recruits stay close to home.  I found this same data when I posted a Diary on defensive tackles - most kids are not going to relocate across the country to a school, state, climate, conference, etc that they know less about.  Other factors (money, academics, success, coaching, recruiting, etc.) do play into these decisions, but geography is significant.  As Craig said, the talent pool in Michigan and the Mid-west is much shallower.  

Michigan can do better....but may never be able to truly match the small number of elite schools.

blueheron

June 11th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^

A note on 5-star recruits: That ranking occasionally seems to get some underachievers a boost when the NFL draft rolls around. It's as though there are 247 / Rivals fans even at the NFL level who believe, as Maizen does, unconditionally in HS recruiting rankings. Accordingly, some NFL teams will take a swing at Aubrey Solomon regardless of how he does at Tennessee. They'll figure that there's something there that they just need to unlock.

Minor complaint:

  • 15 ranked 201-350
  • 13 ranked 351-500
  • 16 ranked 507-700
  • 17 ranked 701-1000

Those are uneven (150-150-200-300) chunks. Why not keep them the same size?

Chris S

June 11th, 2020 at 1:15 PM ^

Long read but a good one for sure.

In the past I was definitely all about hoping we get the 5-star and 4-star guys. The main turning point for me was that diary by umgoblue11 back in January about recruiting. This article is really good too.

I am really excited about the 2020 and 2021 classes because I trust the coaches to know what they want and who will fit the system.

As dumb as it sounds, I have to remind myself that Harbaugh and crew want to beat Ohio State more than I want them to. When they are offering a 3-star from the New England area, they aren't thinking "Man I hope this guys gets us past Rutger," they have The Game in mind.

Lastly, as time goes on, the more I really admire the Satellite Camp idea. At the time I was just excited about everything. 5 years later, seeing how hard it is to pull kids out of the south, I can realize that it was really a genius idea. Plus it was also something that didn't only benefit Michigan, as you mentioned.

AC1997

June 11th, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^

Completely agree.  Michigan under Harbaugh has had some crazy bad luck at times on the field....but the fact that Harbaugh has had MULTIPLE rules put in place to neuter his ability to compete at a national level is insane:

  • Satellite Camps - Insanely good idea.  No reason for it to be killed.
  • Hiring Family/Coaches - Everyone was doing it, but now there's a rule because Harbaugh did it.
  • On-Field Demeanor toward Refs - So many coaches have screamed at refs over the years and yet Harbaugh is one of the rare few to get penalties for it

I know Harbaugh isn't the most likeable guy and really rattled some opposing coaches when he was hired.  But the changes prompted by his efforts dwarf any other that I can think of.

LDNfan

June 13th, 2020 at 1:34 PM ^

I really wish UM had fought the NCAA re. sat camps. There is no legit argument against them and a ton in favour both for the players and the schools.

Its vital for UM to recruit nationally (internationally too maybe) if it is going to have any chance of competing for Nat titles...so why not fight for these camps?

LeCheezus

June 11th, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^

Craig, this is an excellent piece.  Another common stance the "Recruiting Rankings Mean Everything" crowd takes is the overall accuracy of team recruiting rankings as an indication of success.  Regardless of the quality players that can be found in the lower rankings, shown by your draft research, once the sample size reaches 20+ the rankings are generally accurate enough to predict team success.  A possible overlooked factor here is that one would expect the top programs to have the best coaches and facilities, which may have a bigger impact on the path from recruiting success to on field success.

The "crowing" about accuracy of rankings will always happen, and the subscription services will take any portion of data they can that proves rankings are accurate.  In the end, it is a subscription based business and they need to convince people they are paying for something of value.

All of this being said, I don't know how many minds you will change on this topic :)

MaudyMacht

June 16th, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^

The "recruiting is correlated to success" argument is almost always a misunderstanding of statistics by those looking to use that point in discussion. Which should be no surprise to anyone that has had any applied statistical training and read a newspaper, book, blog or magazine in the last century. This is not a new phenomenon, no matter your feelings on current society. 

Most of the articles written in support of recruiting rankings are written by the recruiting services. Agenda? Not only do they have some slant in the articles themselves, but as others have mentioned the entire ranking process is kind of a sham set up to ensure that the statistics always come out in their favor. They use where a player is drafted as their primary metric - flawed to the core. ]Here is how the draft metric and their interpretation of the performance get wonky:

 

CLAIM: Recruiting Rankings Predict NFL Draft Picks And Therefore Talent

Well established with many statistical studies. Draft order is not the predictor of NFL success that anyone who works in or around the draft media would have you to believe. 

They're favorite stat is "a 5* has x% chance to be drafted, a 4* is much lower, and a 3* is minuscule compared to that. We know what we're talking about".  You just have to look at how many kids are ranked at each level to realize what a bogus statement that is. Recruiting services rank anyone with a P5 pulse of offers as a 3*. In the 2020 class there were 2,617 recruits rated 3*. So the kid ranked 375 and the kid ranked 2,500 are on the same tier of talent?  So now they can claim that "5*'s are 33 times more likely to be drafted than 2*'s" (Yes I really just read an article that said exactly this), when it would take nearly the entire draft being 2*'s to make up the difference. Rates are not the correct statistic to be used. This allows them to simultaneously claim that if they "miss" on a pick, that he was a 3* recruit and that means NFL potential to them. They ignore that a huge swath of their 3*'s aren't even going to make an FBS team and many ride the bench at the FCS level. The recruiting services have created a system where they're never wrong. Genius! 

Programs with higher visibility, that win more, and will get more kids drafted. For a variety of reasons that aren't correlated to future NFL success. That is proven by all the studies that investigate draft rankings as a predictor of NFL performance. But by giving most of the kids that go to the top programs 4 or 5 star rankings, they are ensuring that their statistics will show that 4 and 5 star kids get drafted more. They don't have to hit on specific kids, just as an average, since they've decided that any correlation is a victory for them.  

 

CLAIM: Recruiting Rankings Predict College Team Winning Success

Sure, but again, this does not mean what the people using it in arguments for recruiting think. I have seen so many times on Michigan blogs that use these articles to show that lower recruiting teams can't consistently beat teams with higher ranked classes. 

Like the draft picks, this a self-correcting metric that will always move to ranking the teams who win the most with better recruits. Do higher ranked recruits tend to go to play for winners? Without at doubt. But there are still plenty of kids who are getting the 4* bump to correlate with the rate at which their programs are getting kids drafted. 

Even more so than draft picks, the way that people use this claim of team recruiting ratings as a predictor of team success understand it incorrectly. Is their a correlation? Sure. But that does not mean it is a predictor of any match ups. Look at how much the recruiting rankings are used in any data-based prediction models. SP+ uses team recruiting ratings for his pre-season projections, but by the time the model gets enough data from the season it reduces the impact of that variable to very little. It's just not that good of a predictor of game outcomes. He even weights each individual class according to experience to make it as good as he can and it still doesn't have the impact that people think it does. 

Recruiting services will try to make the case for Alabama or Ohio State as a perennial #1 recruiting team and national contender, but that argument only works if no outliers make the playoffs, or if teams at all levels or rankings consistently beat those at lower levels. As Connelly has shown, that just isn't true. Focusing on top teams being top teams as a mode of analysis also fails to show the incredibly "Talented" teams that underachieve far below a level that they should, if the rankings were such a strong predictor. Even bad coaching and bum luck shouldn't be able to sink some of these teams. FSU has been in the Top 5 most talented teams every year except the one year they were 6th. USC has been the only team that even come close to the insane recruiting tier that OSU, Alabama, and Georgia have been at. 

The gap has gotten incredibly large between the truly elite recruiting teams and the merely good recruiters, and yet how little that has predicted success. Let's use 247 team talent tool for some examples: 

In 2019, the gap between Ohio State and Clemson was the same as between Michigan and UCLA. The true recruiting gap between OSU and Clemson is probably larger, because Clemson's highest rated classes are underclassmen and their experienced classes were ranked much lower. And yet - Was Clemson aspect against Cincinnati, Utah, USC, and Cal. They lost 8 games and that was with an extraordinarily favorable cross conference slate. The gap between Alabama and Auburn is the same as the gap between Michigan and Maryland. Dive into the weeds, and you will see teams ranked extremely closely outside of the top 40 that put teams on the field that were clearly different levels of physical talent. That's more of the rule than it is the exception.   

Bud Elliot's blue chip ratio highlights that the gap is extreme for the contenders, (80%+ for the top 3 this year, 50-64% for everyone else), and even more extreme below that level, yet even he makes a disclaimer that this does not equate to predicting winning. It's just the bare minimum that history has provided. In the tier of 50%+, it's anyone's race to the playoffs. 

CONCLUSION

The claims are just not accurate, and any other method of analysis indicates that Craig's (any many other good comments) point stands - there is a clear inefficiency that can be exploited by an elite scouting and recruiting organization. There is also still room in CFB for good coaching to overcome any real or perceived talent gap when it comes to winning football games. Someone else made the great comment: Every year a team of unrated guys could be put together that contends for a playoff spot. Do they hit at the same rate as 5*'s? No. But that's a failing of the recruiting services. All a team can, and should, care about is getting the best 11 on the field at a time. It's clear that as good of a job as some teams do, far more can be done. 

Clemson has shown that they can repeat their success in these regards with regularity. Their run thus far has been with teams that are either close or identical to Michigan's talent rankings. They win with good coaching and even better scouting. For every Georgia, whose talent keeps them on the cusp with unimaginative coaching, there is a Texas who hires the hottest coaches and underperforms their stellar recruiting rankings. For every Alabama, maximizing every ounce of a wealth of talent, there is an even more impressive Minnesota who found diamonds in the scraps and won games they had no business competing in.

 

 

Michigan Arrogance

June 11th, 2020 at 1:52 PM ^

I feel like the rating system in the industry is an issue. you have 5* guys, but at some point, someone decided never to rank a kids as a 2 star. So you have too big of a 3* bundle:

5*: top 30-50 players

4*: next players ranked fo 300-350

3*: Litterally any onle else with multiple D-1A offers I guess... the next players ranks 350- what 2,000?

IMO, they should change it to make it a more meaningfull ranking:

5*: 1-50

4*: 50-250

3*: 250-750

2*: 750-1500

1*: 1500+

Unranked: not D-1AA prospect

The actual delination numbers can change of course and reasonable people can differ there.

The other thing is, how much do the recruiting services account for the character and academics of the students? Other than auto-bumbs for ND, M, etc recruits, the goal of the services should probably be predictive to All-conf, all american and draft status/pro potential. But we know there are kids ranked all over who teams will recruit very hard if they have the grades and the character, but many won't recruit if they don't.

 

evenyoubrutus

June 11th, 2020 at 2:10 PM ^

I firmly believe that the majority of this team's failures revolve around the attrition in the 2017 class. That class has been destroyed, leaving zero warm bodies at many important positions. I'm not absolving Harbaugh, I'm sure he made a lot of errors in who he recruited and how he handled some of them when they were here and would love a do over. I guess I'm resting my hopes on the idea that they can find some lower rated guys who are more likely to stick around and develop the way guys like Uche, Metellus, Paye or Ronnie Bell have (to name a few).

MadMatt

June 11th, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^

I firmly believe giving the offense to Pep Hamilton instead of Jed Fisch in year 3 resulted in 3 lost seasons. From the very first game, the offense was more boring and predictable, and its pieces did not fit together. Now we have a shiney modern offense that took most of a season to download, and probably cost our returning senior starter at QB his chance to get drafted. I have every logical reason to be hopeful for the future, but we all are jaded by years of the darndest streak of untimely bad luck and coaching brain cramps anyone has ever seen.

evenyoubrutus

June 11th, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^

Okay I will give you that. That was arguably Harbaugh's biggest error when he got here, was hiring some of his cronies in a similar way Lloyd Carr did. Another one would be Drevno. Thankfully there is evidence that he has taken steps to correct this, as he clearly has made some good decisions in coaching hires since then.

Ghost of Fritz…

June 12th, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^

Agree.  Mostly.  But still, that seems a bit over simplified. 

I just cannot bring my self to blame the defensive problems against OSU the last two years exclusively on d-line problems (whether injuries or plain lack of depth and elite talent at DT). 

That is a big big part of it, but...there are also scheme issues, blown assignment in the defensive backfield, etc...  

Blue Middle

June 11th, 2020 at 2:10 PM ^

Great stuff, made even greater by your intellectual humility.  Far too many people (myself included) would have tried to come a conclusion that we believed was true before we started writing--you just presented data and ideas and said, "there is something here..."

If all journalists took this approach our country would be far better off.  Thank you!

andrewgr

June 11th, 2020 at 2:18 PM ^

There is no evidence to support the idea that players at OSU take easier classes than at UM.  None.

And the specific data point you used-- Justin Fields-- is a particularly egregious smear job.  He had offers from Harvard and Yale.  He's a smart person, and whether he takes his classes in person or online, unless you have direct evidence that he's taking a particularly easy set of classes, you should refrain from assuming that he isn't putting that intelligence to good use while in college.

This isn't the first time this nonsense has happened, and I suspect it won't be the last.  Cardale Jones was a serious student in both High School and in College.  He was upset that he "only" got a B+ on an exam, and tweeted something stupid and impulsive on twitter, and UM fans still bring that tweet up as if it was evidence of lax academic standards for athletes, when in fact, Cardale is an example of everything that is right and good about athletes making the most of their academic opportunities.

CR

June 11th, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^

That particular paragraph isn't formatted correctly. It is from Scott Bell's piece.

I know that Joe Burrow and Justin Fields are A Quality football players. I have no idea if they are good, bad or indifferent students. I have no reason to believe any of the three is not a good or smart person and, I suppose, I could have left Bell's crack out.

But when a kid tweets "Why should we have to go to class if we come here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS." or that a player is taking 100% online classes and says "I have heard the campus is nice." there is going to be some fall-out and some conclusions drawn, regardless of whether these drawings are overly broad. 

 

andrewgr

June 11th, 2020 at 4:51 PM ^

I understand why those conclusions are being drawn.  I was asking you to be be better than that.

EDIT: If it is a trash-talking thread, or clearly intended as a joke, I've got no major beef.  But in the context of your article, it was presented as proof that one of the reasons UM doesn't recruit better is because their athletes are held to higher academic standards, and there is simply no evidence to support that position.

CR

June 11th, 2020 at 7:02 PM ^

Fair point. No trash talk intended.  Plainly, OSU is killing it in all respects. UM is doing OK. I think Bell intended it as a joke.

But do I believe that UM has some limitations in this context?

Yes I do. And I know a couple of the names.

Do I believe these limitations are relevant vis a vis any recruiting against OSU?

I can't say that is true. It may not be true at all. The players at UM and OSU are likely more similar than different. Bell's point is that OSU can make (not will make, necessarily) proposals to recruits that UM can not make, such as 100% online courses. Does this have any bearing on outcomes? I can't say that. For a few kids there may be an appeal. Conversely, there may be cases where UM's particular academic styling is a sales point.

For UM and some others, maybe many others, NIL will have an impact, or so I believe. Cowboy days will begin. How various fan bases will react remains unclear to me.

lsjtre

June 11th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^

"Damn why could we have not gotten Artur Sitkowski"

-No one ever, but what you would think from listening to the BTN coverage of the game

ThisGuyFawkes

June 11th, 2020 at 3:27 PM ^

I’m not going to waste a ton of time comparing Michigan to similar programs in the South, because I think it’s kind of a waste of time...  But just keep things like that in mind when you’re coming up with what you think reasonable expectations should be for Michigan’s recruiting

This section is missing a proper quotation as the line before it is in closed parentheses, but this entire section is not. Didn't realize until reading Bell's piece that this is lifted from his article verbatim

UMinSF

June 11th, 2020 at 3:56 PM ^

Excellent article; thanks for the deep dive into an interesting topic.

IMO, Michigan could really benefit by embracing analytics and a "Moneyball" approach to exploiting inefficiency - in recruiting, operations and game-planning.

Coach Beilein demonstrated how embracing analytics and seeking undervalued talent can be very successful - and the basketball program was in a far more challenging position than our football program.

CFB is ripe for taking advantage of modern thinking - tradition-rich, lots of good-ol-boys, institutional intransigence. If Michigan can continue to mine its established advantages and add some world-class thinking and analysis, there's no reason we couldn't make that leap to the top.

Coach Harbaugh has shown a willingness to try new things and champion disruption. I hope he embraces that instinct.

There are clearly baked-in advantages that work to maintain the existing hierarchy - and frankly, Michigan has at least as many advantages as disadvantages:

Advantages:

- national exposure, huge fan base, huge full stadium

- traditionally successful

- tons of money and top-notch resources

- prestigious, well-known school, attractive college town and atmosphere

- solid brand and famous ambassadors

Disadvantages:

- Not in south. Far from most top-level HS talent; cold weather

- Academics matter. Can be both advantage and disadvantage. Quite a few athletes wouldn't be accepted at Michigan were it not for athletics, but kids are required to "play school" and there are kids Michigan chooses not to recruit because they're unlikely to succeed academically.

- Less willing to dip into murky recruiting waters ($$, bagmen) than some schools

I remain optimistic that Michigan - and yes, Michigan under Harbaugh - has the potential to get to the top of college football. What can I say, I'm an optimist.