Brady Hoke: Whole staff will return next year
December 2nd, 2013 at 7:34 PM ^
assuming it holds up. In the echo chamber of the internet, spearheaded by MGoBlog, a handful of people create the perception that the program is headed in the wrong direction, when, in fact, the majority of the fan base get the fact that this is the first year in a different offensive philosophy. While I ASSumed that the adults in the program (Hoke, Brandon, and others) understood that this transition would be difficult, lately I had become concerned that the impatience of the most vocal among us would sway good reason. Happily that has not happened.
Now before you all lose your minds, go watch the post game presser with Ryan and Lewan. Listen to what they have to say. Listen closely. Hoke is has laid the foundation and continues to build something very special in this program. I'd have liked a 10+ win season this year, but that didn't happen. Not because of failed coaching, or arrogance, or ignorance, but because building an offense on the backs of underclassmen is hard.
I've been following Michigan football since the early 60s, and times have been worse. I understand what is required to create dominance. I see Hoke building the foundations for dominance. I remember what dominance feels like. I remember how sweet that tastes. I have the patience to wait for it.
December 2nd, 2013 at 7:52 PM ^
Bravo!
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:13 PM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 2:08 AM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 9:32 AM ^
1. You pick out a few anecdotes where general fan sentiment has been proven wrong in hindsight. Congrats.
2. Your post has nothing to do with my point. Dude is claiming that a vocal minority of fans wants coaching changes, in an effort to marginalized those of us who want to see changes. Classic political tactic. The only evidence that I've seen (random sample or not) would suggest that a healthy majority are in favor of changes.
December 2nd, 2013 at 7:49 PM ^
The season is not over...Brady will not fire anyone before the bowl game, that is just stupid. So of course he has to say what he said.
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:03 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:33 PM ^
I didn't have high expectations of the youthful interior O-line (or of the whole season), either.
Why the pessimism? Michigan could go 12-0 next year and, having witnessed the atrocious offensive strategy in numerous losses, I'd STILL have horrible visions of Al running into stacked lines (after having the nerve to direct the defense through his placement of Lewan et al.). I've never seen anything like it, and I can clearly remember the Mike DeBord fullback shuffles (the "WE'RE GOING TO RUN *HERE*" ones).
To put it another way, if it happened this year, it could happen again.
Sten, this isn't necessarily directed at you, but I find the people who blame this year's troubles entirely on the O-line youth to be hilariously idiotic.
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:49 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^
If only there was a person or group of people that could teach them to block better or put them in the best position to succeed. If we figure this part out, I think we may be on to something.
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:35 PM ^
The players don't decide if they execute or not. The coaches don't decide if they want to put the team in a position to execute or not. Your logic and your attempt at understanding the counter-argument is messed up.
The players aren't deciding to not do their job effectively, they are trying, but it's very difficult. It's more difficult when you're young and inexperienced. When you're young and inexperienced, but have potential, you tend to show flashes of what you can be mixed in with inconsistency. When you put three of those side by side, and flank that unit with inexperience at TE, then you get inconsistency within the offensive unit.
Funk is coaching them, whether you like to admit it or not. Some of the blame can probably be put on Funk, but it's very unlikely it is all the blame. Some of the blame can be put on Borges, it's unlikely it is all the blame. Some have the opinion that the amount of blame to put on those two doesn't warrent them being relieved of their jobs. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. But the fact that you are trying to twist an argument like it is, and be snarky in your response, shows the issue with your logic. You can have your opinion, trying to be snarky and coming off as ignorant doesn't help your case though.
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:06 PM ^
Then after they struggled through that season, had spring practice, and a fall camp as more experienced players, they came back and played signifantly better.
I think you could have used a better example to prove your point, because you chose an example that supports both arguments pretty much equally.
Also, Sten didn't call anyone idiotic. While I haven't seen anyone state that youth was the only problem, the person that called people idiotic was essentially implying that people that believe youth is the most significant issue are idiotic, and Sten replied to that in kind.
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^
FWIW:
Auburn's last 5 recruiting classes:
2008 - 19 (RS SR);
2009 - 4 (SR, RS JR)
2010- 7 (JR, RS SO)
2011 - 10 ( SO, RS FR)
2012 - 8 (FR)
Michigan's last 5 recruiting classes:
2008 - 8 (RS SR);
2009 - 20 (SR, RS JR)
2010- 21 (JR, RS SO)
2011 - 7 ( SO, RS FR)
2012 - 5 (FR)
But if that's the way you want to look at it, alright. If that's the only way you can believe that youth is a real factor, then by all means, go ahead.
December 3rd, 2013 at 9:27 AM ^
Go Blue
December 3rd, 2013 at 9:53 AM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 11:31 AM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 12:17 PM ^
What I am sick of is people cherry-picking one team and saying, "look, they're young and they've done XYZ." So what? Every team, every player, and every system is different. After taking a quick glance at Auburn's 2 deep roster this is what I found:
TE: JR, JR, SO
OT: SO, RS FR
OT: SO, SO
OG: RS FR, SO
OG: JR, RS FR
C: JR, JR
So, you're right, they're young. But, the thing that stands out to me the most is that they have a JR Center, only one RS FR starting, experienced TE's and NO FR starting -- very different than Michigan's profile.
The OL is a problem because they're young, and because the roster lacks depth. People forget that having a RS FR starting isn't necessarily an issue if, and only if, that RS FR was able to beat out more experienced players. I think much of Michigan's OL last year, and this year, is "starting by default" because the depth and competition just wasn't there.
Further, as much as I love and respect Fitz, I think his struggles compounded the OL issues. He wasn't hitting the hole, and even against OSU when he seemed to have a big running lane on those screens, he hesitated and got stopped short of the first down/end zone.
I just think that Michigan fans need to calm down, understand that this season was always going to be the worst of the rebuild/transition, and that the ceiling is very very high for the program. We're back to recruiting at our historically elite level, we're adding much needed depth, but there was always going to be a "lull year" in which things just didn't come together. To me, the most exciting thing about the program is, despite the struggles this season, the never quit attitude, and the way that they hang together through adversity. I am a firm believer in the fact that champions are forged through adversity -- i.e., they need to struggle first to build championship character.
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:11 PM ^
Manball just does not cut it in the 21st century of college football, unless you get uber talent like Alabama but guess what, they lost to a team playing the spread!
I think Hoke must change. Borges can run a WC offense sprinkled with spread if Hoke allows him too. If Hoke will get out of the way and let Borges go with what will work on offense, I think we could have a great season next year, I'm talking 10-2. If Hoke insists on his manball mantra then we are going to lose 4 to 5 games.
We'll see what happens during the bowl game. If we go wide open offense again, then I'll be very optimistic that Hoke will let Borges run with a more exciting offense and not manball.
If Hoke is stuck on manball he will not be around after 2015! Come on Hoke, drop this manball shit!
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 PM ^
"Manball" isn't really a system, it's a made up name that Brian used at one point and has caught on. Ohio State runs just as much "Manball" schemes as Michigan did this year. But it's used as a bad-word to describe Michigan as some sort of Dinosaur offense because it isn't the current trend offense in college football.
A "pro-style" West Coast Offense can be just as successful as a spread to run team or a spread to pass team or any other offense. Just because Bama lost to Auburn, doesn't mean it was only because Auburn ran a spread. Last year, LSU only lost to Alabama. Alabama only lost to LSU. Neither ran a spread. Oregon got beat up by LSU last year. Oregon got beat up by Stanford this year.
Either system can work, just like a 4-3 defense or a 3-4 defense or a 4-2-5 defense of a 3-3-5 defense can work. People claiming they can't are as silly as the people that claimed a spread couldn't work in the B1G. Spread isn't some magic bullet, it's the newest trend (note: not gimmick, trend). It doesn't mean that other things can only work with great super talent.
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:36 PM ^
I saw a lot more spread against OSU then the pro set. I find when Michigan goes up on some teams they return to a more conservative pro set. I'm not a coach but a WC offense executed correctly would work. Please just don't run the ball on 1st down with 12 in the box, don't fake a hand off to the RB on 2nd down. Then try to throw on 3rd and long when your opponent has a full blitz on!
We'll see what Borges calls up during the bowl game. And can he make adjustments in the 2nd half?
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:45 PM ^
They should have let summer camp decide who was going to start, then just play that starting lineup through the year. This constant switching really destroyed tine continuity and development of the interior of the OL. I think the OL set up in the OSU game did a very good job. I hope the coaches keep this lineup through the bowl practices and we'll see in any continuity develops during the bowl game. Next spring and summer pick the starters and stick with them. Yes, they may have some bad games but they will learn!
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:21 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:15 PM ^
We need to hire a good QB coach and a DL coach. I think we are missing Montgomery and we need someone good to replace him!
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:24 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 PM ^
And then there was 2013 NCAAB. Remember posts like this? (I don't mean to call out any particular poster, there were no end of examples of this)
Bottom line is this team lacks the killer instinct and has assumed the personalty of its coach. Beilein job is safe (Brandon has built a shrine of Beilein in his back yard) but with the regularity of losses to stiff competition it will be inevitable that recruiting will begin to suffer. Word will get around that Michigan is a paper tiger.I like the idea of bringing in new assistant coaches that will help with defense and defense rebounding but I would add that the offensive needs help. Many good teams use schemes to score. Michigan seems to be built on individual ability. Let the player decide if he can score given his position on the court. No plays or strategy to allow them to get open.Good defenses will shut down individual based offensives.
Championship teams excel on defense. Michigan up to now and going forward cannot play at that level unless things change.
It was going to be a disaster forever because Beilein was soft and didn't know how to draw up an offensive scheme. "No plays or strategy."
That was written on March 16, 2013.
December 2nd, 2013 at 8:53 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 PM ^
Anticipates is the key word.
Would be good if Hoke learns the offense for next year. Maybe he could have called timeout on Sat after Cryer did ... & called a better fuckin play!
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:14 PM ^
Keep the play calls just like they were in the Ohio game. Borges regained my faith. Go Blue!!
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:16 PM ^
pretty frustrated. the coaching staff lost me in penn state....
but it also gets old whining about the coaching. its the easiest scape goat. as far back as the early 2000's i remember people saying it was time for lloyd to move on, and it only got worse till he finally did.
some people wanted rodriguez gone before he even coached a game.
now its hoke's turn. firing someone doesnt automatically fix a problem. telling some or all of the coaches to take a hike would feal good in the short term but im more worried about beating osu and (sigh) msu more than once in a while.
to me, it looked like this team had a lot of youth, and lacked on field leaders. devin wasn't quite that this year. but after this season, i think he might be one next year. with that, hopefully a stouter O-line, bigger threat recievers, improved running backs, and what could be a great defense, this team could turn a corner next year.
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:52 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 11:11 PM ^
i was thinking about when he grabbed lewan and schoefeild.
i don't personally know devin, obviously, but from a distance he strikes me as someone who could come off the better for going through a little hell - and i think this season qualifies as that.
December 3rd, 2013 at 12:32 AM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:23 PM ^
Make the call
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^
And Jackson retires, what happens to the offensive recruits that haven't signed yet?
What happens to the other recruits?
Remember that when you fire a coach, if he's a good recruiter, you're probably firing a couple of his recruits as well.
If Jackson retires, it'll happen after signing day.
I'm no fan of Funk and Borges at this point. But I am a fan of the kids they're bringing in, and I'm willing to wait a year to see how it works out. Meanwhile the thing we loved about Hoke at first was his intense loyalty--to Michigan and his guys. Expecting him to become mercenary at this point in his life is delusional.
He can live with going for two and losing. He can also live with trusting Borges and losing. I don't think you can have the one without the other.
I think Space Coyote is making the most sense here, I really do. But then I'm old and I've learned a thing or two about patience along the way. It's not that I know that things will work out. It's that I know that we're a beat or two away from being able to tell for sure.
BTW, I have this feeling that Mike Hart will be able to make kids see Michigan in a positive light, in due time.
December 3rd, 2013 at 1:35 AM ^
Win already. To say what Hoke said after Akron (putting the blame on the staff) then do nothing different going forward at the end of the season is disheartening.
When will the long dark night end. The gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to this. Please make it stop.
December 3rd, 2013 at 3:03 AM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 9:10 AM ^
December 4th, 2013 at 2:13 AM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 7:22 AM ^
I"m actually with more with you guys rather than against you with the anti borges comments but I really think next year is win or bust. If next year isn't an overwhelming success I think you'll be looking at wholesale changes. It's a make or break year which is actually sort of exciting for me.
No more "oh gee guys we young". That is over...ship has sailed. Even if they are young in some areas it's not an excuse next year. ESPECIALLY when you have a 5th year senior at QB.
I mean all those excuses are over...gone...see ya. The absolute floor next year should be 9-3...I mean that absolute bottom of the barrel.
I know people said "we said that this year" and we did...but you could also see the built in excuses this year....
1. It's only Hoke's 3rd year
2. So young on the offensive line and thin there
3. Basically a new starting QB
4. One of the youngest d's in college football
5. lost one of the most dynamic playmakers in college football
There were pretty major built in things that covered these guys this year. Not next year.
December 3rd, 2013 at 8:01 AM ^
December 3rd, 2013 at 8:37 AM ^
Sam Webb commented on it this morning. The tweet is misleading - what Brady said was he didn't anticipate changes, which is all he can say at this point. Staff evaluations are yet to be done and changes could be made.
December 3rd, 2013 at 5:42 PM ^
December 4th, 2013 at 2:17 AM ^