Let’s play Explain the Fumble!
We won handily, as expected, and we are, by every metric (including the final score), the better team who will win this matchup 100/100 times. Let’s get the foregone conclusions established and out of the way.
I have never seen a fumble recovery be credited so long after a blown whistle. Seeing the ref clearly calling the play dead and Wallace casually tossing the ball to the ref as an afterthought…great for Michigan…but constituting as recovery possession…post-whistle?
But has anyone ever seen non-personal foul conduct post a whistled dead ball like that?
Please discuss.
I hope we draw the Noles, but I’m annoyed we may draw the Tide. Doesn’t matter.
Hail.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:20 AM ^
It was a little wack. Did not matter to the outcome one bit.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:21 AM ^
It was picked up cleanly by a Michigan player immediately after the whistle blew, an "imminent recovery." The ball hit the ground and bounced right to Wallace. As the rules state, they can award the ball to the recovering team in such cases, to protect against an inadvertent whistle robbing a team that would clearly get the football if the whistle had not blown.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:27 AM ^
Ok great. Thank you Sir stephen!
Your contributions to this point of convergence are well noted. Thanks for the explanation because I was…let’s use the word “befuddled”.
Mods, I’m ok with taking SJK’s word so let’s consider thread resolved plz feel free to delete.
HAIL.
December 3rd, 2023 at 4:17 AM ^
This is a level of snark that is not warranted, nor tolerated against the King of MgoPoints. I declare that a rebuttal must be made by the King!
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
Although the Internet demands sarcasm here I think his comment was genuine not Snark.
December 3rd, 2023 at 1:18 PM ^
1000%
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:57 AM ^
that was weird.
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:58 AM ^
That's not how airports work, man.
December 3rd, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
It was not at all clear Michigan would have recovered anyway. By the time Wallace grabbed the football, no one was playing anymore, for at least a half second, maybe more. With that many players within a few feet of the ball, it could have been anyone's ball had the whistle not been blown. The play is long dead, and Wallace's recovery looked nothing like the continuation of a football play.
I'm as much a homer as anyone, but that call was a mistake. It was a mistake to reverse the on-field decision and call it a fumble, and it was a mistake to award possession to Michigan even if that call was right.
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:01 AM ^
I disagree 50%. Blandino had it right on the broadcast: the fumble call was iffy, but if you make THAT call, then Michigan getting possession is absolutely the right call. I don't see how you can give it back to Iowa after a Michigan player picked up the ball, once you've determined it was a fumble in the first place.
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:07 AM ^
I agree. I thought whether the arm was going forward was the bigger issue with that play in conjunction with the call on the field. 9 times out of 10 the call on the field stands based on what we could see with his arm movement.
I will admit, it was hilarious watching the officials try to figure out "if the ball was going forward" in the arm of the Iowa QB. Because obviously, an Iowa player on offense is "never going forward" . . . . literally, figuratively, in any way really. Good Call Refs!
If the zebras have a sense of comedic timing an humor, that was about as good as it will ever get.
December 3rd, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
Do we know the wording of the "arm moving forward" rule? Cause in my mind, if the ball is still in his hand, and Sainristil jars it loose before it is leaving his hand, then I don't see how that could not be a fumble.
Maybe there is some rule about if the quarterback's arm is moving forward, it can never be a fumble, but the ball definitely had not left his hand when Mikey jarred it loose.
Admittedly, it was a weird play, and the ball flying forward makes it seem more like a pass since Hill was able to get some forward momentum on it, but it looked to me like Sainristil got to the ball before it had even begun to leave Hill's hand, which should be a fumble.
December 3rd, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
Do we know the wording of the "arm moving forward" rule? Cause in my mind, if the ball is still in his hand, and Sainristil jars it loose before it is leaving his hand, then I don't see how that could not be a fumble.
The distinction between fumble / incomplete pass has nothing to do with whether the ball is still in the QBs hand. If the ball is stripped prior to the throwing motion, or during the motion, but prior to the QB's arm and the ball beginning to move forward, then it's a fumble. As soon as the ball begins to move forward in the act of passing, even while still in the QB's hand, the ball getting knocked away results in an incomplete pass, just as if the ball where batted down after leaving the QBs hand.
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:15 AM ^
Watching the play, it's entirely fair to assume Wallace would've had it anyway, because it bounced to where he was the only player in arms reach of the thing, and they blew the whistle while the ball was bouncing there.
It's also entirely fair to point out that as the game-winning point was scored on M's very first drive of the game, it had no real bearing on the final outcome.
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:06 AM ^
That's kind of what I was thinking. It seemed like there weren't any Iowa players who were right in the vicinity and would have theoretically challenged Wallace for the ball. It's kind of unusual on a fumble like this, but it did see like it pretty much went right to him in an area where he would have obviously been the one to recover. Admittedly, maybe enough time passed after the whistle that there were Iowa players who could have made a play on the fumble--it's just hard to tell. I, for one, am just glad that a wonky play with debatable officiating and huge implications went our way for once!
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:03 AM ^
All you've said is true, but watching and rewatching it, there's a chunk of time between whistle and nonchalant recovery, while everyone else has stopped. Unless you wrote a rule about it specifying the tenths of seconds that can elapse, which would be absurd, one has to live these events that people won't agree with. So, what you say is correct, one could still come to a different conclusion.
In an otherwise perfect world, what should have happened is that the officials let the play continue and then review whether it was a fumble---and probably overturn the call to incomplete pass. My initial reaction was that it was a bullsh** call. I haven't changed my mind.
This also points to a flaw in the system. In cases when you let a play run even though you're kind of sure it shouldn't, then the standards of review should be 50-50, not tilted heavily to the call on the field.
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^
I frequently hear this line of thinking (don't blow the whistle and let replay sort it out) and it makes some sense. The flip side is that by not blowing the whistle, the call on the field becomes fumble and now you're supposed to have solid evidence to overturn that call. So, if it is a true 50/50 call, by not blowing the whistle, the refs are tilting the outcome to fumble.
December 3rd, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
I think letting it play out should go with discussing after the play ends what the ruling on the field is, so it could still be declared incomplete on the field.
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^
I actually thumbs up your comments when they aren't long enough to need a scroll button!
December 3rd, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
This is the reason they teach football players to grab every loose ball regardless of the whistle.
Good teams, especially defenses, always pick up loose balls.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:27 AM ^
Yes, I’ve seen recoveries after the whistle was blown in similar situations. I don’t know why that is so controversial, even Dean Blandino agreed with that aspect of the play.
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:16 AM ^
Reminds of a "penalty try" in rugby, which may likely be the origin of the rule. Or "clear path" in the NBA which is more recent.
Just a weird moment in a game where the officials are attempting to tell everyone what most likely would have happened and then making it so.
December 3rd, 2023 at 10:08 AM ^
I, too, have seen this. If the play is ruled a fumble, the question becomes can the officials clearly determine which team recovered the ball? If no one picks up the ball or it is left unclaimed under a pile of players, the offense gets the ball back by default. This was a heads up play by Wallace.
December 3rd, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^
Pretty sure it happened to us once 10 years ago or so. Michigan State game?
Ruled incomplete on the field, MSU player picked it up and they gave them the yardage and spotted it there.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:30 AM ^
I didn’t read it. Was he talking about when Mikey Sainristil forced the fumble? Because you can’t deny… Because you other brothers can’t deny, that even though he is small in stature, that he made a play when it really mattered. Defer to the bass guitarist
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:45 AM ^
Water and Aleve my friend!
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:32 AM ^
Every bad call against Michigan in the 80's and 90's being paid back by the football gods. Enjoy. I didn't get it.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:41 AM ^
Exponential upvotes.
December 3rd, 2023 at 3:04 AM ^
Exponential upvotes.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:42 AM ^
I definitely remember a Michigan-ND game (Henne era?) where we were trying to qb sneak into their end zone. There was a fumble on the play but the refs didn’t know and blew the play dead. It went right to a ND player and on review they were awarded the ball, and it was the right call. This seemed longer after the whistle, but Wallace is the only player who was getting that ball. The ref mistake was blowing the play dead. Wallace could have run that back for a TD.
December 3rd, 2023 at 7:09 AM ^
Was that when they first started replay? Carr was furious that they didn't review MIchigan breaking the plane of the goal line on the prior play but on the next play, they reviewed a Michigan fumble. (I think the officials initially awarded the ball to Michigan to makeup for the blown call on the play before but then replay took it away.) This initiated the Carr rule which is review every (potential) scoring play.
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:51 AM ^
This sounds like the 2005 Notre Dame game where we lost the fumble at the 1 yard line.
Review in college football was “under construction” during that season. As many will painfully recall, later that year during the Alamo Bowl against Nebraska, the Sun Belt officials were putrid. Lloyd had to waste all three of our second half timeouts in order to get three obvious blown calls looked at and reversed.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:46 AM ^
Pretty sure this exact thing happened in multiple games last weekend (SEC games even) and every time it was awarded to the defense. There was even one that clearly looked like an arm coming forward… maybe it was the NFL games, I can’t exactly remember.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:48 AM ^
the better team who will win this matchup 100/100 times
You must not watch much football. The "better" team does not always win... usually yew, but not 100/100.
December 3rd, 2023 at 2:55 AM ^
In this case 99/100. Iowa cannot score points, even if they played absolutely amazing defense, eventually they'll slip and someone scores. Their offense spends half it's energy trying not to turnover the ball and lose yards.
December 3rd, 2023 at 3:06 AM ^
That was /hyperbole.
I watch a lot of football.
December 3rd, 2023 at 3:04 AM ^
They should have let it play out and not blown the whistle. At least we picked up the ball. It was probably a fumble.
December 3rd, 2023 at 6:20 AM ^
Is this how people talk right before posting a link to their OnlyFans?
December 3rd, 2023 at 7:33 AM ^
The recovery call made sense, even though it was about as late as they’ll allow clear recovery to apply. I couldn’t make sense of the placement of the ball on the 6 and didn’t realize, until Alex’s game column, that they’d thrown a flag on B Ferentz. Did they mention it on the broadcast at all (my party was fairly loud at that point)?
December 3rd, 2023 at 7:58 AM ^
I'd assume he was arguing that it was an incompletion rather than a fumble. And he may have been right, I personally thought the ball moves forward just a tiny bit, so the ruling of incomplete probably should have stood. Honestly it was close enough that it was one of those that should have stood as called on the field; video evidence probably shouldn't have overturned either outcome.
Obviously it's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. Iowa wasn't getting points on that drive. It was, at most, the difference between Michigan covering the spread or not..
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:18 AM ^
They did eventually say it. It was a bizarre sequence because they needed to get 39 more commercials in.. I'm honored that they let us see the touchdown run. But it was not called in real time. Not clearly. Just ferentz shown screaming like any of it really mattered
December 3rd, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
Yep--they mentioned it on the broadcast. Showed footage of Ferentz going ballistic but didn't show the replay of the flag actually being thrown or the refs announcing the penalty. It was so crazy that they came back from a bunch of commercials and it was like, "oh, by the way, Michigan now has first-and-goal from the 6.
December 3rd, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
Doug and Jon mentioned it when they got back from commercial break on the Michigan Radio broadcast. They didn't mention it was Brian Ferentz, but the replay on tv made that obvious.
December 3rd, 2023 at 7:40 AM ^
I have seen it before. It went against the Lions and I was pissed, so it has happened before. Even the ref commentator said they give a few seconds leeway after the whistle for a recovery.
December 3rd, 2023 at 7:53 AM ^
Not unusual for the refs to be clueless. This is why you ALWAYS hustle after any loose ball that you see - you never know how it got that way.
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
I'm always surprised that's not taught more, by coaches. If there's a loose ball, that even could be a fumble, fall on it. Even if they blow the whistle. Fall on it. I'll sometimes see loose balls just rolling to a stop on potential turnovers and lose my mind. :-)
Same with, by the way, if you pick up a ball you think might be a fumble or get what could be an interception, run to the endzone. I don't care if it's 80 yards away. Run to the endzone.
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:02 AM ^
It was discussed during the game. The explanation was laid out, and spelled out. Did you not believe them? Was it not good enough?
December 3rd, 2023 at 8:03 AM ^
All replays should be 60 seconds max. Figure it out and move on. 10 minute replays are very obnoxious and disrupt the game almost as much as the 4 minute commercials
December 3rd, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Agreed. In every sport. The standard is so simple. If you can clearly see the call was wrong — the Galarraga perfect game, for instance — change it. But I don't honestly need really really close calls overruled. We went 100+ years enjoying college football without instant replay, and just accepting referees calls.
No need to get into Zapruder-film-level analysis on these, especially because so often what the referees conclude is "clear and convincing" remains, to the team on the wrong end of the decision, frustratingly not so. Just look at it, say "seems not an egregious mistake," and get the game moving.
December 3rd, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
Believe it or not, commercials on Fox are usually 2:30. ESPN will occasionally throw in a 3:00.