Former Michigan players having trouble clearing waivers?
Why are Aubrey Solomon, Oliver Martin, and James Hudson all unable to clear waivers? Seems like tons of players have been able to make moves and get on teams without much trouble but all players transferring out of Michigan seem to get stuck in eligibility purgatory.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^
You have to have ‘valid mitigating circumstances’ to clear.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:13 PM ^
We know that's what the NCAA says but that's not what happens in reality.
Edit: Seriously, we've all seen a bunch of players move to and from programs with seemingly no valid mitigating circumstances. What's the difference here?
August 12th, 2019 at 4:44 PM ^
The OSU quarterback is the perfect example of an unjustified waiver.
August 12th, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
One word,”Tiebreaker!”
August 12th, 2019 at 3:16 PM ^
Has the NCAA announced they have denied their waivers?
EDIT: Oops sorry, meant to reply to the OP.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:15 PM ^
Because NCAA
August 12th, 2019 at 2:54 PM ^
While nobody wants to hear it, the reason is primarily because UM is not supporting the transfers. As an example with Hudson, UM did not assist his transfer to Cincinnati. LB Smith transferred from OSU to Cincy for the same mental health reason. OSU filed in support of the waiver and the NCAA granted it. Patterson is another example, he had to fight and fight to get a waiver because Ole Miss didn’t support his waiver. The school the player is departing supporting or fighting the waiver is the single biggest determining factor on whether the player gets a waiver or has to sit a year. The second biggest factor is having an attorney. I’m not making judgements on if schools should support or fight the waivers, I’m just giving the direct answer to your question.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:09 PM ^
You say the school supporting or fighting the waiver is the biggest factor in determining whether someone gets the waiver. Do you have evidence Michigan is fighting those requested waivers? I certainly would have expected to hear about it if they were, since these issues often play out via media pressure on institutions, and there has not been anything to suggest they are fighting the waivers. I suspect your point about having an attorney who knows how to work the system may explain the outcomes.
August 12th, 2019 at 4:47 PM ^
Hudson’s Mother was pretty clear about not getting assistance from UM. I’m going to take her word for it. Are you of the belief the UM supported the waiver request?? Lol
August 12th, 2019 at 5:39 PM ^
There's certainly a difference between Michigan "not giving assistance" and Michigan fighting it. Also, some schools will be very supportive of players transferring because they wanted them to transfer in the first place. Maybe OSU was happy to have his scholarship open up because they knew he wouldn't contribute to their team. That's not the case with James Hudson who had a lot of promise and if Michigan felt he was bailing on them, they would be less likely to help him leave the team. Still, that's very different than fighting it like Ole Miss did.
August 12th, 2019 at 7:51 PM ^
Again, I’m not passing judgement on if this waiver or that waiver should have been supported. The fact remains when schools have been supportive and in agreement, those players are much more likely to get a waiver. And yes, schools do have a choice in how cooperative they choose to be during the process.
August 12th, 2019 at 8:40 PM ^
I think your argument is well-reasoned and, although the n is low it is trending to support this (or other) arguments for UM being a factor.
August 12th, 2019 at 9:09 PM ^
You are confusing the truth of the story. Hudson's claim for justifying his transfer was he was suffering depression, however he never notified Michigan about it. When the NCAA asked Michigan how they handled it they claimed they weren't notified. The NCAA is denying the claim because there is no evidence he addressed the issue prior to the transfer.
His mother saying that Michigan didn't help suggests she want's them to verify a story that they were unaware of.
That's why Jim said the players should be allowed to transfer once without having to provide a reason. He didn't think it was fair that kids should have to announce personal details of their lives or potentially make up reasons to leave.
August 13th, 2019 at 6:25 AM ^
You are confusing everything about my post. It has nothing to do with whether Hudson’s claim is legit or not legit. The point is UM didn’t support the waiver and his waiver was denied. Once again the point is NOT an argument that UM should have supported the waiver
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that his mother’s story was correct, they went to see Harbaugh and told them Hudson was depressed. UM could support the waiver citing that or not support the waiver and rightfully say Hudson never sought treatment.
Details are not always fully released but name the last successful waiver where the person seeking the waiver said they had the support of the university they were transferring from.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
Hudson himself admits that he never mentioned his depression to anyone at UM. So when UM was asked for evidence to support Hudson's waiver application, what was UM supposed to produce? UM is not not supporting Hudson's application. UM simply has nothing to offer in support.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:18 PM ^
Do you have any supporting detail on any of your claims? Do you know that M responded to the NCAA saying that they didn't support all 3 of their waivers? How do you know? The only public comment I've seen was with Harbaugh at media days vaguely referencing Hudson, but also stating he wants him to be eligible immediately.
How do you know that the schoold fighting or supporting is the "single biggest determing factor on whether the player gets a waiver"? What evidence do you have that lawyer is the 2nd factor? This whole post just feels like empty nonsense.
The reality is that most players don't get a waiver. High profile cases have been getting waivers and that's what you see but the percentages are still low. A few hundred kids transfer and only a handful get waivers. I don't have exact numbers on this but there were over 300 names in the transfer portal earlier this year. The 3 players from Michigan just didn't have valid reasons to transfer. Hudson never mentioned his issues at M. Why would that be a valid reason for a waiver. Martin was just homesick (so I understand it) and I don't think he requested a waiver. I haven't heard a reason why Soloman should be eligible but to my knowledge he just didn't like Michigan, ever.
I don't know the full back story on Blue Smith (OSU LB) but articles i just read make it sound like he was talking with the OSU staff during his freshman year and it was a known problem. I don't know why Cincy was deteremined to be better for his mental health than OSU (maybe because Fickell is at Cincy - that's certainly part of why OSU was supportive), but it sounds like he was actively trying to seek help. Hudson was not. Not sure if this is why his waiver was denied, but it makes the circumstances significantly different and difficult to compare apples to apples.
Long story short, none of the 3 former M players had a compelling case to receive a waiver. That's why they didn't get it. Any more is a guess (unless someone has info I can't find online).
August 12th, 2019 at 3:24 PM ^
Harbaugh was pretty clear he sees this as an NCAA decision and said Michigan has no say in the matter.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^
What do you expect Michigan do to? Lie? How can Michigan assist Hudson's transfer to Cincinnati if he has no record or history of treatment for mental illness at Michigan? It's up to the compliance office at Michigan to provide the supporting evidence. Patterson had to fight for his waiver because Ole Miss would not admit to the NCAA violations in the waiver (i.e. lied) so it almost the opposite of Hudson's situation.
And there are big differences between the Hudson and Smith situations at Michigan and OSU respectively. Hudson had no documented diagnosis or treatment at Michigan; did Smith have that? Hudson was a player who was not released from scholarship, Michigan actively wanted to stay in school, and proceeded to quit the team and transfer in the middle of the season. I do not think Hudson did himself any favors with the coaching staff and administration with how he handled his departure. All evidence points to that not being the case for Smith at OSU as he was a player who had not cracked the depth chart, transferred during the offseason, and OSU would benefit by having him transfer. I have a feeling OSU would or could not have been as helpful if it were a player on the two-deep trying to transfer and quitting the team in the middle of the season. See Matthew Baldwin.
The biggest factor in receiving a waiver is actually having a documented reason for the waiver. There is no school "support" for the waiver. The school can only acknowledge the reason for the waiver and provide supporting evidence.
August 12th, 2019 at 5:09 PM ^
"The school the player is departing supporting or fighting the waiver is the single biggest determining factor on whether the player gets a waiver or has to sit a year."
This has never made any sense to me. In particular with the Shae Patterson example. Why in the world should the opinion of a school that was alleged to have lied up and down have any bearing on the NCAA's decision?
The NCAA should rule on the merits of waiver request and not what the departed school wants.
August 12th, 2019 at 7:57 PM ^
The transfer portal didn't exist when Shea Patterson came to Michigan. The portal went into effect after. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
August 12th, 2019 at 11:14 PM ^
You are correct but the portal is just a tool to facilitate transfers. It was a sign the NCAA wanted to modernize the process and make it easier but somehow seemed surprised when they had more people wanting to transfer and how now re-clarified what constitutes a hardship that may get an expedition for the players.
August 14th, 2019 at 3:37 AM ^
The Fickle transfer.
CMHCFB, given all the fact it seems Fickle has a new transfer recruitment strategy. He tells players to claim “depression” even though there is no history of depression and that they can start right away with no one else on the depth chart. Then he calls the former school to get them to “support” the claim. His friends at OSU “supported” it but Michigan correctly reported that no record of depression existed. The NCAA in this case, with no prior record of the claim, has to deny the transfer otherwise every kid would try and pull a “Fickle” transfer.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:16 PM ^
"The Portal" can be an unforgiving place.....
August 12th, 2019 at 4:21 PM ^
Just ask Tathan!
August 12th, 2019 at 2:16 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh
/s
August 12th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
Because they didnt transfer to OSU.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:36 PM ^
You might be onto something here.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:21 PM ^
Because per the NCAA you are expected to sit a year. The exceptions were supposed to be just that. Also possibly because they didn’t lawyer up? They should hire Tom Maaaarrrrrsssohthatsright never mind.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:54 PM ^
Oliver Martin's family did lawyer up. I don't think not liking the cold weather was a valid excuse for Solomon, and Hudson probably handle things wrong when first transferred.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:01 PM ^
Hudson probably handle things wrong when first transferred.
I'm not sure why you (we) think that, but it's hard for me not to agree. He, and his family, didn't come off as particularly savvy.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:11 PM ^
I think Hudson's biggest problem was that him and some family members made all kinds of noise when he left the program, and made it well known that he was pissed about not playing. Seems like it gives the NCAA an easy out regardless of what your reasoning is when you file for immediate eligibility.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:18 PM ^
This most definitely seems like the kind of situation where you want to be silent and respectful in hopes of getting some back channel help. Instead, they stepped on a bunch of toes on the way out and did some pretty nasty shit talking.
It's not surprising if Michigan doesn't bend over backwards to help him out.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:29 PM ^
I think we think that based on everything that has come out since Harbaugh made the statement about mental health at B1G media day, Greg Harden being front and center about everything the University provides to its athletes. Reading between the lines I think the issue is, if it was so easy to come out and make a claim that this was the reason you transferred, yet you never seeked out help for the issue at your former University makes people wonder.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Has there been a decision on Solomon's appeal yet? Last I could find was an 08/01 article saying he was still waiting to hear back.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:56 PM ^
Solomon's reason for an appeal was not actually cold weather, was it?
If that's true then he had no case at all.
August 12th, 2019 at 2:22 PM ^
Not concerned
August 12th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
ABP?
August 12th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^
Could it possibly be because Michigan is not in trouble with the NCAA that would cause the NCAA to offer waivers to any player wanting to transfer out? Those "tons" of other players come from programs that are currently, or were in the NCAA's doghouse.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Georgia and OSU are in the NCAA's doghouse? Those are the schools that Fields and Martell transferred from.
I believe the NCAA is so arbitrary that it is impossible to predict who will get a waiver and who won't. That said, you have to at least give them something: "the coaches have stopped talking to me" or "there is a racist on campus." In contrast, Michigan wishes Martin and Solomon were still on the team and Hudson's claim seems to be a complete fabrication and
August 12th, 2019 at 3:12 PM ^
and?
August 12th, 2019 at 7:32 PM ^
Damn auto-correct. That was a period when I typed it.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:20 PM ^
Not necessarily NCAA doghouse, but Michigan has been stable and not had the incidents at OSU and Georgia. Urban Meyer got fired or resigned unexpectedly. Any athlete transferring from OSU would probably get a waiver from that. Fields had the racial epithet incident.
August 12th, 2019 at 3:25 PM ^
Hudson's claim is a complete fabrication? Are you sure?
August 12th, 2019 at 7:45 PM ^
He wrote “seems to be” not “I’m certain it was”
August 12th, 2019 at 7:50 PM ^
Come on. I've read enough of your posts over the years to know that you know the meaning of "seems to be."
August 12th, 2019 at 3:19 PM ^
That doesn't really make sense given that other players are transferring both to and from schools I'm guessing you'd consider "in the doghouse." Also, the notion that the NCAA is doing things to try to marginally punish programs beyond sanctions seems really ridiculous.
August 14th, 2019 at 3:47 PM ^
So you are saying that the kids should be punished also along with the program? That's what waivers are for so an athlete isn't punished by having to give up a year of eligibility because of the mistakes that were made by the program he or she originally committed to. What waivers are not for is so programs can poach players and have them play immediately by throwing their previous team under the bus with false statements. That's why Michigan's compliance office disputed his claims, and why the NCAA agreed, because they were baseless.