So, About Shea Patterson Comment Count

Brian

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LaQuon Treadwell rebate, come on down? [Bryan Fuller]

Yo. Bolded alter-ego. Get in here.

what

So here's this:

Multiple well-placed sources have confirmed to the Ole Miss Spirit today that quarterback Shea Patterson has been granted permission by Ole Miss to talk to other programs about potentially transferring. Patterson and Ole Miss executed what is termed a "permission to contact" form on Friday, according to those sources. ...

Well-placed sources also told the Ole Miss Spirit that Michigan is probably the favorite to land Patterson, if he does execute a transfer from Ole Miss.

FWIW, Patterson's release bars him from SEC schools and other teams on Ole Miss's schedule the next two years.

What?!

Yeah.

I have questions.

Shoot.

I thought Patterson wasn't immediately eligible?

By the letter of the law he's not. The NCAA automatically grants a free transfer to anyone whose eligibility expires before a post-season ban does, but since Ole Miss just got one extra year only their rising seniors are 100% free and clear to leave. Patterson is going to be a junior.

However, it would make zero sense for Patterson to transfer to Michigan if he did have to sit out a year. If Patterson isn't immediately eligible he'd enter 2019 as a redshirt junior at a school with an entrenched starter who's either in the same class (Peters) or younger (McCaffrey). Therefore we have to assume there's a path to immediate eligibility in the world where Patterson does come to Michigan. This section of the NCAA rulebook that comes immediately before the "if your eligibility is covered by a post-season ban you can transfer free" section might be it:

14.8.2.1 Residence Requirement. The one-year residence requirement for student-athletes may be waived under the following conditions or circumstances: (Revised: 7/24/12) ...

For a student-athlete who transfers to a member institution after loss of eligibility due to a violation of the regulation prohibiting pay for participation in intercollegiate athletics (see Bylaw 12.1.4) or a violation of recruiting regulations (see Bylaw 13.01.1), or for a student-athlete who transfers to a Division I institution after loss of eligibility due to involvement in a violation of the freshman or transfer eligibility requirements for financial aid, practice and competition set forth in Bylaws 14.3.1, 14.5.4 and 14.5.5. The Management Council may waive these requirements only upon a determination of the innocence or inadvertent involvement of the student-athlete in the violation.

I'm not sure what a "loss of eligibility" means in this context. It seems clear that this section is designed to let players leave after specific sorts of NCAA violations, as long as they're innocent of them personally. FWIW, in 2003 all Baylor basketball players were eligible to leave immediately after the Bliss scandal. That's... uh... maybe a sui generis kind of thing, but the NCAA only banned Baylor from the postseason for one year.

In this specific case, Ole Miss's desperate attempt to keep the program together might backfire on them. Safety Deontay Anderson sat this year out and is now petitioning for immediate eligibility—he's even using Houston Nutt's lawyer!—because Ole Miss lied to him about the investigation:

According to Mars, Anderson claims that both Freeze and Bjork indicated that the NCAA investigation would not have a negative impact on the football program and that the bulk of the alleged violations pre-dated Freeze’s arrival, which was proven to be false. Those statements were allegedly made both in a group setting during Anderson’s recruiting visit on Jan. 29-31, 2016, and in private meetings with Freeze, including one instance where his father Michael Anderson implored Freeze to tell the truth about the severity of the allegations and potential penalties.

Ole Miss did not publicly release its first Notice of Allegations until May of that year.

According to Mars, Anderson submitted to the NCAA that he would not have signed with Ole Miss had those statements not been made.

“...in that individual meeting with Coach Freeze on Jan. 31 Mr. Anderson very emphatically asked to just tell the truth about the nature of the allegations and what the implications could be.

“Mrs. Anderson vividly remembers that, and so does Deontay and it underscores how important it was to all these student-athletes and their parents to get a full understanding of what the situation was and it underscores how unconscionable it was for them to be told anything less than the truth.”

If—when?—Anderson gets that waiver that should open the floodgates for the entire 2016 class. If Michigan gets Shea Patterson because Hugh Freeze was lying to everyone and people, including purported journalists, believed him, you will hear the deep rumble of my evil mastermind laugh from sea to shining sea.

Uh... is Patterson going to be eligible? I mean, #1 QB in the class of 2016 decides on Ole Miss?

Patterson wasn't implicated in any of the violations. And Ole Miss hired Patterson's brother Sean immediately after Patterson committed. That, rather than some money to keep mom's lights on, was likely the impetus to go play for Hugh Freeze. These days high-end QB recruits are often from affluent families that can afford the camp-trotting and intensive coaching; the Pattersons were probably focused more on the pot of NFL gold at the end of the rainbow than anything up front.

FWIW, like Devin Bush Sr., Sean is a legitimate football coach. He had analyst/QC roles at LSU and Arizona before his move to Ole Miss, and was a three-year starter at Duquesne prior to that. I'd bet a dollar that if Patterson transfers Sean will come along in a similar non-coaching role.

And you're fine with this?

I think players should be paid. I also think people should follow the rules laid out for them, and advocate to change them if they feel the rules are wrong instead of seeking personal advantage by breaking them under the table.

But what about Peters... and McCaffrey?

The major downside of taking Patterson is what it might do to Michigan's already desperately thin collection of QBs not currently in high school. Brandon Peters had a promising start to his career, and might take badly to Harbaugh importing a guy just when the depth chart opened up for him. While Patterson's a big fish, losing Peters would be a blow. I'm not sure maybe one year of Patterson backed up by McCaffrey is preferable to certainly two and maybe three years of Peters.

Any transfer in would be a delicate situation. Michigan's best approach might be emphasizing that Patterson wants to be a one and done; if that's the case than Peters's situation is basically identical to what it was with Speight around: competing for the job and maybe getting blocked for one more year.

McCaffrey's extra year means Patterson won't be as threatening to him; don't think it would impact him much.

Any other dudes we could pirate away? Especially tackle-shaped dudes? Please tell me there's a tackle-shaped dude.

The big fish is of course Greg Little, the former five star who was PFF's third-highest-graded SEC OT as a true sophomore. Little has given no public indication that he's on his way out, has no connection to Michigan, and doesn't have a brother in coaching that helps explain why on Earth he'd go to Oxford. He is in that 2016 class that might be set free, though, and if dude is thinking about heading to the NFL after 2018... I mean. It could happen! Shut up.

We've received some intel that Michigan is interested in one of Ole Miss's wide receivers. Sophomore AJ Brown, PFF's top-rated SEC WR, led the conference with 75 catches for 1200 yards this year and is also in that 2016 class; junior DaMarkus Lodge caught 41 balls for 700 yards and is definitely free and clear to transfer as a rising senior. We think it's Brown but aren't clear on that. (Correction: we think it's Van Jefferson.) While Michigan has a lot of upcoming talent at WR they have maybe one established outside WR in Donovan Peoples-Jones and could not turn up their nose at Brown.

Michigan has no other spots of glaring need and doesn't have a lot of room to play with—this recruiting class is going to be smallish—so it's unlikely they go after anyone who doesn't directly address QB, WR, or OT.

Is this actually happening? These things get talked about all the time and they never ever happen.

This one looks like it's actually happening. Patterson and the WR in question are tentatively scheduled to be on campus this weekend. That's much farther than these rumors usually get.

Comments

ak47

December 4th, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^

There are rumors that Shea wants a guarantee of a starting spot to transfer.  And his dad, who has been a less visible Lavar Ball at Ole Miss is leading that charge. He hasn't been good enough to bring that mess into town.  

Also apparently he puts up some solid numbers but also has a tendency to bug out at the sign of any pressure and run around a ton.  Not really sure this is a great fit, would much rather have Little.

M-Dog

December 4th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^

Even beyond the risk of a Peters transfer, is the risk of Peters not continuing to develop.

A wise man once said "You get better at football by playing football."

If Peters is the future because of his years of eligibility left, he needs to play, not watch from the bench.

The Rudock situation worked out great . . . but then we were back to square one after a single year.  At some point you want to get out of that mode.

 

MotownGoBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^

Back to square one after Rudock? We were better in 2016 than 2015. Both scenarios worked out extremely well. It was Speight (along with OLine woes) that hit his ceiling and regressed in 2017. This team is great-elite QB play (with improved OLine play) away from being a championship caliber team, again. I honestly thought we were the best team in the B1G in 2016, even with Wilton Speight at QB.

bronxblue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:59 PM ^

Yeah, I don't see the reason why people are clamoring for 1 year of another guy who will probably struggle early on in a new offense, then just when he's doing okay, it'll be the end of the year.

This team needs to block well for their QB, and that will go a hell of a lot farther than another guy in the backfield.

Mr Miggle

December 4th, 2017 at 4:33 PM ^

1. Patterson transfers here. Wins the starting job despite Peters having a two year head start under Harbaugh and his system. He plays really well and leaves for the NFL.

2. Peters plays just as well as Patterson would have. His draft stock soars and he leaves early for the NFL. Peters has the size the NFL wants. 

Peters is taller, more of a prototype NFL QB. If the two of them played equally well for different teams, I think Peters gets drafted higher. The Harbaugh pedigree helps too.

Under both scenarios, we're better off if Patterson transfers here. Under one we get better play next year. In both, we're in better shape in 2019. Patterson leaving early for the NFL is no sure thing. It's his plan. I'd expect him to adjust it if the NFL feedback is disappointing. Just like Peters isn't planning to declare early. But if he blew up and was projected to be a high pick, he probably would.

Obviously other scenarios are possible. But other than doom and gloom transfer speculation, we're better off with Patterson.

MotownGoBlue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:34 PM ^

Another angle to look at, if Patterson is brought on board and lights it up, is the potential of landing more blue chip dual threats in the future. Let’s be honest, very few highly touted offensive recruits are looking at us right now saying “damn, that’s the offense I want to play in!”

taistreetsmyhero

December 4th, 2017 at 1:35 PM ^

It’s fine and dandy to say, “Screw these kids’ feelings, I want Michigan to win football games and win them NOW!!!!” But if Patterson comes, Peters very well could decide to leave. That will (assuming Patterson starts and stays healthy) make it 5 years in a row of Harbaugh’s tenure without a returning quarterback. That is a huge red flag for recruiting, and opposing teams’ recruiters would throw that at us hard.

A one-year rental on a relatively unproven QB coming into a completely different offense with the potential to kill our potential 3-year starter QBs career here just doesn’t seem worth the risk.

Cosmic Blue

December 4th, 2017 at 1:39 PM ^

I'm seeing that other than Michigan, Patterson might be interested in UCLA. This could help us to possibly flip the commitment of Thompson-Robinson who chose UCLA over us. Could be a win-win for us

Lawyer12

December 4th, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^

If Patterson comes in, he’s the favorite and a major upgrade. Kid can sling it and is ready to play in a big time role.

Bambi

December 4th, 2017 at 2:06 PM ^

Posted this above but:

Vandy had the 16th ranked S&P passing defense. Patterson threw for 351 yards, 4 TDs and 0 picks on 35 attempts.

The other P5 pass defenses he faced were #59, #9, #1, and #24. He put up 7.3 YPA against those teams.

Peters faced the #65, #94, #53 and #7 pass defenses to S&P.  Against clearly inferior P5 opponents, he threw for the same YPA as Patterson. The only two teams he faced above Patterson's worst pass defense were Wisconsin (his worst DSR by far to Brian) and Minnesota (threw for 56 yards).

This is also ignoring South Alabama, the #88 pass defense (higher than Maryland) who Patterson torched.

My issue is that Peters hasn't torched anyone, MAC or else, while Patterson has multiple times. I'm not trying to say that Peters is bad and wouldn't be good next year, or that Patterson is a perfect God send. I'm saying he has clearly been better than Peters to this point, and it's not close.

We know all of Peters warts, and why many of his stats aren't his fault. So we give him a pass. But people just attribute all of Patterson's faults to be 100% his. He was exposed more because he didn't have a run game or D to rely on, so he had to take risks, expose himself to turnovers, etc. Patterson didn't have the luxury that Peters did to let his run game carve teams up. If Peters had to throw as much as Patterson, guaranteed you see worse numbers.

The ability of this board to cherry pick stats to this degree to try and argue Patterson = Peters to this point is astounding.

WorldwideTJRob

December 4th, 2017 at 2:30 PM ^

That’s the thing people are failing to realize. Patterson has done it against higher level competition for longer than Peters has. I really like BP as well, but right now it is nothing more than hope that he turns out to be a good QB. He is 36/63, 57%, 482 yards, 4TD/0Int since becoming the full-time starter. While that is good numbers for a first time starter, I suspect Harbaugh feels he may be able to do better by going for Patterson. Wether we have one of Peters/Patterson next year the depth chart is basically the same with a RS Freshman and 2 new recruits backing up the starter.

RP

December 4th, 2017 at 2:19 PM ^

Dear lord. I hope our players show a bit more resiliency in the face of adversity than some of you give them credit for. I would hope Peters wouldn't high tail it out if he had a new person to compete with.

Also, how has 100yds/gm against mediocre teams given all of you the confidence that Peters is the guy and that we should make all team decisions according to what will keep him here no matter what?

NateVolk

December 4th, 2017 at 2:27 PM ^

Good quarterbacks always welcome. 

The pool of guys who can excel at this level in the kind of offense Michigan runs are not deep and thick.

There is a reason only a couple teams won ANY games with a back up quarterback in Power 5.

Michigan won with 3 different guys and youth all over the place on the line and at receiver. I'd like to see another coach pull that off. 

A guy with baseline power 5 level talent and Harbaugh coaching him is a bet I'll lay money on any day. Especially with the general maturity of all the other pieces on the offense.

Mongo

December 4th, 2017 at 2:28 PM ^

he is short (~6'0") for a pocket passer and has happy feet like JOK.  So I am having a hard time picturing him under center running power run plays, counters and play-action passes.  And we tried that zone stuff with JOK and it was dismal.  Peters fits the JH scheme much better from a physical standpoint and shows good ball security / poise.  Dual-threat guys tend to be more erratic - they make big plays with their feet yet throw more picks. 

To me, Peters is the better fit for JH's system.  If we pick up Shea, it would be to add depth to a thin QB room.  Adding Shea avoids having to throw DM in too early and/or burn Milton's r.s.

If Shea can get a waiver to play this coming season, then JH may take him as insurance against Peters getting hurt or not developing.  But if Peters looks like he is losing his starting spot to Shea coming out of spring ball, it is high risk that Peers transfers.  So before pulling the string on this deal with Shea, JH would really need to get Peters to buy into it as good for team depth.  If Peters gives any indication of bolting, I would pass on Shea as too much risk.  Plus, can Shea even get medically cleared with a season-ending knee injury?  That would really suck if Peters transfers and Shea is ineffective due to knee problems or needs surgery.

 

mgogogadget

December 4th, 2017 at 2:37 PM ^

Looks like this is the WR the coaches are looking at for transferring.

https://247sports.com/Player/Van-Jefferson-33068/high-school-53515

Think it's pretty "interesting" that Michigan led with 31% of his 247 predictions at the time of his commitment with Ole Miss in fourth at 12%. Don't remember his recruitment, but seems like another good possibility, along with Patterson. For better or for worse, I suppose.

Alumnus93

December 4th, 2017 at 2:58 PM ^

So in watching a tv documentary on Robert Kraft, he was discussing how owning this tennis league, really helped him succeed later....  the relevant take from it were... 

he reiterated the importance of STAR POWER, that to legitimize this pro league he needed a bona fide star, and thats when he got Martina Navratilova... and it worked... he said this is of utmost importance, and I believe it parallels Michigan... we need a star, again, to legimitize the storied program and get it going again>>>>>> PATTERSON. To get back to where we were before the last two years of Carr until now, I think this is very necessary, otherwise I'm afraid we become a modern Tennessee that middles....

Now, when I first read about Patterson, I thought.. no, this will mess up Peters.. but Peters had his chance and things happen, he gets hurt at the most inopportune time, and thats the unfair risk. So be it.  

Watching Patterson's film, I am taken aback at his uber elite pocket awareness... this is Rusell Wilson level..... truly outstanding.  Bring him on.....

Mr Miggle

December 4th, 2017 at 3:09 PM ^

that might allow Patterson immediate eligibility. The ones he cited first about a loss of eligibility due to recruiting improprieties wouldn't seem to apply. Patterson and the other players didn't lose any eligibility.

Those rules were meant to apply to cases like Makhtar Ndiaye. He was at Wake Forest, but they broke a rule in his recruitment. He would have lost time if he stayed there, but was free to transfer and play immediately.

Michigan Made

December 4th, 2017 at 4:13 PM ^

would it make sense to demonstrate the merits of bringing in an experienced very elusive quarterback for Peter's safety? give your O line and extra year to gel and provide Peters less possibility of another concussion.

Blue Durham

December 4th, 2017 at 5:19 PM ^

make roster and transfer decisions absent fear of what players on the team might do. If the addition of Patterson makes the team better, then you take him. Fear of what an impacted player might do shouldn't dictate a coach's decision or policies.

ca_prophet

December 4th, 2017 at 5:52 PM ^

For example, we take Patterson, he wins the job and Peters transfers. Are we better? Or we take Patterson, and Milton bails. We lose out on 2019 recruits because they don't want to sit for two years before having a shot. Obviously we're better if he comes in and no one leaves or is deterred by the depth chart. It's the coaches job to determine which scenarios are how likely and what the picture looks like taking all possibilities into account.