How similar is Jay Wright's system to Beilein's?
The Championship aside, I've always respected what Jay Wright has been able to do at Nova. He's a clean coach from what we know and recruits to his system while developing multi-year players and picking up the occasional blue chip. I'm sure that will only continue now that he's broken through twice and has shaken off the NCAA "choking" label for good.
Watching Nova play this year was not only terrifying but impressive in how balanced they look. Hell even the 2013/14 Michigan teams weren't that fluid on the offensive end where 1-5 could all shoot 3s with confidence.
Any Xs and Os gurus know what is similar and different from what Mich and Beilein does? Or did it just come down to having a deep, veteran squad led by a bonafide PG? It also seems like Nova favors a more uptempo approach compared to us although both teams space the floor really well when everything clicks.
I don't know about the system, but Nova is loaded with talent. Brunson may be a Junior at Nova, but he was also a top 25 5* player. Divicenzo was in the same class and a 4*. Omari Spellman, another top 25 5* player. Both Phil Booth and Mikal Bridges are top 100 players in their class. Daniel Ochefu and Archie Diacacano (both led Nova in 2016) were both top 60 players. I went back through the recruiting classes from 2003 onwards and except for 2005 and 2008, he's had a high level recruit in every single class. Beilein and Wright may have a similar system but Wright is a better recruiter by far. I can understand why he's had the "choking" label until recently.
But I had to laugh out loud. It's Ryan Arcidiacono.
And here I thought it was Archie Diock, and the TV announcers were really down on his play for some reason ("Oh no!").
Derp. Had a major brain fart while typing his name out
he played 72.5% of Nova's minutes on the season (which was third highest on the team after the first rounders Brunson and Bridges).
They started Booth as the more experienced player to throw him a bone, but DiVincenzo played starter minutes and was a starter for the purposes of this discussion. It's not like they actually had 5 players better than him that they played more than him.
Nova had. Beilein has sent a huge amount of players to the league young that weren't highly recruited. As well as the team played, having DJ Wilson in the championship game to take Livers spot and help take over the 5 when Wagner got tired, would have been huge. Livers had a good year, but DJ Wilson would have provided another outside inside offensive threat.
I am amazed at how successful Beilein has been when dealing with as many key injuries (McGary and Caris) and early departures (Wilson, Stauskus, Morris, Burke, McGary, Hardawya, Robinson). Love that Beilein is getting those kids paid the right way, but it is hard to have sustained succes that he has had with that type of turnover.
Haven't spent anytime watching Nova tape and a closer look at their O. However, they do run some similar sets especially on the high ball screen where the screener can roll, step out, or slip the screen for a backdoor. They actually kicked our ass last night in the second half due to that set...and got a couple backdoors because of it. Nova's offense in general has a ton more motion than we do and their players will get in a triple threat position anytime they touch the ball - which encourages more one on one play..they look to attack on every pass. We take our time, look for a mismatch, or fool someone on misdirection.
Offensively they looked like 2013 Michigan if McGary shot threes and made 45%. Definitely similar approach but with more talent than any Beilein team except 2013.
Pretty sure I heard a couple times they have the best offense in the last 4 years or so, which probably means the 2013 offense was better. Probably a thin margin though.
In the Kenpom era (2002-present), 2018 Villanova has the second-best offensive efficiency rating ever (127.8), behind only 2015 Wisconsin (129.0).
Offenses have been getting more and more efficient across the country. Our 2013 offense led the nation at 121.9. Today, that's only Beilein's third-best offense. We were better in '14 (123.9) and '17 (122.3), finishing third and fourth nationally, respectively.
'Nova's system is very similar, to the point that it was somewhat frustrating to hear Jay Wright being touted as a revolutionary when Beilein was ahead of the curve (by far) on a system that maximizes efficiency (3s, layups/dunks, free throws, low TO). It's not that Wright isn't great, just that Beilein was doing the stuff before him and Wright also had a one of a kind team full of talent.
They won the title in 2016 too. Some of the players on this years team were also on the 2016 team, but the main cogs of the 2016 team were not on the 2018 team.
The popular "anyone who doesn't obsess over Michigan and Ann Arbor is getting paid" line around here is tired.
FBI docs showed 3 Nova players getting paid.
Got a source for the 3 players? From what I've read it only says the agent had dinner with Izzo and "Villanova coaches."
The only player I've seen named is Jahvon Quinerly who committed to Nova after being outed for being paid 10 grand by Zona and Sean Miller.
Lowry and Pena as well: https://www.vuhoops.com/villanova-basketball/2018/2/23/17043934/villano…
I'm aware that it happens. Doesn't make my comment wrong.
The way college athletics is, you shouldn't assume any program is totally clean. Dirtiness is a matter of degree. I think some coaches try harder than others to run a clean program, but things may still be going on without their knowledge.
Nova's a pretty decent school near a great city.
Which is the same as UM.
I didn't know it was so strong academically.
A good buddy of mine (from Grosse Pointe) wen there for his freshman year before transferring to UM. Think he said it has a commuter campus vibe.
Out of state Michigan is harder to get into than Nova.
Nova is generally the rich kids from the main line who aren't good enough to go to Penn but aren't towny enough to go to La Salle and thumb their nose at the thought of going to public schools in Philly, PSU or Pitt.
Think of a larger brand, old money Franklin & Marshall or Bucknell University.
is not a great city. Cool architecture and sights, sure. However, the people there are miserable to be around. I used to travel the country for work and Philly is the only city I ended up hating.
I said that because a Philly native was standing over my shoulder, threatening to throw a battery at me.
Fuck off clown.
Nova is in the suburbs of Philly. And well, since you brought it up, Nova pretty much has a lock on any PA or Jersey kid that is good since Pitt basketball fell off a cliff and PSU isn't a historic power.
The rest of the Philly Big 5 (La Salle, St Joe's, UPenn and Temple) and Drexel aren't in good enough leagues to compete.
On top of that, St. John's is struggling and UConn also fell off a cliff in the same time frame as Pitt.
That leaves an aging Boeheim at Syracuse fresh off of sanctions and Providence vs Villanova.
Where would you go as an east coast kid? Providence?
You forgot to mention Rutgers
Rutgers isn't even the best program in Jersey. I forgot to mention Seton Hall.
lol
So yep one can easily see how Villanova has a lock on Atlantic coast talent north of Virginia.
Yeah, Nova can get vitually any kid from NYC/NJ and PA that they want. Wright is an awesome recruiter.
Philly area college basketball developed in a very different way than NYC college basketball.
NYC college b-ball is a non-entity. Philly area has a number of decent programs, and Villanova is a top program.
You're forgetting St. John's. They're down now, but have a great tradition.
St. John is (was?) an o.k. program.
And I guess one could sort of count Seton Hall as in the NYC orbit too (though in reality New Yorkers do not consider suburban NJ to be part of the NYC orbit in the same way that Philly people for sure consider Villanova to be part of the Philly orbit).
Still, even factoring in the above, it is sort of surprising that NYC collge programs are not at a higher level and that there are not three or four more div. 1 decent programs. For example, why isn't Forham a better program?
Or Manhattan. The Jaspers have had their moments but then the coach gets a better job and leaves. Of course, St John's did themselves no favors by hiring Chris Mullin. Bad, bad hire.
It wiped out the established college powers in the New York area. St Johns was the only New York team that stepped in to the void; meanwhile, out of area coaches like John Wooden and Dean Smith made hay in the city.
Connecticut under Jim Calhoun was the big power in the New York area, but Kevin Ollie seems to have killed that golden goose. Remains to be seen if Hurley (from Jersey City, remember) can bring it back.
Syracuse has been loading up on City kids for as long as I can remember. Villanova has also recruited the City well (Philly is about 2 hours from NYC for those who don't know). But yeah, the point-shaving scandal killed CCNY. Also the NYU program--the Violets.
Other then Brunson and Spellman their entire roster is from PA or a state on the eastern coast.
Probably a bunch of Catholics from the northeast.
Ignore. Responded to wrong person.
The FBI reported alleged that Arizona paid $15,000 to a recruit that was obviously him. He decommitted from Arizona and switched to Villanova. I'm not saying Wright did anything shady in his recruitment, but he may be recruiting some players that Beilein wouldn't touch.
Former Villanova players were named in the FBI investigation as well as Dawkins having a dinner with Villanova coaches. No proof of anything, but again, maybe they and Beilein don't operate quite the same way.in recruiting.
operate the same way,
Beilein is the cleanest coach in major college hoops.
Even if Wright is not among the worst, or even close to the worst, simply by virture of Beilien being at the extreme tail of the curve, Wright is comparatively willing to do things in recruiting that Beilein would not.
Yes, 3 former players were listed as recieving payment and Dawkins listed a meeting with the Nova coaches a la the one he had with Izzo.
Jay Wright has been getting a lot of props as a "clean" coach that is "doing it the right way". It seems to stem from not getting one and dones and coming off as such a nice guy. FBI seems to disagree though.
They are both converging toward running a lot of spread pick and rolls which has been referenced aboved. Wright's version is much more free flowing in general. They get into a ball screen and just that to gain an advange. From there it's drive and kick, letting players make plays.
Beilein works much more out of scripted actions. Most of his sets involve swinging the ball a few times, letting players make reads on how they are being guarded, and eventually work into a ball screen.
An under rated difference between the do is how they use their 5's. Both love it when they can shoot, but the position is actually very different. For Wright, bigs screen and roll or pop. Not a lot of responsibility other than screen and finish.
For Beilein, even his non-shooting bigs are handling the ball at the top of the key and making decisions about what is the next action within the set. Wagner and Teske are used as an outlet in the middle of the floor to swing the ball and make key passes rather than just catching and finishing. People don't realized how unique that is.
and really, Villanova coaches have always been more defensive minded. That's their forte, that's what the preach and emphasize, and they've been a top 12 defensive team in each of the last 5 seasons.
The difference between them a lot of defensive minded teams is that they aren't necessarily focused on recruiting the best defensive players as a way to be good at defense such that they sacrifice offensive skill, like Boeheim does at Cuse or what Cincinnati does or what MSU often does, or what a lot of the great defensive teams do.
At Nova, they recruit really good offensive players, and run a fairly simple offense like yoy mentioned, which speads things out and lets those players do their thing (much like the offenses that the Warriors and Rockets run) and then they really coach them up on defense to make them good on that side of the ball.
Kind of like what Yaklich was able to do with with Duncan and Wagner this year. This year is the first year we've really gotten the most out or players defensively which hopefully is something we keep doing.