RR still working to get Dorsey accepted?
Rittenberg article from this morning... Sounds like RR is still working hard to get Dorsey accepted.
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/12998/dorsey-situation-tests-michigan-rodriguez-bond
Your 1) is putting a somewhat rosy face on the academic failure scenario. In reality he doesn't just drop out and walk quietly away. More likely there is some period where the academics become an issue, possibly a midseason suspension, friction with the coaching staff etc. Given the attention his recuitment/signing/admission has already received there is then a new flood of negative press from the likes of the freep as well as the MSM.
Not saying this will happen but you asked for the scenario under which we are better off for not admitting him in the first place. This is it and it is one that should be avoided at all costs.
Not saying any of it is right - just the way it is.
Stuff him in Ojibwa classes for four years.
Easy way to inflate the GPA.
So we should avoid, at all cost no less, giving a kid a chance to succeed? Because there is a chance he will not?
If we gave him a chance and he failed, he wouldn't be the first UM football player to do so. Making decisions because of the negative press that may come from it is insane because the MSM has proven (In Detroit anyway) that it doesn't matter how many positive things we do, they will only focus on the negative.
I just don't see your reasoning as cause for not admitting him. Many of the other football players are in the same boat academically and we took chances on them.
You are leaping to some pretty wild conclusions. Where did I say:
"...we should avoid, at all costs, giving a chance to succeed..." ?
How do you get to there from what I actually said, which was this:
"Like everyone else here I want him to come to Michigan and succeed but they may be doing the prudent thing in taking their time and making sure."
I am all for a little give and take here but please try to be reasonable and address what was actually said
quoting yourself and excluding the part that I was responding to.....
You proposed a scenario that we gave DD a chance and he flunked out and said that it should be "avoided at all cost".
My point is you can't "avoid that scenario at all costs" with any recruit. When you give a recruit a chance, there is always a chance that scenario plays out.
If you can't remember what you said (even after rereading it) I don't know what I can do for you. You made the statement that DD coming to AA and flunking out (and all that goes with that) should be avoided at all costs.
The only way to do that is to not admit him. Which is absolutely the wrong decision here IMHE.
Okay, yes and you misrepresenting the gist of what I said was wrong. The point is that this particular situation and recruit are different from others, like it or not.
Enough, if you have to feel you are right then leave it at that.
I don't need to feel I am right, I just presented my opinion. I am searching to find a reason as to why all this is happening and hoping someone can enlighten me.
Unfortunately the responses I have received haven't seemed to be reasonable. This is why I continue to post, hoping someone can offer something concrete or at least a plausable reason for what is going on.
On a side note, why is this recruit different from all the rest?
Please, enough. The reason I answered back was you took one phrase out of context to imply that I said we should avoid admitting him under any circumstances. I did not say that.
I have tried to explain why I feel the administration is hesitating but obviously failed. The stakes are high given the recent spate of negative publicity. I am sorry if you do not accept that answer but I do believe that is their motivation. That and the reports of this recruit's brushes with the law are what make this situation different. You may not approve or think it is fair or right but it is reality and bashing/negging me because you don't like it won't help.
I have not negged you once for any comment you made. I am not a child, I am 36 and a practicing Cardiologist. I can handle someone disagreeing with my opinion without hitting a down vote. Just so you know, it isn't me negging you.
Seriously?
Well obviously you are a person of great influence and your opinion is more highly valued than mine.
And it's not just what's about good for U-M.
If he has to transfer, then he he has to sit out for a year. I don't think that's a great outcome for him.
I have no doubt the coaches, and others, are waging a furious PR campaign internally for Dorsey. Notice that some anonymous source contacted both Birkett and Changelis to volunteer two talking points:
1. He's cleared with the NCAA -- it's a UM hold-up
2. He may go to Florida State!
The source could be from Dorsey's camp in Florida. But the threat of Florida State seems more like someone in AA trying to spur action from the University. I imagine that Dorsey's confidantes would be irritated if he can't go to Michigan, but would be ok with Florida State. Those talking points seem aimed more at directing negative attention to Michigan's unusually stingy stance toward Dorsey. And that aligns more with the interests of someone who wants to see Dorsey get admitted and put on the greatest helmet in the world.
FSU isn't taking him either.
- it's just like the Myron Rolle story all over again. UM admissions has been warned.
I wonder if RichRod "ran this up the flagpole" before he actively pursued Dorsey. I hope so.
One of my few concerns with RichRod has been how he handles administrivia like this (and the associated politics). If it turns out that he made his move without knowing everything he could about admissions details, it will look bad for him. We'll have Freep articles and all that.
this was signed off on by DB, admissions, etc... Admissions changed the rules for DD after they agreed to accept his letter of intent. That's the big uproar.
What is the process for an athlete, in regards to admissions, when it comes to signing an LOI? Does the admissions department give a brief overview of the athlete's qualifications and assure the coach/recruiter that the athlete would be admitted (assuming that they meet the minimum NCAA requirements)?
My impression is that it's commonly accepted here that Dorsey was given a thumbs up by someone in admissions in order to sign an LOI back on signing day. I haven't seen many details of how that process actually works, so I would appreciate it if you (or anyone else) would fill me in.
The extent of my knowledge would be Brian's comment that Rodriguez reached out to a provost and got a sign-off, but I'm not entirely sure what that means and how much weight that would hold when it comes time for the official application review.
After Feagin, it had to have been signed off above Rich. I can't imagine they didn't put a vetting process in place.
Then again they put a CARA form process in place, and football administration di follow that policy for a year.
But after the crap he took for Feagin, wouldn't you ask the boss to sign off first? (It was probably Bill Martin who singed off.)
rule for an admissions floor (consisting of a combo of GPA & ACT)? Has this rule never been broken?
If so, am I to believe that a significant doner, (e.g. Stephen Ross who donated >$100 million to Michigan) couldn't get his grandkid in, if he/ she were under this threshold?
In a previous thread, an MGoPoster described how at his school (he's in admissions in another university), there is a certain number of recruits that the university will admit that would not be admitted on their academic prowess (as long as they still meet some other, much lower, standard). So, if RR and the football team has not used up all these scholarships admits, it shouldn't be a problem. If he has, then it's an uphill battle.
I don't have time to search for that post or that poster, maybe someone else can cite him or correct me if I'm wrong.
it doesn't mean they'll take anyone. This is true at every school including Ivy Leagues. They'll admit someone with grades that are lesser than what the normal student at that school would have but most schools still have some kind of floor for what they expect. Our floor (as well as schools like ND, Northwestern, most of the Big Ten) is higher than places like West Virginia because the caliber of students that the athletes have to compete against in classes is higher than those other schools as well (lets face it WVU and Cincy aren't exactly reknowned institutes of higher learning). Whats the point of letting this kid in if he fails out in a year. This isn't like basketball where he can go pro after one year of barely going to college courses.
The point to me is, no one can sit here and tell me (or anyone else) with any degree of certainty whether DD will succeed or not at UM. The point is giving the kid a chance after he met all the criteria the UM staff told him to meet and not pulling the plug for something you knew about before he ever signed a LOI.
I can't help but wonder if the few who seem to be OK with UM acting in this manner would be as understanding if they were in this situation. Would they applaud UM for having integrity? Would they say "It's actually a good thing because I may have flunked out anyway"?
I can't think of a reasonable arguement for UM to not admit DD if the story is as I understand it.
The important question is not whether DD will succeed at Michigan. The answer to that question is plainly unknowable. Instead, the important question is: how likely is it that DD will succeed at Michigan? The answer to that question IS known (with a good degree of certainty, no less) by the admissions office. If they think it is very unlikely DD would be successful at Michigan, they may decline to admit him.
I think what you may be failing to realize is that UM admissions has been waiting until the very end to see all of DD's academic numbers. The football program probably told DD to bust his hump and do his absolute best in the classroom. If DD's absolute best wasn't all that great, which UM admissions could not have found out until now, when his final grades came out, then the university may be doing the right thing by denying him.
You didn't properly spell renowned in a sentence that was designed to mock the academic prowess of other schools.
Well you didn't respond to the right post!
/sarcasm, but true.
I did actually, look at the left-hand alignment of my box. It's aligned as a response to JBA above your post. Not that anybody is looking at this 2 days after the fact.
Believe it or not, but U-M puts an unusually high wall between fundraising and admissions. Hell, development officers aren't even ALLOWED to talk to admissions except through very specific, circuitous channels, and that is only to get a status update on someone's application.
Being the child of a big-name donor can help you get into the dorm you want or other perks, but I have seen a lot of angry rich donors whose kids or grandkids didn't get into U-M. I am sure in a lot of those cases the fundraising staff would LOVE to have gotten their kid into the school, but U-M admissions takes their job incredibly seriously, moreso than most other universities.
They try to close their ears to everything outside of the kid's application, which is why this is being held up so much. They go out of their way NOT to care who a kid's daddy is or what sport a kid can play. Whether that is good or bad is debatable, but it is the culture at U-M.
Source: I work in development (fundraising) at U-M.
You work in admissions? Can you do us all a favor and admit Dorsey so we can go back to speculating about super confernces.
So yea, I am on the OTHER side of that wall. Sorry, can't help us there.
you're not much help now, are you?
/sarcasm
And say, "Hi, I work on the other side of this here wall. I just wanted to introduce myself. And, when you get a chance, please admit Demar Dorsey."
Before the Supreme Court struck down the undergrad admissions process in the affirmative action case, the system was that you needed 100 points. You could get 80 from grades, I think 12 from test scores, and the rest from a variety of sources (activities, leadership, minority status, being from an underrepresented michigan county, essay rating, etc). One of special rules worth 20 points was being recommended by the Provost.
So the provost couldn't exactly get someone in with no questions asked, but if you couldn't get to 80 points on your merits then I guess even the Provost couldn't help you. 80 points wasn't terribly hard.
Of course the system now is totally different, but I'd be surprised if the Provost doesn't still have some way to influence the process.
Is it fair to say that many previous athletes could get into UM with a 2.5 or 2.6 GPA and an 18 on the ACT?
many other recruits weren't front page news at signing day. This isn't about DD's grades as much is it's about his "checkered" past.
OK -- this seems like one of those cases where escalation up to MSC via Brandon, and then down to admissions for a quick (hopefully positive, but at least fair and well explained) decision gets announced. Does the University not see how embarassing this is?
Maybe the admissions department saw the Under Armor game and thought DD might be mentally insane. Someone just needs to explain to these Admissions types - that's how youngin's do nowdays.
I might be way way out in left field on this one, but part of me wonders if UM admissions, seeing the shitstorm that just befell our compliance department, is just suddenly taking a hard line on Dorsey to avoid any more negative press. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that there is anything untoward about Dorsey's recruitment or the lobbying to get him admitted by RR, but I have to think UM would be more likely to let Dorsey in with less than stellar grades/scores if they aren't literally just coming off announcing self-imposed sanctions. Again, this is a judgement call by UM admissions, and I tend to agree with the comment about their hypocrisy in this matter, but I think they might be looking to avoid even the slightest action that would be cause for further hand-wringing and hit-jobs by the press. I think this is completely the wrong attitude if this is at all correct, and it would be a shame if they let the NCAA penalty situation affect the decision here, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Look up 'Demar Dorsey' and 'qualify' on the interweb. You may run across an article or two that are considered 'less than exceptional press.' You aren't even in the city in which the stadium is located.
I tend to think if they are taking a hard line here, it actually will create more negative press. If DD passes the NCAA clearinghouse and UM admissions accepts him in short order, then that's the end of it. You might get about one Freep article, but that's it. If they continue to take a hard line and drag it out, it becomes a bigger story. (See: how big it already is, at least to us.)
I didn't think of it that way, but you're right, it probably gives them even more reason to slam UM after already having gone after DD (and UM for daring to recruit him) from every angle imaginable. Frankly, the whole thing is just exhaustingly frustrating for anyone who closely follows recruiting. It's been a hot button from the beginning, really for no good reason, and my guess is the piling on of articles will continue no matter the outcome. Taking a wild guess as to UM admission's motivations and influences was probably a fools errand, but I was just thinking out loud more than anything.
If you notice in the last couple of paragraphs in what Rittenberg wrote - I think he seems to think that Dorsey isn't at Michigan right now b/c of the negative Michigan media (Freep).
If that is the case, then I have a new level of being pissed off about the Demar Dorsey saga.
LET. HIM. IN.
What is the worst case? Kelly Baraka? Justin Feagin? That DL who showed his dong to a bunch of chicks? I don't get it. One kid is not going to come to Michigan and totally flip the entire city of Ann Arbor on its head by running guns, drugs, and other things.
Best case by the way is he turns his life around, utilizing his talent and mentors before having a long successful career in professional sports (hello Tyreke Evans).
TomVH is currently wiretapping the Admissions Dept. main line to get the latest information.
Updates to follow.
IMO it's kind of terrible to offer a kid a scholarship, have him accept it, and then say "SIKE!" at the end when he actually has the grades to make it through the NCAA. They had an agreement (of sorts), man.
A scholarship offer should not be revocable because he can rely on it to his detriment. During this time he could've been checking out other schools, making visits, etc. and now it's reaaally late in the process and he's screwed.
If the reason Dorsey has not be accepted is due to circumstances the admissions office already knew about this does not make any sense. If I was in Dorsey's position I would assume that as long as I met the Clearinghouse requirements I would be admitted. I hope everyone can get on the same page and resolve this issue.
Against my better judgment, I just read some of the comments on that article, and I'll be damned if my IQ didn't just go down by about 40 points. What a bunch of mouthbreathing idiots.
I have long since stopped bothering to look at any of "sports nation's" comments on any articles posted on espn.com for the same reason. I am also tempted at times, but then I remember what a waste of time it is. Any reasonable voices that post comments on there are drowned out by a unending chorus of idiots.
who is going to make the "Free Demar Dorsey" t-shirt?
I believe this should be the student t-shirt this year.
that better illustrates Rodriguez's struggle at Michigan thus far. M fans and alumni want wins, baby, wins. Under Carr, "what the hell is with this conservative offense" and "join the 21st Century why don't you." Alright, Michigan brings in a coach that bleeds offensive innovation. The reaction, "what is with this bizzare looking offense, people running all over, handing off there and there, just run a regular offense!!" they scream.
From the fans to the players, i.e. the Freep Jihad, a coach comes in pushes them, works them hard, a coach that says "Hey, 8-4 and 9-3 is really not good enough, the culture has to change." He gets blasted by some of those players, the local media, the NCAA, a lot of Michigan "fans."
Now he lands a stud, and Michigan's athletic department is not going to let him in? Right now? On the brink of maybe one of the most important seasons in the history of the program? This issue was going to come up at some point. The bigtime football powers do not have the same academic standards as Michigan. So, is Michigan going to be Notre Dame, or is Michigan going to compete. If your answer is that our standards are higher and they should remain higher, don't expect Michigan to compete for Big Ten or National titles. You have to have the talent to do it.
I really don't know if RR is going to be able to win this fight. Sometimes the person that brings change in not the one that gets to stick around to enjoy it. And I am not sure that all Michigan fans/alumni really want the changes that are required to take place.