Big 12 Will Play Fall Football
Big 12 will play football this fall. Revised schedule to be announced soon.
https://twitter.com/brucefeldmancfb/status/1293346125739470848?s=21
https://twitter.com/soonerscoop/status/1293339833868472321?s=21
August 12th, 2020 at 12:58 PM ^
But the players will be tested and monitored. Otherwise, they will be yelling screaming at house parties and in the bars during the weekends.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:02 AM ^
It isn’t just about the games. It is about the full work week the 100-150 people who play/support the football team who coexist in a daily Basis. When these players are put into the context of a highly interactive and relatively uncontrollable college community, do you really think something won’t happen? Baseball hasn’t worked outside a bubble, and this will be 10 times the risk/ likelihood of an outbreak.
August 12th, 2020 at 6:47 AM ^
I respectfully disagree. It appears the B1G isn’t looking at the science or data.
There have been 270 CDC certified deaths dying w/Covid-19 (not necessarily from) in the U.S. under 24 years old. There have been an estimated 900,000 confirmed cases and covid19-projections.com estimates 8x cases for actual infections (7 million)
Anyone know the math on 270 of 7 Million?
270 / 7,000,000 = 0.00003429 mortality rate
For college athletes, Covid is far less lethal than the seasonal flu.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:32 AM ^
This is very true, the issue though is how do you keep college football players isolated.
The concern is not really how many infected players would be life threatened by COVID, a very, very small number. The concern is, how do you limit infected players from spreading the illness on campus and ultimately back to people's homes who are much more likely to be life threaded by COVID - and make no mistake, there will be viral spread and outbreaks due to college football being played.
The only effective way we've seen a close contact sport be played is if you isolate the players and put them in a bubble. I personally have no problem if the players and coaches clearly wanted to play agreed to figure out a way to do that on campus, even despite the fact they are unpaid amateurs. However, they probably needed to start figuring out a way to do that back in, oh June?
To be clear that's not the players fault. It is a complete lack of coordination and leadership from the NCAA and it's member conferences and institutions. This absolutely could have been sorted out, the coalition of NCAA institutions and NCAA leadership itself sat on their hands for 3 months, probably figuring it would not impact their season. They were wrong, and left with the choice of either needlessly excelerating the pandemic, or cancelling fall sports which we're witnessing the conferences make their decisions on now.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:41 AM ^
"However, they probably needed to start figuring out a way to do that back in, oh June?"
Like maybe June 10th when our team started practicing and testing per Harbaugh's statement? Done and done.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:41 AM ^
User name definitely checks out here.
OT: For a long time I'd swear Sowell's columns were written by a (Sowell) bot. Predictable stem to stern. Not just him. I wondered the same thing about many "national" columnists (like Molly Ivins) and still do.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:04 AM ^
Any Molly Ivins column written in the past 13 years would indeed be written by someone other than her since she died in 2007.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:48 AM ^
Thomas Sowell,
So just to be clear, it's OK to sacrifice some players' lives so the rest of us can enjoy some college football games? How about the coaches, trainers, and other staff who work very closely with these players? Many of them are in a high-risk group, but from your statement, I gather it's OK to sacrifice some of them as well?
August 12th, 2020 at 8:35 AM ^
Just to be clear, you’re ok with making that decision for them? You are willing to tell them they can’t coach if they want to? You are telling them they can’t look at the data themselves and make a decision about their own life if they’re in a high risk group?
August 12th, 2020 at 10:31 AM ^
Me? No, I shouldn’t make that decision for them. I may have an opinion about it, but that surely doesn’t carry much weight. At this point, like this board, my thoughts are just one extra voice in a very crowded echo chamber.
As an alum, though, I believe the President of the University absolutely has the authority to make that decision for them. Since these are university-sponsored activities played by university students on university property utilizing university facilities, then - yes - I believe the President is exactly the right person to make this call. He (or she) is the person most accountable for the pandemic on campus, impacting all students, athletes, staff, the surrounding community of A2, etc. Should the coaches and players of all sports have the opportunity to share their opinion about playing? I personally think so, yes...but that opinion needs to be factored into the calculus of this decision and is not THE decision. It’s an input, possibly an important one too. But it’s definitely not the discretion of the coaches or players to make this call, and I believe the President of UM made the right decision at this time.
August 12th, 2020 at 10:39 AM ^
Someone has to make the decision because the potential impact is far greater than just the person making the decision. If you want to play russian roulette, go right ahead, the only impact is to you. The reason people in charge outlaw drunk driving or drag racing on public streets is because you aren't just endangering yourself, you are putting other people's lives at risk.
August 12th, 2020 at 12:08 PM ^
Comparing this to drunk driving is a massive stretch. People that drive drunk are incapable of being in charge of their faculties and making well thought out decisions. Also, if I know that Main St. is a hot spot for drag racing, I am capable of making a wise decision to avoid going near that area when racing is common. In other words, if I want to play football this year, and understand that someone else might be stupid and pass on the virus on to me and know all the possibilities that come with, yet I'm still wanting to play football, why can't I make that decision for myself? Why do others get to think they know more and make a decision for me by telling me that I can't?
August 12th, 2020 at 7:51 AM ^
If you're still comparing this to the seasonal flu you really are a dick fuck at this point or just trolling from RCMB. Please return to the Walmart from whence you came.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:58 AM ^
I’m just looking at the CDC data bro
August 12th, 2020 at 8:45 AM ^
Please look at the data. I know early on Covid looked a lot more serious than the flu, but data changes as we gather more. Now it’s more in-line with the flu. Not the same, but closer to the flu than it was thought to be before for this age group.
Those that refuse to look at that and budge from their previously decided thought are like the “hoaxers” who refused to look at the data at the beginning.
If we can’t see how things change and grow our understanding, then we will struggle to move ahead, whatever moving ahead looks like.. with more or less restrictions.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:18 AM ^
You're completely ignoring facts about the long-term Covid conditions that we're seeing - lung scaring, heart inflammation, circulatory issues, strokes... These are the medical reasons behind the cancellations, not death rates.
Like you said, "Those that refuse to look at that and budge from their previously decided thought are like the “hoaxers” who refused to look at the data at the beginning."
August 12th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
I agree we need to look at the whole picture. My thoughts have changed a lot from early March til now. I’m closely tracking these new findings and factoring them into my decisions.
August 12th, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
I'll bet you a million Mgopoints that the Flu and other viruses "can" have the same effects this novel coronavirus "can" have on the body. We would just have to look and assign blame to those viruses, rather than some other random factor.
We never have, because viruses are just part of life. Just as this soon to be no-longer-novel coronavirus will just be part of life in a few years.
August 12th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
Neither of us has the requisite funds for that bet! Nonetheless, I'm willing to take that bet because influenza has been studied in great detail for over 100 years! We know what it is, how it works, and the effects it causes - with fine-grained detail. We know for specific fact how it attacks the respiratory system.
Influenza attacks host cells through a sugar chain (sialic acid) on the surface of respiratory system cells, while C-19 attacks through ACE2 receptors - which are prolific throughout most body systems (specifically regulating blood pressure and fluid-salt balance).
So while flu can cause problems with other organs as the lungs shut down, C-19 appears to directly attack far more than 'just' the lungs.
August 12th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
Influenza is just one of many, many viruses, as has often been repeated lately. Our children get dozens of them from the day they start playing with other children to the day they leave school. In no way is it possible to assign blame or identify, nor has anyone ever bothered to try, which of these hundreds of viruses we catch in our childhood "can" cause some damage to our bodies. It's impossible to do so. This is logical.
In fact, I'll bet some of the effects assigned to the novel coronavirus were pre-existing, they just didn't know until after the virus, because no one had a reason to look.
August 12th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^
Yeah this is a great point. Someone recent posted information about the H1N1 virus also causing inflammatory cardiovascular issue.
We know that what’s happening with Covid is not unprecedented in these regards, but we don’t yet know know the frequency and magnitude of these effects.
I’m looking forward to more data and view points on these factors.
August 12th, 2020 at 11:52 AM ^
I keep seeing these comments regarding people ignoring the long-term effects of covid, but as a nurse for a 600 bed medical facility I believe that the jury is still out as far as long-term effects. The virus hasn't been around long enough for us to know what the true long-term effects are but the current data does not support what you're saying. Not only have I seen people who have been released from our Hospital and recovered do just fine and not show any lingering effects, I have 3 family members who have had it and follow up care reveals no subsequent issues...
August 12th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
The huge thing that you're missing here, is how virulent a virus is. Covid-19 is far, far more contagious than the flu. So even if by a percentage basis, it's morbidity is about the same (I don't believe this to be true, but haven't checked in a while), that does not in any way mean they are equally dangerous. This should be readily evident by the growing mountain of dead bodies here in the US. But... somehow it isn't.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
COVID sucks. I want to see college football. Sowell's argument makes sense but it ignores a number of factors.
1. We don't know all of the effects of COVID. It sounds like it could cause heart issues soon after, but we don't know yet.
2. The point of either cancelling stuff or socially distancing is to stop the spread of the disease from those who are more likely to die. The goal is to keep the deaths in the low hundreds of thousands rather than in the millions. (No one has projected millions, but if left unchecked there is no reason it couldn't be.) This is the whole Nietzsche vs. Christ deal; people have a hard time doing things that aren't directly in their own self interest. The concept of epidemiology and the greater good is beyond many people.
3. The transmission rate can be negligible or low until it isn't. Florida and Georgia were doing great until some people caught COVID and then it spread like wild fire. I actually would have loved to see the B1G and all of college football pass something where they can have games so long as the community transmission rate was below X%. You'd have Jim Harbaugh, Nick Saban and other prominent coaches doing commercials telling people that they need to wear masks and socially distance if they want to have football. Which do you love more, football or being a contrarian prick?
4. The B1G would be having a football season if the people in the Big 8 and SEC took this stuff more seriously. The highest transmission rates are in the south and southwest. That said, when fall comes around I'm guessing we'll see huge spikes in the North since we failed to control this thing.
August 12th, 2020 at 12:02 PM ^
We ignore the long term (proven) effects of playing football.
Why not ignore the long term (theoretical) effects of the Wuhan Virus
August 12th, 2020 at 5:47 AM ^
Maybe.
August 12th, 2020 at 6:00 AM ^
The B1G released a schedule too. Doesn't really mean much until there are actually games being played.
August 12th, 2020 at 6:19 AM ^
I don’t understand why this decision had to come out now. Why not move the start of the season back a couple of weeks and simply say we want to see what is going to happen in the next few weeks.
August 12th, 2020 at 6:26 AM ^
They have been doing that for five months. What could possibly change in three weeks? They are not going to have a vaccine. They are not going to have enough of a timeline to determine long-term complications of the virus.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:30 AM ^
20-50k students returning to campus. See how that impacts community spread? The risk is still there but if the positivity rate remains negligible among the players, you can at least make a coherent argument. Or if 1/2 of the Rutger team decides to go to a party and test positive, you have a better argument (To the general public) to cancel
August 12th, 2020 at 7:54 AM ^
Going to be months until daily 15 minute tests are available and widespread enough to play at a conference level. Also, we've seen enough outbreaks to know that playing and practicing for sports is a great way to spread the virus. Sure, let's wait to see if frat parties spread it even more. Can't wait to find out what's the answer to that question!
August 12th, 2020 at 6:29 AM ^
For now...
August 12th, 2020 at 6:44 AM ^
Niiice!
You can catch this stuff anywhere, life has to go on at this point.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:52 AM ^
Unless you and everyone you infected dies, yeah, pretty much.
August 12th, 2020 at 6:56 AM ^
We honestly won’t know if it is a good decision until after the season ends. Hopefully, there will be data for the number of COVID cases for football players at schools where football was cancelled and were on campus vs football players were they had a season and they were on campus.
I think college athletes are more likely to get it in regular college experiences than they would playing sports.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:08 AM ^
This isn't about catching or spreading the virus now, it's about mitigating liability down the road. The latest info coming out about heart disease associated with Covid and future lawsuits is pushing this decision.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
if true, and I believe this is likely, the conference should have said that the reason for the change was the data on impact to the heart.
From an outsider perspective, that seems to be the driver of the announcement. Be transparent.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:56 AM ^
And even more likely to get it working out together and practicing together in indoor spaces then a football game.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:35 AM ^
Big 12 will *keep trying* to play fall football. There, that’s the correct title.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:39 AM ^
Good for them. Good luck to all. I'll be watching.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:40 AM ^
Put yourself into the shoes of a highly recruited high school senior. Would you choose to go to a Big Ten or PAC12 school or to the a SEC or big 12?
August 12th, 2020 at 7:51 AM ^
Just wait until the others cancel. Matter of time..
August 12th, 2020 at 7:58 AM ^
Doesn't matter because my parents would be signing off on my school just like when i was 18 years old and decided to go to MIchigan.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
It all depends on whether games are actually played and then what the health and safety of the players looks like throughout the season. I think that it could swing SOME recruiting decisions. If it turns into a complete shit show and, God forbid, a player is hospitalized, or worse, dies, and the whole thing is shut down after a couple games, then you could see some recruits changing their minds.
Suddenly you could have players decide that they’d rather go to Michigan or OSU instead of a Florida or Bama.
On the flip side, if it is successful with minimal issues and delays/cancellations, then you could see the opposite. The B1G could be painted as fear mongers or whatever other term you wish to ascribe it and fade into virtual irrelevance as recruits turn down offers there.
I don’t think they’ll actually end up playing any games. At most they might get the first game in. I think the lawyers will talk sense into them and make them realize the liability risk they’re taking and scrap the season.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^
I don't see how the B1G looks anything but bad to a recruit, regardless if the other three conferences can play or not. B1G coaches are pissed. Players are pissed. Fans are pissed. None of them had any say in whether or not football would be played, yet they're the individuals knee deep in it and affected the most by the decision.
The B1G just sent a loud message to every recruit... we'll quit before even trying. I don't see how the ACC, SEC, or B12 don't use that to negatively recruit against B1G teams... and they're right. Recruits want to play football, I doubt a league's desire to limit financial liability down the road is going to go over well with any of them.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:26 AM ^
If they play, and that's a big "IF" do you think they will be able to take all the college eligible football players in the country? People need to stop with this line of thinking. SEC, Oklahoma, and Texas get the players they want already.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:54 AM ^
This makes sense when the politics of their area is considered. Even if they don't end up playing (which would be too bad ... live football would beat replays of prior years) it might be important to gesture to the base (much like Mike Pence did by not wearing masks on factory visits).
August 12th, 2020 at 7:55 AM ^
It would look really bad for the Big Ten if all these conferences played football except the Big Ten and were able to successfully do so safely.
Will they wait for us to complete our games in the Spring to have the National Championship? ?
August 12th, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^
If you think the National Championship is relevant to Big10 or PAC-12 teams, (except for maybe OSU, and fuck them) you haven’t been paying attention. Maybe the winners of the Big10 and PAC-12 spring season could meet in the Rose Bowl for a little competition.
August 12th, 2020 at 7:57 AM ^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vui-S45ZRe8
FYI, Dr. Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner under Trump but considered “mainstream” in terms of advocating for total containment, just said it was possible to create a bubble within a football program and within a school (e.g. Notre Dame’s start).
Time will tell who is right on this. But it’s clear there is no one clear answer.
I tend to think the BIG and PAC made the right moves because it’s really hard to imagine that everything will be perfect in all programs, especially when you consider that TX and FL are hotspots.