Stupid Person Asking Question about End of Half Timeout
Rainy Tuesdays are much worse than Mondays, in my opinion, and I was hoping to see a few more thoughts about the time-out called with three seconds left in the half.
Here's my take: there is no significant risk from taking this timeout (chance of a successful hail mary is pretty minimal). However, there is not much reward there either, as the probability of a turnover-for-touchdown is even less than that of a conversion.
As a Brady Hoke apologist, and admittedly able to find the smallest amount of hope in the least-sensible ways, I would argue that it was a good call. The fact of the matter is: Penn State was content to let the clock run out and go in for a rest. Brady Hoke said, "wait a minute there, get on back out here and finish some football." I like the mindset because I am stupidly loyal and find humor in the call in that the opposition was trying to do one thing, and Michigan forced them to do the other.
I saw Space Coyote chime in on this as well in a different thread, I would like to hear a few more thoughts. Seems to me the general sentiment is it was bad because it gave them a chance to throw the ball to the endzone (if PSU thought they had a chance of converting, why didn't they try it themselves)?
October 14th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
Because it demonstrates that, like so many other things, Brady Hoke is simply incapable of anything other than magical thinking. You pointed it out yourself: he thought it was gamesmanship without understanding what the next logical move would be by the guy on the opposing sideline.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:42 PM ^
If Hoke expected a punt then he is a complete idiot. No coach in his right mind (well except maybe Brady Hoke) would punt in that situation. Why would any coach risk a blocked punt or a return?
No one is ever going to kick it to you in that situation.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^
absolutely right, I will give you that.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:24 AM ^
on our team right? If I was them I would have thrown a slant, countess would have escorted the WR to the end zone.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
That's probably not going to happen against an end-of-half prevent Cover 4.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
you and I may not agree on a lot of things but this is something I can get behind
October 14th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^
If you take a timeout there it has to be with at least 7 seconds on the clock to ensure that PSU won't try a hail mary. Then you can either try to setup a return or go for the block. Just better be damn sure not to get a roughing the punter and give them one free play from our 45.
Calling a timeout at 3 seconds was the worst possible thing to do for Michigan. This, along with the QB sneaks on 4th and 2 after staying set for like 10 seconds drove me crazy. You have to know situationals as a football coach.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
It would be nice to get clarification on this from Hoke, but it seems entirely plausible that Hoke tried to get the timeout with 7-10 seconds left, but the officials didn't acknowledge it until there were only 3 seconds left.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
He's usually pretty good about clarifying things, too.
(Is /s really needed here?)
October 14th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
True, there are a lot of questions Hoke sidesteps or obfuscates rather than answering, but in the after game presser, not a single reporter asked about the timeout.
October 14th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
The press corps is learning that Hoke press conferences are a waste of their time.
(I'm sorry. I'm not usually this snarky. I blame Brandon.)
October 14th, 2014 at 11:28 AM ^
approximately 0.7 players to injury on each snap. I would have just let it run out. I was surprised when nobody on our team blew out an ankle or a knee on that play.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
My take's dumber. It was a secretly brilliant move that may well have won us the game.
Penn State's line couldn't pass protect for more than two seconds at best. What better way to get a sack then to force the line to pass pro long enough for the receivers to run a 60 yard route? So they run the play, Hackenburg gets introduced to the artificial turf for a fourth time, and he returns in the second half a broken husk of a quarterback. Mission successful if you ask me.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
We should have punted immediately anytime we got the ball. That would have maximized our chances for a sack/fumble/TD return.
I don't know why no one has tried it before.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
The only reason to call the timeout with 3 seconds left is to have a chance that the punt is either blocked or snapped over the punter's head. Even if they take the timeout with 25 seconds left, it's a pretty dumb decision, because other than the above options, the only other positive thing that can happen would be Norfleet running it back. You know, the punt returner who has never returned one for a touchdown.
So what you are left with is PSU punting from around midfield, and your best (probable) outcome is that you get the ball somewhere between your own 10-20 yard line. With 20 seconds left, especially with a quarterback with a penchant for making bad decisions at the wrong time, you aren't doing anything but taking a knee and heading to the lockerroom.
Either way, taking the timeout with 25 seconds maybe makes a little sense, but taking the timeout with 3 seconds left is just dumb. Let the game go to half time.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
Punt plays don't take 25 seconds. Calling a timeout then would have made a lot of sense. You give yourself one final possession to throw a couple deep balls.
October 14th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^
Have you seen our passing offense? What about the first seven games makes you think anything good happens when Gardner starts from his own 20 and has 20 seconds to throw deep balls? The longest pass play of the day went for 42 and should have been intercepted.
Frankly, maybe PSU should have punted with 25 seconds left and see if Hoke would try to go for it. The odds were probably better that Gardner would give up a turnover and PSU could have gotten some points.
Again, the wise thing to do in that situation is just go to half time. Especially when you get the ball to start the second half.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
I can speak for just about everyone (me included) in Section 17...
"WHAT THE FUCK IS HE DOING CALLING TIMEOUT HERE???!!!!"
Several variations of that sentence were heard, from numerous sources.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
There are two options
- Don't call it at all
- Call it immediately with ~25 seconds left, Penn State likely punts and you've got a chance to return it or take a couple shots at the endzone yourself
Calling it with 3 seconds left gives Penn State a Hail Mary shot and Michigan virtually nothing (remote possibility of a pick six)
October 14th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
in my opinion, going for the block in this situation can set up a good return. punt block attempt leads to max protect by the punting team, meaning less time for punting team to get downfield and make a play on the returner.
October 14th, 2014 at 5:35 PM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
I was at the M club luncheon yesterday, and someone asked Brady about said. He said he wanted to force Franklin to do something, which is why he called a TO. Said he wished he had done it a few seconds earlier, but that's why.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 12:43 PM ^
The QB throws the ball immediately to a WR and yells "Do Something!"
It was funny on the playground. It's not funny coming from a coach making $4 million/yr.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
That's the only answer to the timeout. You admit that there's risk involved versus no risk involved in the inexplicable timeout. If he wanted to force them to punt, then take a timeout with time left on the clock. He literally waited until the only thing Penn State had to do was throw a Hail Mary.
If there's some macho mindset to "get on back there and play football," then the football he's playing is stupid. Football is a game defined by mitigating risks and exploiting strengths against opponent weaknesses, not "toughness" or "out toughing" the opponent. It's become much more complex and Brady Hoke isn't capable of dealing with the strategy involved in modern football.
Of all of the incompetence that Hoke has displayed, calling a timeout so that PSU could throw a Hail Mary at the end of the half might be the most quintessential of his ability to be a head coach of high level football.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
Hoke essentially gave tham another shot at the endzone for free. The probability of sucess is small, but there is still no reason to give them another shot at the endzone. The probability of Michigan forcing a turnover, and returning it for a touchdown is signifigantly smaller. Its like a stats professor playing the lotery.
The reason people are upset is that it appeared Hoke was hoping to force them to punt, and potentially get himself another shot at the endzone, and didnt realize that the PSU response would be to simply run another play.
Im not as down on Hoke as some other people are here, but that was a dumb call. Hoke should be fired because this team is uncompetative and just looks poorly coached. Taken seperately any of the issues people bring up here (headsets, timeouts, punt formations) really wouldnt be a big deal. But there certainly seems to be some pretty consistant screw ups, and on top of that his teams are bad.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
"Stats professor playing the lotery"
Well, I know one who did, because he found that even though he had a minimal chance of winning, the feeling of "what-if" was worth a dollar to him here and there.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
completely risk neutral and had nothing that would provide a competative advantage. There was also this stats professor who somehow managed to win the lottery 4 times.
http://freedomfathers.com/stanford-statistics-professor-four-time-texas…
October 14th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
If you call a timeout, you call it as soon as you can. They would have to punt and you send your punt team after the kick. You aren't thinking about a return for a touchdown, but a punt blocked for a touchdown, which Michigan has done a few times lately. Calling it when Hoke did was stupid, especially since he put the punt return team out there thinking Penn State would punt.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
No, No, No.
Whatever "reward" is there is far outweighed by some very bad things that could happen.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^
Brady figures he has only so many time outs left in his Michigan career and he ain't leaving any on the table.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
You know how I know this wan't part of a Hoke super-secret plan? HE SENT THE PUNT RETURN TEAM OUT THERE.
For all I know, Brady Hoke may be a very smart man. But that move demonstrated the strategic foresight of a new-born panda.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
I see no earthly reason for you to disparage new-born pandas! C'mon man!
Go Blue!
October 14th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
Are notoriously bad at end-of-half football strategy. It's just how they are. AND NO I AM NOT RACIST.
October 14th, 2014 at 4:18 PM ^
only in the time of our lives could anything in my statement be considered as racists ... hahahahaha !!! +1 sir!
Go Blue!
October 14th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
what about ... Kung Foo Panda? I think not ! /s
Go Blue!
October 14th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^
Yeah. Well I can only push my delusions so far, and this seems like a move you'd make while playing madden. I know that the programming in this game is going to cause the computer to punt, so I'll call a timeout (tee-hee). Oh an also, I find that running punt return safe is a pretty adequate defense while playing video games (those linebackers really have the ups to snatch anything over the middle).
But really, in my apologies I will stick to impulse reaction by Hoke forcing the opposition to do something that they weren't planning on doing; forcing Penn State back on the field when they thought they could get away with letting the clock run out.
October 14th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
I think Hoke loves to play weird psychological games with opponents, evidenced by his unwillingness to give out any, or outright lie about, injury information for even the most unimportant players. But his psychological games seem to largely be of the type that leaves his opponent scratching his head with curiosity as to what the heck Hoke is doing. I think these games are one way Hoke feels like he can make a difference, but they largely just have the effect of producing collective wtf's and smh's.
October 14th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
Most obnoxious response ever.
October 14th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^