Informal poll: did this game change your opinion of Hoke?
I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of this board would have answered "yes" to the question is Brady Hoke the best coach for Michigan before this game, with various caveats and quibbles (Funk, Borges) aside.
I am interested to hear how the board would respond to that question now. I'll offer some options:
A- Yes he is, that game sucked and game management was poor, but we can move on.
B- He is provided he makes changes to offensive coaching after the season
C- My faith in Hoke was seriously shaken and I am no longer sure he is the best coach for M.
D- He is not the best coach for M. This game confirmed my fears.
So, if you want to play, please answer both with the letter that best captures your thought, and also is that a change from what you would have answered before?
To start, I will say B. And yes last night changed my mind.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:42 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:46 AM ^
He lost david molk and any kind of push from the O line with him.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:01 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 2:23 PM ^
But not on 4th down.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:42 AM ^
Yeah, I'm a B. I put some of last night on Hoke, though some of the things people are griping about I don't. I'm OK with running the clock down to under a minute when your opponent has no time outs and you're up a TD. I wish we would have called a TO and kicked a FG though.
I'd like to see some shake up in the offensive coaching staff. I blame Borges more than Funk - I know our OL is pretty bad, but I disagree with the people saying we have a lot of talent because outside of the tackles we don't (or at least experienced talent). We played a good chunk of that game with Burzinski and Magnuson in, getting their first PT of the year.
The actual play calling is what drove me nuts, similar to OSU last year. Last night I was not on the Fire Borges train, but after sleeping on it, I am now.
So, B. And get a new OC. What's Loeffler doing right now?
October 13th, 2013 at 12:46 PM ^
your pleasure. Double your fun.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:45 PM ^
To me, manball seems similar to RR imposing 3-3-5 on his DCs, which is why I blame Hoke more than Borges. That first half game plan, on both sides of the ball, was really unbelievable. Our two biggest weaknesses are our OL rush blocking and our defensive pass rush. So our approach is 3 man rushes on critical downs and run after run into a stacked box?
As always, we were forced to abandon manball and start getting far more aggressive on our pass rushes, and shockingly, when you try to play to your strengths rather than your weaknesses, we dominated the half. Until of course the end.
So how does Hoke factor in? While he might not do much during the game, he certainly is involved, I would hope leading, establishing the game plan during the week. And then he is clearly involved at the end of the game with time out management, deciding whether to grind out the clock, deciding whether to just kick without going for a first down, etc. And he absolutely massively failed on every single on of those elements.
October 13th, 2013 at 2:48 PM ^
Loeffler is the first year OC at Auburn.
October 13th, 2013 at 3:21 PM ^
Loeffler is at Virginia Tech now. Last year he was at Auburn, and wasn't too successful.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:42 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 1:39 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 3:51 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
B
I am just back from (UN)Happy Valley. Last evening John L. Smith was coaching our team in the 4th quarter and in overtime.
Have been a Michigan football fan for 45 years and I cannot think of a more discouraging loss. We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
As Herm Edwards said, "Hello? You play to win the game!"
October 13th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
Well I am glad you allowed enough time to pass to allow a rational poll...
E. Every coach goes through challenges and has some horrible moments. If I remember correctly Jim and John Harbaugh wanted to take or remain at jobs in the NFL so who exactly was the no brainer hire you suggest instead of Hoke?
This team had no business getting Sanduskied however the fact remains that Hoke had to salvage the last Rodriguez class and is only now working on his own second class of recruits while transitioning to an entirely new scheme.
It was an awful loss-this team is not great but has moments of good and moments of complete ineptitude as you will find in youth. Take a breath and realize that changing coaches every three years is not a path to greatness.
Allow Hoke to recruit as he is recruting and give him the 5 YEARS every coach needs to instill his system and program. Patience is the only choice you have and next year this team will still be one of the youngest in the B1G.
What we are seeing is the result the last two atrocious RR recruting years and attrition on the O and D lines and some very young kids being put in place too soon.
Now suck it up and accept reality.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ^
Give him the same 5 years that Rich Rod had to . . . . oops.
October 13th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 2:54 PM ^
You're totally wrong. RR inherited a smoking crater from LC. He improved it every year and built it into a team that could win 11 games, although he wasn't allowed to coach it. The team has deteriorated every year since Hoke took over.
So, RR upward trend, improving the team. Hoke downward trend, team deteriorating. Yet you say RR didn't deserve more time to lock in the improvements.
Brandon has placed the team in a terrible positiion. Change coaches now and We are Notre Dame.
October 13th, 2013 at 3:57 PM ^
There are three phases of the game: offense, defense and special teams. RichRod improved us in only one of the three. The other two got progressively worse over his three years.
RichRod's final three games at Michigan were beatdowns by scores of 48-28, 37-7 and 52-14. After three years of RichRod, we were still worse than we ever were under Carr. Lloyd never lost six games in a season. nor did he ever have a losing B1G campaign.
Some improvement, that.
October 14th, 2013 at 2:25 AM ^
This year, Hoke's third, we beat Akron by 4 and UConn by three and lost to a crippled Penn State team. That's regression, W-L aside. Rodriguez improved every year. And, looking at a year when RR would finally have a second year starter at QB, the fourth year should have been the breakthrough.
October 13th, 2013 at 3:16 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 3:37 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:44 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:53 AM ^
We actually rushed the passer better last night than we had before. It wasn't dynamic, by any means, but it wasn't what it had been.
And your reasoning suggests you should be more B or C than D. But it's your vote.
October 13th, 2013 at 1:18 PM ^
Completely agree with your statements. I thought the defensive line was able to generate decent pressure on a largely consistent basis. Were they setting the world on fire? No, absolutely not....but I thought it was a marked improvement from what we have previously seen. I think they finished with 4 sacks and I would imagine at least 5 more Hurries? Black was disruptive most of the evening, and it seemed as though there was intermittent pressure from the ends as well. Just my observations.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^
I'm terribly dissappointed that this seems to be the worst team since 2008. There are 3.5 games of evidence to suggest that.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:46 AM ^
Until Hoke shows some balls and fires someone , 8-4 is going to be the norm.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:46 AM ^
Think he is a good coach, has solid mind for the game, and knows Michigan tradition, but his demeanor scares me more than anything... Coaches need to yell and be able to get players fired up... Hoke hasn't done any of that. Add his inability to win big road games, and I am beginning to lose confidence...
Doesn't need to be stated, but Borges and Funk need to go... NOW
October 13th, 2013 at 11:47 AM ^
I love Hoke and am certainly willing to give him a few more years to develop this program. Currently though, the O-line is crap. Our O-line gets pushed around by MAC teams, We can't even run on the worst teams in college football. How is that possible? We need spomeone who can and will right that ship. Immediately.
Borges can and does put up points, but the final drive in regulation last night was the last straw for me. Running up the middle for a loss or no game repeatedly. It was painful to watch. Our last drive lost us the game. Then there was overtime. Run up the middle for a loss or no gain. Repeatedly. Puke.
I love Hoke and still have no doubts he is the man for the job. However, I absolutely think he needs to find a new O-line coach and a new offensive playcaller.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:47 AM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 12:00 PM ^
development. Gardner had a pretty good second half, showing he was able to shake off the mistakes from the first half. That's improvement. The loss falls squarely on the coaches. Running the ball up the middle for no gain and not managing the clock or using time-outs properly. Last night's loss had nothing to do with a transition in coaching philosophy. We should have won that game.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:13 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 12:19 PM ^
We do not have the players starting right now to run a pro style offensive, but BORGES thinks we do! Toussaint is not a power back and he's not gonna go anywhere runnning into the middle of the line like that! We need to just go back to 100% shotgun.
October 13th, 2013 at 1:24 PM ^
during the game last night that Green was at RB, he gets the ball, run towards the line, and then starts dancing and side stepping before he gets to the line of scrimmage. Tackled for no gain. Dude, you are our power back. Bust your ass to the line and push the pile. You came into camp looking like a big bowling ball. At least freaking have the balls to play like a 240 lb bruiser back. I think Fred needs to go to. I can't wait until he retires next year. Funny and great guy. But, his time in the spotlight has come and gone.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^
Hoke is a great person, solid recruiter, and understands Michigan football. However, in addition to making some assistant changes I think he needs to be a little harder on the team in practice and during the game. I'm not sure what this team is doing during practice, but whatever they are doing is not resulting in on-the-field improvements. This team is as soft as Hoke's belly. Also, you can only pat Captain Interception on the rear and tell him to get em next time for so long.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:48 AM ^
A.
You should be ashamed for posting this question.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:17 PM ^
Why exactly? Am I advocating firing anyone? Should people not ask questions on the board that might lead to answers (from some) you don't approve of? How silly you are. This was a moiderate post that advocated nothing even controversial.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:21 PM ^
Silence! It's lockstep time. Get to marching, son.
October 13th, 2013 at 2:59 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^
Right now between A and B.
We have had only one team from 2007 to 2013 that has been even close to complete and that was in 2011. I feel like Hoke and Mattison are fine choices - Mattison is mainly being done in by youth, though he does make some puzzling decisions - so long as we get Hoke 2011 instead of whoever was coaching last night. Good God, where was the aggression that we saw from the Sugar Bowl season?
But Borges has to be on the hot seat. Slamming Fitz up the middle over and over again when the middle consists of 3 guys who have barely played college football is ridiculous. The game management when its close and in the final minutes has been atrocious since he's been here. He needs to come up with a big second half or I think he needs to go.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:07 PM ^
That's okay but the results running wide were even worse, and any pass carried a significant risk of interception, so the choices were pretty limited.
October 13th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
October 13th, 2013 at 12:54 PM ^
is in the open field.
How many times did the coaches utilize this skill set?
October 13th, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^
B. Three years is too soon to pull the plug. Nobody wants to go through this AGAIN. But the heads of Borges and Funk on a platter would be most welcome.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:50 AM ^
No one is gonna get canned during the season. Hoke most likely doesn't know how to run an offense ( I know I know either does Borges) so Borges is stayin put. Funk is Hokes guy and the excuse of a young offensive line will be used.
October 13th, 2013 at 1:20 PM ^
Here's the thing:
No matter what people say I don't think Dave Brandon or Hoke are idiots. All you need to do is look across the parking lot from the Big House to see an example of a program that went from moribund to national championship caliber in a span of about six years. The key ingredient to that was Beilein getting the right people (assistants and players) on the bus.
Hoke and Brandon: please take a page out of Beilein's book #kthanksbie.
October 13th, 2013 at 2:06 PM ^
Brandon doesn't hire assistant coaches. He can determine the amount of money allocated to the coaching staff, but that's it. If we have staff changes, it's Hoke's call.
October 13th, 2013 at 11:52 AM ^
I haven't read any comments. My own view is that the conservative shell Michigan went into is all on Hoke. Ommission/Commission, he's the coach. He could have picked up a headset and said, "We can't run. We need some first downs. Let's get it." We can infer that didn't happen.
I haven't seen this shell before, so I'm willing to think it's an aberration. But, it's a consideration that I didn't have two days ago.
As for the rest of the coaches, I think it's too early. But, substantial progress is needed.