Fascinating elevenwarriors breakdown of Jim Knowles “spill and kill” defense.
I don’t know about you guys but I can’t get enough schematic content during this week. (Even if it’s enemy content)
The Jim Knowles vs Weiss battle is gonna be a good one.
The gist of the article is that Michigan loves to f*ck with defensive keys with motion and pullers… and Jim Knowles loves to win gaps, attack pullers and spill to the field for cleanup.
November 23rd, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
Also fOSU as per board protocol.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:03 PM ^
OSU
is
moist
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:06 PM ^
They are the woist.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:44 PM ^
OSU or Orji?
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:46 PM ^
moist panties
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:13 PM ^
Sounds soft and gimmicky.
Punch them in the face.
November 23rd, 2022 at 6:36 PM ^
Here's another more detailed breakdown of the defense from 11w:
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:47 PM ^
I’ve only watched a couple UM games, and brief portions of games I recorded. Do I really see UM running power against a bear front and not having a man assigned to block the Mike LB? I know I’m not seeing things, any idea why they scheme it that way?
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:16 PM ^
Let’s see how the scheme holds up against a pulling Olu.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:20 PM ^
Not sold on this Knowles guy. Half of their season has been spent playing putrid offenses like Iowa, Rutgers, MSU, Wisconsin, Northwestern etc. then when they play teams like PSU or Maryland they get lit up.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
I mean Michigan also played three of those five you mentioned!
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
Sure I can see that, but wouldn’t the inverse be true?
Maryland put 27 points and nearly 400 yards on us.
And PSU always plays OSU tough going back many years.
if Jim Knowles only contribution is gap soundness, that’s a big step up for OSU from last year
i guess we will see
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:49 PM ^
Everyone says OSU was soft last year when in reality, they were horribly coached in a horrible scheme. To your point, just being gap sound is a huge improvement.
November 23rd, 2022 at 9:26 PM ^
Which is why they fired their whole defensive staff except their DL coach. They've only given up over 1100 yards on the ground this year over 11 games and heard on Channel 10 - here in Columbus - that they gave up that much in 4 games last year ......Us, Oregon and 2 others I didn't catch. A totally different defense this year and they rotate 9 to 10 DL every game
November 24th, 2022 at 9:34 AM ^
They rotate too many DL IMO and I think those snap counts change on Saturday. The linebacker unit is vastly different this year. Watch Eichenberg during The Game last year. At the snap he would be 5 yards off the ball and would shuffle, shuffle while trying to diagnose the play. Now they have him playing at the correct depth, he quickly diagnoses the play, and then attacks. LB play and gap soundness are their best improvements. They have NFL safeties (Hickman/Ransom) but their corners are a liability.
November 24th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
Being stuck here in Central Ohio, I here all of the OSU stuff and you could be right about their DL rotation. In fact, that's the biggest complaint from their fans - on the defensive side - is that they rotate too many DL thus not letting the starters get a feel for the game.
But you are dead on about their LBs. They went from being totally lost last year to possibly the strength of their defense this year. Eichenberg and that Steel "something" - especially Eichenberg, seem to be in on every play. They will definitely be focused on stopping our RBs on Saturday. We will need a decent game out of JJ as Pass defense is their weakness
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:35 PM ^
PSU and Maryland both put up 30 on them. Even MSU, Wisconsin, and Toledo got 20.
The worst Michigan has done is 27 to Maryland, then 17 each to Illinois, Rutgers, and PSU.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
Now go look up how many points have been scored on Ohio compared to us.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:57 PM ^
I don’t think this data point is all that relevant for our matchup.
Both teams are in the Top 10-15 in points allowed
If common opponent is your cup of tea, it’s pretty easy to see these teams are evenly matched.
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:26 PM ^
What people are missing is the effect of passes over 10 yards, incompletions, and a much faster snap. I had the under in the Indiana OSU game and although I knew Indiana was hurry up I was surprised by OSU up 28 and going like their hair was on fire. Just a lot more opportunities (for them and the other teams offense). Its really difficult to compare to Michigan playing like they are up 9 with a minute to go all game long.
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:54 PM ^
This is exactly what I was thinking, it’s a completely different rule of engagement for OSU thank us.
We must have an elite defense.
They only need a good defense.
And I just mad myself sad.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:46 PM ^
I think there is a teeeny chance that Maryland did not have their complete* attention last week.
November 23rd, 2022 at 5:29 PM ^
Ohio State's defense has faced:
- Penn St F+ #27 offense
- Maryland F+ #37 offense
- Michigan St F+ #49 offense
- Notre Dame F+ #50 offense
- Toledo F+ #56 offense
- Wisconsin F+ #65 offense
- Indiana F+ #66 offense
- Arkansas St F+ #89 offense
- Iowa F+ #104 offense
- Northwestern F+ #108 offense
- Rutgers F+ #114 offense
That's an average ranking of #70 with a median of #65.
Michigan's defense has faced:
- Penn St F+ #27 offense
- Maryland F+ #37 offense
- Michigan St F+ #49 offense
- Indiana F+ #66 offense
- Nebraska F+ #74 offense
- Illinois F+ #88 offense
- Iowa F+ #104 offense
- Hawaii F+ #113 offense
- Rutgers F+ #114 offense
- UConn F+ #122 offense
- Colorado St F+ #129 offense
That’s an average ranking of #84 with a median of #88.
November 23rd, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^
Blah blah blah.... Fuck ohio
November 23rd, 2022 at 6:51 PM ^
Ooof. Uh oh.
November 23rd, 2022 at 6:54 PM ^
Do you know what the numbers looked like, comparatively, in 2021?
I’d be curious whether they are similar.
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:59 PM ^
I do not know what the rankings were entering The Game last year, but these are season-ending rankings.
Both teams faced the following offenses in 2021:
- Michigan St F+ #29
- Nebraska F+ #30
- Maryland F+ #34
- Penn St F+ #69
- Indiana F+ #111
- Rutgers F+ #117
OSU's defense also faced the following offenses in 2021:
- Oregon F+ #16
- Purdue F+ #35
- Minnesota F+ #55
- Tulsa F+ #77
- Akron F+ #122
Average of #63, median of #55.
Michigan's defense also faced the following offenses in 2021:
- Western Michigan F+ #40
- Wisconsin F+ #60
- Northern Illinois F+ #66
- Washington F+ #96
- Northwestern F+ #109
Average of #69, median of #66.
November 24th, 2022 at 1:25 AM ^
Thank you.
it looks like the delta / difference in their relative ranking was 11 spots in 2021, and it’s about 20 this year.
I am looking forward to Saturday…
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:23 PM ^
The narrative before The Game this year: Coombs was 100% of the problem!
The narrative after The Game this year: It was Knowles' first year, he needs more time!
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:58 PM ^
The pressure is all on Ohio. I’ll give them their excuse for next year, “Stroud left so we can’t expect a win in the Big House.”
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:59 PM ^
From your lips to Gods ears
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:27 PM ^
If we promise to let them have this excuse can we shake on it now?
November 23rd, 2022 at 8:56 PM ^
I promise you that no one is going to say Knowles needs more time. Expectations are a top 10 defense year 1.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:27 PM ^
This is Don Brown shit. Reminder Day tried to hire Don AFTER 2018, this is what he wants.
Good guys just have to do to them what Wisconsin did to Michigan with Don Brown in 2019-20.
November 23rd, 2022 at 5:10 PM ^
Wisconsin was using Taylor to attack a 3-3-5 that had an undersized Kemp and an overhyped Jeter.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
Interesting article, agree I need some X&O comment to hold me over while I mash F5 waiting for UFR and FFFF.
But I don't see anything about a spill & kill philosophy in that piece. It shows that Illinois was able to disrupt the running game by playing 5 DL with three 300 lbers and 7-8 guys in the box, is OSU going to do that? And then it shows that OSU DL are very good at winning blocks, not necessarily anything to do with play calling. For instance the first clip he says "all 4 DL cross the face of their blockers and 3 get penetration before the handoff" and the final clip "DE takes on double and NT beats center" 2 yards back into rb path disrupting the play.
But football outsiders does say their DL is top 25 in every category against the run, i.e. power success rate, stuff rate, line yards, etc. So maybe they are pretty good then?
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:44 PM ^
My apologies I got the article confused, I read another about Jim Knowles spill and kill strategy for standard down.
To your point, the DL resetting gaps can gum up the best OLs for at least a Quarter.
my biggest fear is our non-corum running back’s cut back vision that Seth touched on.
Corum is master at pressing gaps only to cut to another one at the last second. He is a human gap multiplier.
While Edwards and to a lesser extent stokes are good runners. I don’t think they can consistently get yard beyond what’s blocked.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:58 PM ^
Yeah that article actually didn't do much to explain Knowles system at all. D-line fighting across OL, linebackers filling gaps isn't scheme or technique breakdown. All defenses do that.
I constantly hear that Eleven Warriors's technical breakdowns are pretty good, but I'm consistently left thinking "this entire article is less informative than Seth's opening paragraph of a neck sharpie." Whereas the MGoBlog crew give you a breakdown with many examples of things, draw parrallels to past games/teams, examine depth charts and so and on, this article just said "hey we fill gaps now".
I'm very anxiously waiting for the FFFF and Ohio State breakdowns from Brian & Seth because it's clear that Ohio State writers simply can't provide anything worthwhile
November 23rd, 2022 at 2:03 PM ^
100%
Admittedly, I’m a sucker for football techno babble
Re-reading the article I think its incomplete, the author didn’t break down the cons of Knowles defensive philosophy.
Need a Mgoblog FFFF breakdown like yesterday
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:30 PM ^
OSU not being able to stop the Northwestern run on a windy/rainy day.
UM not being able to pass much against an MSU and Rutgers secondary.
Which one was true and which one was a bad day at the office.
We shall see.
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:41 PM ^
I wouldn't read too much into the MSU game offensively; that was clearly a gameplan decision given the flow of the game. Had Michigan needed to bomb it away on them my guess is they had plays drawn up to get guys open. Rutgers and Illinois are more troubling because those teams slowed down UM's receivers but to McCarthy's credit he was 9/15 in that 4th quarter and led Michigan to scores on their last 3 drives of the game despite facing an average 3rd-down distance of 7.5 yards. It wasn't great but when tasked with moving a team down the field against a top defense McCarthy was able to do it reasonably well.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:34 PM ^
Interesting stuff. I'm not a football analyst but I have read nearly every word of Mgoblog for years, and to me it just looked like fairly generic "sell out against the run" stuff. Like it's a bunch of fancy stuff messing with the gaps, but to do it you're committing six or seven guys to run defense. It's smart for them to play that way because it's high risk/reward and they either give up a big play or force a three-and-out and either way their offense is getting the ball back. They're forcing you to win a game of big plays against their offense. Will be interesting to see Brian's take, but I'm guessing we'll need everything we've got including RPOs, QB run game and efficient passing to move the ball on them. LFG.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
That makes sense for OSU. We dominated last year because they couldn’t stop us from bleeding them slow.
To Michigan consistent 5-20 yard rushing gains are worth more that “boom or bust” 50+ yard gain that put OSU offense on the field quickly.
Man Saturday is decades away. I’m a nervous wreck.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:38 PM ^
Interesting discussion, but everything changes if Corum is significantly impaired. McCarthy and the receivers need to have their best games of the year. The defense has to find a way to bring some pressure. It would be nice to get some help from the weather.
November 23rd, 2022 at 1:46 PM ^
That's cool and all, until you play Northwestern and "spill and kill" turns into "spill and...spill again"
November 23rd, 2022 at 2:17 PM ^
My view is that the Buckeyes D probably improved from 2021. This is an expectation I would have of every team - the majority of teams improve from one year to the next, unless there is a significant loss of talent to the draft, or transfer portal.
I think their line play is the point of question. And, these are two data points I view.
One - in the season opener, ND was predictably one dimensional because of injuries to their receiving corps. A new QB, new HC, changes to their OL, etc.. - SO, you could make a pretty good guess that ND's offensive game plan was going to be run heavy.
Two - the game against Northwestern in the wind. Once again, conditions dictated a run first offense, which was predictable.
I liked how their D controlled the ground game of those two opponents - particularly, since they knew the ground game was expected. And, these data points present a picture that gives me confidence.
The 4-2-5 base scheme is perfect for Big 12 play. I hope they've perfected it for the pass happy offenses in that conference. Perhaps they'll face a Big 12 team in their bowl game.
Again, I'm not counting any chickens. Nor, do I see a "decided schematic advantage" being brought to bear by that team in Columbus.
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:02 PM ^
Sounds like the Buckeyes have it all figured out. /S
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:03 PM ^
Fuck Ramzy Nasrallah, Eleven Warriors, tOSU, the City of Columbus, and the Entire State of Ohio.
Go Blue! Beat the Buckeyes!
November 23rd, 2022 at 3:33 PM ^
OSU's defense will come prepared in this game but let's not act like they've faced a rushing game close to Michigan's. I could absolutely see them mess with Michigan's blocking assignments and pick up some TFLs but they really haven't played an offense as balanced as Michigan's. I know we bemoan the passing game struggles but it's still demonstrably better than all but Maryland's and maybe PSUs, and both of those teams were able to move the ball in the air despite having sub-par running games.
Now, if Edwards and Corum are out then sure, this is going to be tough sledding for UM. But provided those guys can play reasonably well I think this will be a dogfight where both defenses display competence with spurts of the other team getting them for big gains.