MSU HC Tucker calls himself a 'horsesh*t coach'
Here's a link to the quotation, via Twitter.
Obviously, I enjoy this because it's MSU, &c. His self-critique seems accurate, too, because he personally helped to coach the DBs.
One sub-topic I'm interested in hearing about from the board, putting aside the football aspect of it, is how helpful saying this about oneself can be.
On one hand, I like frankness and willingness to take responsibility. I really dislike it in others and myself to not be honest about what happened and attempt to rewrite the past, often to feel better. Though on the other hand, I do think there is truth to some ideas that we listen to the things we say about ourselves and that negative talk can harm your output and growth. Is the solution maybe to be honest about the situation but not describe it in absolute terms about yourself? Something like, "I made this mistake, but I am capable of better."
September 20th, 2022 at 1:01 PM ^
Saying they should go for 2 there is the same as saying every team should go for 2 every time.
It's not. The advantage comes because the opposing (winning) team already has their scoring locked in and doesn't get the opportunity to match by going for 2 themselves.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:59 PM ^
Yeah, I mispoke. I meant every team every time they are down 21 points. So just to be clear, you would argue that any team down 28-7, at any point in the game, should go for 2 if they score to make it 28-13?
That's interesting and I understand the math - your overall win prob goes up, at a much higher risk of losing in reg. I don't think I've ever seen a team do what you're suggesting though.
Fair enough - maybe Tuck is actually the only smart coach!
September 20th, 2022 at 11:54 AM ^
I am not so sure.
This ignores what the other team does in reaction to your choices and the other team may be more aggressive down 6 than 7. I won't be as content to try and milk the clock only up 6 knowing a TD pretty much guarantees a loss.
September 20th, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
This is a mis-application of the correct general theory in my opinion. This type of math is great with a couple minutes left in the game, where if the other team scores in between the "two point theory" you essentially lose at a 99.9% rate. In other words, the total number of possible outcomes are low. This event happened at the 11:59 mark of the third quarter, so your math is only right assuming you pitch a second half shutout...pretty unlikely after giving up 29 first half points.
September 20th, 2022 at 2:09 PM ^
https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/john-harbaugh-explains-decision-to…
The Ravens have been very ahead of the trend of when to go for 2 as well.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:06 AM ^
"I'm a horseshit coach. Fortunately, I have a $95 million fully guaranteed contract, so it doesn't really matter."
September 20th, 2022 at 3:14 AM ^
That's the face of a horse sense negotiator.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:17 AM ^
Neil Cornrich, Mel's agent, got all that money for 2 victories over UM. I know it wasn't for his 20-15 overall record at the time.
September 20th, 2022 at 11:01 PM ^
Tell me Neil Cornrich is from Nebraska or Iowa. He HAS to be.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:09 AM ^
As a coach there are times when I have taken the heat for a particularly bad performance. This is at the high school level so maybe a little different.
I didn’t do it publicly but in the locker room after we had a howler. It allowed the players to quickly move past the performance and go out and compete much better the next day.
It is strategy, when used sparingly, can be effective. Again consider the level of play.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:13 AM ^
Perhaps. Perhaps. I'd put it together what I believe are the odds against him ever living up to his salary--in almost any sane person's esteem--and lay my own pretty good odds that this turns out to be Tucker's very own John L. Smith moment.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:27 AM ^
One of Jack Harbaugh's stories from the AED podcast was about one of his old coaches (head coach at BG when he was assistant?) who at halftime would go into the locker room and apologize to the players, saying he was sorry that he hadn't coached them better, that they weren't in any position to compete (much less win) in this game, and please try and forgive him for the ass-whuppin' they were about to receive in the 2nd half.
Jack said the players would go out and play like berserker Tasmanian devils after that speech.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:24 AM ^
Schmuck comin
(note: I do like introspection and accountability, but Tucker + Staee = snide comment is mandatory)
September 20th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
I wish he'd actually made up a bunch of excuses like CJ Stroud after the 42-27 game. Accountability is the way to go after a loss like that, so I give him respect for taking the blame and letting the players move on. But hopefully with a few more losses, we start to see him whine and complain.
Last year, there was a moment after the Purdue loss where he passive aggressively blamed the refs literally a week after Sparty fans told Michigan fans not to blame the refs after that horseshit game in East Lansing, which was pretty funny. I want more of that Mel Tucker
September 20th, 2022 at 1:29 AM ^
That might have worked for Nick Saban. You sir, are no Nick Saban.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:33 AM ^
I could care less what he says. I am just happy to see Michigan State lose a game.
September 20th, 2022 at 2:05 AM ^
Self-negging throws water on legitimate criticism and in some instances can result in praise being put on the individual (or in this case people rushing to say it isn’t his fault, how humble he is for taking the blame, etc). To me, this feels like manipulative behavior.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:18 AM ^
Everybody is a psychologist these days.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:41 AM ^
That's why I chose phrenology. Wanted to be different.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:44 AM ^
That's something I didn't consider. Would be interesting to see a video of what was going on to better understand the social context of the comments; maybe there's something to it. Or alternatively, maybe he was trying to limit criticism by giving it himself.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:56 AM ^
He's playing the B. Rabbit card.
Can't get owned if you own yourself first.
September 20th, 2022 at 1:50 PM ^
He got a dumb friend named Plaxico Bob who shoots himself in the leg with his own gun?
September 20th, 2022 at 9:46 AM ^
Have we reached a point of such extreme cynicism that anything can be construed as manipulative behavior? If this worked, people would do it more often. But in practice, self-deprecation usually results in the public gleefully piling on.
I'm no fan of Tucker, but I'll give him this: how the heck else is he supposed to say it in a way that isn't manipulative? Do you honestly think after last week's beatdown that MSU fans are going to rush to heap praise on him just because he negged himself? Is there some exact, surgically precise, rhetorically perfect word-for-word phrasing that he fell short on (because he can't read your damn mind) that would've convinced you, or are you just too far gone to interpret anything said by anyone as just, well, candid? It's not like saying this gets him off the hot seat.
FFS I can't recall the last time I saw anything even slightly resembling humility or introspection from a public figure, much less a (technically) civil servant, and least of all from within MSU. And no wonder! We got folks here micropsychoanalyzing this comment like he's negotiating hostages.
This rankles not because it's Tucker per se, but because this logic works on everyone. It's basically cult of anti-personality: instead of single-minded worship a schmuck, some Internet chin-strokers can turn anything said by anyone into poison. Because of them, public figures have long abandoned humility. After all, where's the upside? Someone's just going to point and go "he's being manipulative" and lo, the court of public opinion has decided. And kids see this, and learn that being an all-attacking jerk is the way to go, and their chin-stroking parents have the nerve to complain that humility is dead.
Sometimes, someone just says something in public that happens to be true, and it really irritates me that some people can't allow that to happen.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:41 AM ^
I for one, believe him. He is a horseshit coach.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:45 AM ^
Sure. I didn't say he was wrong.
September 21st, 2022 at 3:14 AM ^
Right. In effect, you said that too many people are too cynical to take things at face value. I took it at face value.
September 20th, 2022 at 2:11 PM ^
Agree completely.
He should've just gone with the tried and true, "I'm sorry if anyone was offended by our performance out there."
September 20th, 2022 at 2:27 AM ^
I'm a diehard Chicago Bears fan. Tucker was probably the worst defensive coach we've had since the early 2000's. I was elated when MSU hired him.
September 20th, 2022 at 2:56 AM ^
Imagine how well off we would all be if early in our careers our boss took our most productive year , calculated a salary assuming we would do that or better each year, then tripled that and guaranteed it for next 10 years.
September 20th, 2022 at 11:04 PM ^
That happened to me. Then my alarm woke me up.
September 20th, 2022 at 4:30 AM ^
I personally respect a man who turns down the MSU job, then reconsiders for the money. I do not prefer the coaches that just stick with MSU for life.
So I am 100% on team horseshit.
September 20th, 2022 at 6:08 AM ^
Who are we to disagree?
September 20th, 2022 at 7:00 AM ^
Not that I like anything about MSU, but this guy doesn't offend me nearly as much as Dantonio.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:13 AM ^
Give it time.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:23 AM ^
This is where I am at. Even if he is 2-0 vs. Michigan, I find the rivalry much more enjoyable with Tucker as coach vs. Dantonio. Tucker seems to be a decent guy. Dantonio, however, said shitty things and did shitty things (like start a player the Saturday after they got released from jail).
Of course, I’d always take a John LLLL Smith or Bobby Williams if I could, but if they are going to have a half competent coach, he isn’t that bad.
And if he turns out to be a less than half competent coach, the way they’ve branded themselves to be all about the coach will bite them a little bit.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:31 AM ^
Yeah, the "cult of personality" coaches...that's a dangerous path.
September 20th, 2022 at 10:53 AM ^
Losing to MSU remains intolerable because of their fans, but the UM-MSU game used to make me nervous. Winning was a secondary concern to the fear I would witness violence that would count as serious crimes if not for being institutionally sanctioned and taking place within a painted white rectangle.
But since Tucker took over, I have noticed a marked decrease (not elimination, but tangible progress nonetheless) in MSU attempts to end Michigan playing careers. A lot of that depraved violence had to have been Dantonio's influence, and I wonder about how many player psyches were damaged because MSU celebrated that culture.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:28 PM ^
Yep. Dantonio will always be dogshit to me, and was before he ever beat Michigan, for the "moment of silence" comment after we lost to App St, when he hadn't even faced Michigan as MSU head coach yet, and the program he'd just taken over had lost five in a row to them. Then, after Michigan rammed the comment up his ass by beating his team and mocking him with their own "moment of silence" at the Spartan Stadium 50-yard line, he had the balls to go and play the whiny bitch victim to the press. And fuck the press too for never pushing back on that, just like they let MSU ride with the "Little Brother" comment inferiority complex, when their players were the ones who teed it up for Hart in the first place.
He did have a great run at MSU. But non-RR/Hoke Michigan coaches were 4-2 against him and there's no changing that. And "Tuck" will get his too, with no pandemic-emptied stadium or miracle transfer senior RB this time around.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:26 AM ^
He also said they were "dead-a** last" in passing defense last year over the off-season. Seems like a very blunt evaluation
September 20th, 2022 at 7:33 AM ^
What do you want him to say? He said he performed bad at his job. Took responsibility. Nothing the matter with it. He seems like an ok person, but am always glad when MSU loses.
September 20th, 2022 at 8:35 AM ^
It's the right thing to do to take responsibility.
It's not the right thing to give fans soundbites/quotes that will be used against you. They face the 5 best B1G passing offenses in a row... If they are 2-6 or 3-5 at the end of October, this quote is going to come back to bite him. Especially in recruiting and image of where the program is going.
September 20th, 2022 at 9:11 AM ^
They have branded themselves as Last Chance U, where the coach is not only the face of the program, but really one of the few folks the fans can cheer for with the crazy turnover that will take place using the portal.
Because of this very strategy of “free agency” Tuck had to be the brand and pull of the program. Unfortunately for them, they are realizing that while you may unearth a Kenneth Walker in the portal, it is much harder to install a defensive scheme with 1 or 2 year players. These are not fully immersed NFL players, and for position groups such as O-line or defensive secondary, it’s very difficult to just plug and play.
K9 was a RB and they caught lightning in a bottle. I don’t think the free agency model will work turning over 30% - 40% of your team every year.
September 20th, 2022 at 4:45 PM ^
I think it's good that he didn't pull a Brian Kelly and blame his players. It's good for a coach to take responsibility, but I'm shocked that he said it the WAY that he did.
I completely understand "I didn't put the boys in a position to succeed" or something like that. But to call himself horseshit...
September 20th, 2022 at 5:02 PM ^
In fairness to Brian Kelly, he has indeed never lost a game, it is indeed his players who fail him in many instances. He does, however, win many games when they simply do what told.
Similarly, he never killed a kid at Notre Dame.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:34 AM ^
The score of that game was only as close as it was because Washington took their foot off the gas far to soon....
sparty's D couldn't stop a sneeze
September 20th, 2022 at 7:54 AM ^
Well if they need a new defensive coordinator, I hear good things about Erik Chinander. And I hear he’s just become available…
September 20th, 2022 at 8:56 AM ^
Just rewatched the Catholics vs. Convicts 30 for 30... and i fully agree. But, we should probably beat him first?
EDIT: WTF. this was for the comment below on tshirts.
September 20th, 2022 at 7:56 AM ^
I think we should put it on a tshirt for the game this year with MSU. Just a picture of Tuck and his quote will do.