In support of Brady Hoke - three years and a positive direction
With the tide of negativity right now about Hoke and the program, hopefully we can allow a thread with the alternative point of view - the first three years of the Hoke era have been a success.
Hoke inherited a program that was fractured. Many alums, former coaches and players, boosters, high school coaches, and others felt alienated. In short order, Hoke restored many of these relationships.
The team was a wreck. In the last three games of the 2010 season, we had been embarrassed by Wisconsin, OSU, and Mississippi State by a combined score of 137-49.
Immediately, the program on the field was transformed into something we could take pride in by Hoke. The team went 11-2 with a win over OSU and a BCS bowl victory. We were praising the very coaches many demonize now. Hoke's first full recruiting class was top drawer - a trend that has continued throughout his tenure.
But Hoke's initial success depended largely on the recruits of Lloyd Carr still populating the upper classes. As those players graduated and the remnants of Rich Rod's classes moved into the upper ranks, there was a growing void of talent at the top - exactly where the strength of the team should be in terms of quality and quantity. In this regard, we bottomed out in the 2013 season. The very upper classes were from the RichRod era. We can argue the merits of RichRod as a coach, but what's left in those classes clearly wasn't what we need to compete at the highest levels. In fact, given the void in the upper half of our roster, being competitive and bowl eligible is an accomplishment of sorts.
Depth takes time to build, and the elite classes we continue to bring in will provide that. The trend now will be upward, as the depleted classes graduate and are back filled with new players of the quality and type we need. Replacing the staff now would likely derail the direction toward the type of team to which we are accustomed.
December 30th, 2013 at 11:09 AM ^
Usually can improve on their own. Did Gallon really "improve" or did he just gain more experience to go with hisw natural talents? And was his improvement really from any coaching he received?
Teams need to improve as a unit--because again, individual players will usually improve just with age and expereince--expecially if they're already pretty good.
The TEAM collapsed this season. Manufactured losses at PSU and Iowa, close calls with very bad teams they should have obliterated, and getting punked by MSU. The heroic effort against Ohio State was nice to watch, but when your high points are beating ND, a subpar team, at home, and a moral victory of sorts (OSU)--well, that ain't too great.
December 30th, 2013 at 8:12 AM ^
Look at DG's 2012 and 2013 stats. He did improve, at least statistically, despite being consistently beat up throughout November. He also cut down on the turnovers in the second half of the season.
The biggest knock and hole in development was on the OL and next year is when we should start to see that progress. The RBs struggled but part of that was vision/hitting holes and the other part was the complete lack of push by the OL.
December 30th, 2013 at 8:56 AM ^
Clubbing baby seals makes anyone's stats better. Spending a whole year at Qb vs less than half a year makes anyone's stats better. Not having a running game and being forced to throw inflates stats.
There's plenty more evidence that Hoke isn't the coach to get it done. Yes, he's healed many of the fractures around the program. Now everyone has rallied around a mediocre at best program.
We've already become Notre Dame and have been returning to glory since 1997!
December 29th, 2013 at 9:52 PM ^
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^
I was in school during that 6-6 season and the 10-1-1 wonderful 1985 season.
Bo had won before - the question was "was he getting washed up?" - same kind of heat that Mack Brown took at Texas.
Perles was hot shit at MSU after winning at UM in '84.
Agree with you though, a BLOG and Bo would have been "retired" by many. But was hard to win with Chris Zurbrugg at QB. In Bo's Lasting Lessons book, he talks about that 6-6 season almost fondly, because of how we turned it around in '85.
Hoke needs to pull off at least one big road win next year and not have a home loss crapper.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:10 PM ^
The team needs to play better, consistently throughout the season. The fans don't just show up at the end of games to see who won; they sit through the entire game, watching the mistakes and the lack of execution, energy and drive. It's tough to stomach the losses but it's even harder to watch this team play poorly week in and week out, even with a win (see Akron and Connecticut).
December 30th, 2013 at 11:13 AM ^
Until he went 6-6, Bo had a little thing called "Cache" due to his winning ways. He spent the 70's winning ten games just about every year and blowing bowl games. He was solid against rivals and was thrashing the teams he should have (outside the usual one game meltdown).
Hoax shouldn't be compared to anyone, and should only be held accountable for what HIS teams have and ARE doing at Michigan.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:18 PM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 1:49 PM ^
I stated a relationship between Bo's season and a blog meltdown - if there was a blog back then. I know Bo, and Brady is no Bo.
December 30th, 2013 at 3:42 PM ^
Exept that year, there was a direct cause and effect. I don't think the hypothetical blog would be melting down over a .500 year when we lost our starting QB halfway through the season.
And it's easy to just use BYU as a name loss and say "Oh we lost to BYU, how horrible!".
Until you look up BYU's 1984 season, and see that they were the goddamned National Champions that year.
January 1st, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
And their only "signature" victory was against a six win Michigan team. BYU was the mnc that year, but they never played any decent teams. They were not a great team and likely would have been pantsed by a dozen teams that played more difficult schedules but had one or more losses.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
Do you actually know anything about the 1984 season aside from reading the final record on a Wikipedia table?
December 30th, 2013 at 1:55 PM ^
I also know that Al Gore had not yet invented the Internet for public use. Which means there was no blog at the time of Bo's 1984 team. My point was the potential meltdown of this site if it was in existance. Do you see how people half read things and jump to conclusions based on their "ability" to be right all the time?
December 30th, 2013 at 8:21 AM ^
devastated due to injury and they still nearly beat the "national champs" in the Holiday Bowl. Robbie Bosco (I think) threw about 60 times without a single holding call. I don't bitch about officiating much, but that one still sticks in the ol' craw.
December 30th, 2013 at 10:42 AM ^
For some reason I was thinking it was Jim McMahon in that game, but I looked it up: you're right, it was Bosco. The lack of holding calls also set Bo off, so you were in good company. Every now and then somebody brings up BYU's national championship, then there's the statement, "yeah but they didn't play anybody" which invariably prompts a response, "well, they did beat Michigan." Almost nobody (except Michigan fans) remember that that was the worst Bo coached team ever (at least going by record). finishing 6-6.
December 30th, 2013 at 11:37 AM ^
Harbaugh went down. at least 2 other QBs went down. played (and almost beat BYU) with our #4 QB (who would that even be on this team?) . other key injuries that year. Nobody was down on Bo, thought he was a wizard for nearly beating unbeaten BYU, who had a famous rally to win. Robbie Bosco on a sprained ankle, anyone?
December 29th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
2014 is a joke of a schedule besides our rivals. It is a very top heavy schedule. Hoke must go 10-2 or he will be canned but we must give him this chance.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
"Hoke inherited a program that was fractured."
Unfortunately If we continue on our downward spiral next year and he ends up getting let go he will probably leave one fractured as well.
December 30th, 2013 at 6:25 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 7:31 AM ^
Thank you for this. The desperate need to blame all of the current staff's shortcomings on Rich Rod, and to credit give RR's players no credit for the success of the 2011 season (the OP claims that success was all based on Lloyd Carr's 5th year seniors) is laughably stupid. Maybe the OP is Dave Brandon.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:53 PM ^
Beilein was in his 4th season at Michigan and had one NCAA trip. We were 1-6 in the B1G and it looked like he was toast, if not that season, after the next. We had lost 6 games in a row.
I was in Toronto on business that week. Earlier in the week, was in the hotel bar and a MSU fan was there. After being nice for a few minutes, he turned into a real Spartan dick, bragging about how many years since UM beat MSU in any meaningful sport, blah blah blah. "Sucks to be a Michigan fan" I could see he wanted a fight and wisely got out of there when he went to the john (not sure how many of you have run into a drunk Spartan ASS lately, but they are among the worst pinheads known to mankind).
Thursday of that week, we pulled a stunner at East Lansing, 61-57, and went 8-3 rest of season. Made tourney and lost nailbiter to Duke. Next season, won share of B1G title. Last year Final Four.
Hoke's big chance is October 25th at MSU next year, after a BYE week. If he wants to turn the fanbase around, that needs to be his 1st ROAD signature win.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:56 PM ^
Yea, because showing up at Spartan Stadium after a BYE week worked so well this year.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^
The BYE week and the three weeks of practice before the bowl game were a waste.
Just saying IF Hoke is ever going to get a signature ROAD win, October 25th at MSU would shut up a lot of Spartans and make me think he's capable of fixing things.
December 30th, 2013 at 4:47 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 9:02 AM ^
If going 11-2 in 2011 after going 7-6 in 2010 and getting shelled by Mississippi State is a turnaround, then what is going 7-6 in 2013 and getting shelled by Kansas State after going 11-2 in 2011?
December 30th, 2013 at 6:06 PM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 11:50 AM ^
from your post:
"Brady Hoke inherited a program in shambles, one that was a virtual wasteland."
are you, like, 9 years old?
without going on a long rant, let me remind you that Brady Hoke inherited a sophomore who has just been named Big 10 Offensive Player of the Year. I understand that 3 years of watching Hoke abdicate offensive decision-making to a journeyman OC........with mind numbingly bad results....effects your brain, but Hoke inherited plenty.......and far more than RR ever had on campus.
He is just not much of a coach. Other than ND (who RR also beat), what are Hoke's big wins? Against a 6-6 OSU team? the lucky lucky win againt VT?
Three years in, who are the big contributions of his recruits? I see impact freshman and sophs all over.
December 30th, 2013 at 6:08 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:16 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:25 PM ^
No, the bye was before Minnesota, which ended up being perhaps our best performance of the season.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^
There is no comparison between the rebuilding process Beilein needed to do with Michigan Basketball, and the kind of program and tradition and infrastructure Brady Hoke inherited with Michigan Football, even after the RR misadventures. It's apples and oranges.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:13 PM ^
The scale was/is vastly different. You're talking about a 1/5 ratio between the rosters, that's a lot. Yes the hoops team was a total shambled mess, but football was pretty bad too.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 12:12 AM ^
Spot on. That would be a way to change the momentum back. I remember that game so well. Those Sparty Brahs with the numbers painted on their chests and then seeing their jaws drop after the game. I was so amped. Anuerisms of Leadership are the best.
Who is our Zach Novak on this team?
I doubt any of us know but for us to have success next year the team had better find those Gritty McGrittersons.
December 30th, 2013 at 11:16 AM ^
What does being in Toronto on business that week have to do with your post?
December 29th, 2013 at 9:55 PM ^
I wanted RR gone as much as the next guy but can we please stop bashing him? At some point, it's Hoke's team. Devin Gardener, who was a RR recruit, is now Hoke's player. As were Denard, Jeremy Gallon, Vincent Smith, Taylor Lewan, Fitz Toussaint, Jordan Kovacs, Jake Ryan, etc. You know, all those guys who've been instrumental in that record that Hoke hangs his hat on.
Time to stop pulling in the talent card. Other teams do more with less. If Hoke didn't want to coach "spread" guys and phone it in for 3-4 years until "his" guys were in key positions, he shouldn't have taken the job. If the rumors of a fracture in the locker room are true, it's this attitude about "RR guys" that is behind it.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:00 PM ^
There are certainly some quality players of the RichRod era. Just not enough. And while I love Devin and Fitz, for example, I believe we have brought in the next generation of players to eventually play those roles more effectively (Morris, Green, Smith)
December 29th, 2013 at 10:20 PM ^
J.T. Turner, Isiah Bell, Vlad Emelien, Tate Forcier, Brandin Hawthorne, Anthony LoLota, J.T. Turner, Cullen Christian, Kenny Wilkins, Stephen Hopkins, Carvin Johnson, Christian Pace, Davion Rogers, Jerald Robinson, Austin White, D.J. Williamson, Ray Vinopal and Conelius Jones concur.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:02 AM ^
it is hard to ignore the amount of players that washed out from the roster. I do think Hoke was much needed to stablize the roster. He has raised the floor. I just worry about how high the ceiling can be. Really depends on the coordinators.
Still would have liked to have seen RR get a 4th year though and think Hoke absolutely deserves a 4th as year. A 5th season depends on the 4th though.
December 30th, 2013 at 8:55 AM ^
That's a great summation of the situation.
December 30th, 2013 at 12:02 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 9:49 AM ^
/s
December 30th, 2013 at 1:14 PM ^
Don't forget Je'Ron Stokes
December 29th, 2013 at 9:54 PM ^
MR BRANDON IS THAT YOU
December 29th, 2013 at 11:16 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 9:55 PM ^
Recruting classes aren't meant to come in right away to turn around programs. Of course there are a few good ones that help the program, the majority of the class should come to play as upper class men where they provide playmaker s and depth. It would be a travesty to can hoke before the 2015 season. We need to have patience. We're quick to ask for coaching changes but have we all forgotten how end of the last decade turned out?
2015 is hokes crucial year. Not 2014.