Michigan vs. Wisconsin B-Ball Snowflakes and Post Game Open Thread
Wisconsin I and Indiana II were disappointing ENDINGS. This was flat out a disappointing EFFORT.
(Slight Mod Edit - condensing snowflakes to one thread. This thread had more replies and discussion, but M-Wolverine won the "thread title" contest. LSA)
I have a question for you. Have you ever played organized sports at any level? I just wonder if you have any concept of what it takes to actually compete in sports.
Please hand in your basketball fan card. Suggesting that a team will get better after losing the player of the year is a bad opinion.
Devil's advocate...Trey average 7 assists per game. He gets people involved. His assist rate would be even higher if we could take care of finishing at the rim. Not sure how removing 20 points and 7 assists will make us better. You better hope we get exponential development from other players (which is completely possible), or the incoming freshmen are even better than this year's crop (also possible).
true, he gets everyone involved, and i don't think that burke is a similar player to manny at all (just brought that up because d-mo was an example of a player who was shadowed by a high usage player his first year, then made "the leap" his second year).
but our team is 100% reliant on burke for everything--scoring, assists, kinda leadership. next year, if we spread the offensive emphasis around more, we will possibly be a more steady and reliable team.
and you have to assume that at least a couple of the freshmen get better at defense and rebounding, because they can't really get worse.
but our team is 100% reliant on Burke for everything
Got it. I won't argue much with that point. If Walton comes in and becomes Yogi Ferrell Part II, I will be very happy. And I really think Zak Irvin will arrive with much better defensive tools than other recent freshmen that have contributed heavily.
if walton is somewhere between d-mo (year 1) and burke (year 1) then we will be set. i'm very high on irvin. if thj decides to leave, then irvin should help fill that void.
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March 15th, 2013 at 11:41 PM ^
the NCAA's last year?
or any other tournament that starte after January......
Michigan making it to the 2nd NCAA round involved first round upsets, and then near second-round upsets of Oklahoma & Duke.
Way too negative on Beilein. I get the frustration, but we don't have to take it out on the guy who resurrected the program from NIT-ball.
Only guys that play hard should see the floor from here on out. McGary, Burke, and Albrecht. I'd rather lose playing 5 on 3 than putting zombies like GRIII and Morgan on the court.
51 points to Wisconsin in one half of basketball.
There is nothing else to analyze
... but I really have to blame myself for having unrealistic expectations. This is a team that should never have been ranked #1; does pretty much the same thing every game that it loses; has regressed over the course of a season; is easily exploitable inside; shows long stretches of minimal effort - and on it goes. These are the facts and, despite what I've seen for the past couple of months, I have yet to capitulate to them.
If we go beyond the second round, I will be pleasantly surprised - pretty shocked, in fact, unless the draw is highly favorable.
are making me thirsty.
So in other words, Beilein would not have done a successful job this year unless he took Michigan from where they were last year to a national championship this year.
And if he doesn't succeed in making that leap, he deserves to be fired immediately.
Gotcha. You seem rational.
Talent + experience = winning (unless you're last year's Kentucky team). We have had one of the two during Beilein's tenure. We play two upper classmen, basically.
One NBA lock as a freshman and a fringe NBA player is not the kind of talent I'm talking about. This team is closer to that kind of talent, but exactly one of whom is an upper classman. And we've got no seniors or people who had to take a leadership role before, because Novak was there to do it for them. It takes time to learn to lead, in addition to the inclination. As Novak, for example, has said, repeatedly.
Assuming everyone but Burke stays, and we see the same results next year (in addition to next month; getting out of the Big Ten will help us a LOT) when we add even more highly regarded talent, then you can start to complain.
Hahahahaha! Really? Did you really think Douglass and Novak would be part of a team that could make a deep run? Novak was a 6'4" power forward/small forward! Douglass was just a guy!
"Experience" doesn't just mean an old guy. You have to have guys who are old and have a little bit of talent. I hate to knock a guy like Novak, but let's be realistic. Anything we achieved with him as a starter was overachieving.
The fact that he hasn't gotten out of the second round of any postseason tournament in his time year, is a pretty good indication of how his teams have plateaued.What about the fact that he took WVU to the Elite Eight, the Sweet 16 and the NIT championship in three straight years? Before last year, Beilein's teams had outperformed their seed expectation in every postseason he'd been to for about a decade.
All I'm saying is that this is as far is going to get.We're 26-7 and will be a high seed in the NCAA tournament. Oh no, the horror.
I don't want to hear it.
Ridiculous for what Beilein has built.
If you think the team is in the same place it has been for the past three years, you're mistaken. Just because they lost to Wisconsin the afternoon after beating PSU in the Big Ten Tournament doesn't mean they're stagnant. I mean, they were the #6 team in the country before this game and hit #1 earlier in the season.
Some of you people are going to be pissed off if Michigan doesn't win the national championship every year, even though there are 300+ teams vying for the same goal.
Michigan sucked for a while. They're working their way up. It doesn't happen overnight. Recalibrate your expectations.
Well, they were 24-10 last year.
They're 26-7 now.
So basic math disagrees with you.
I'm with you, but facts will get you nowhere with this crowd today, Magnus. How dare you disperse factual tidbits instead of wielding pitchforks and torches.
one other problem that is still too early to call a trend is that we are getting unlucky with the talent level of our players.
kentucky is all about 1 and dones. they get players who dominate in college for one year, then go get drafted in the first round.
msu is all about getting college basketball players who stay 4 years and excel as upper classmen.
michigan? we seem to be getting players that are in between. d-mo maximized his nba potential, but would never be a 1st rounder. it seems thj is the same as him. gr3 has time to improve but may leave after next year and follow this mold. burke is weird in that he is poy level player but isn't a lock to be an nba star (could have same career arc as derrick williams).
i don't think our current model is sustainable. players who could move us towards msu: stauskas, mcgary, and maybe levert.
Beilein's philosophy is tailor-made for taking a group of medicore level players and coaching them up to overachieve. He was THE PERFECT coach for taking us out of the darkness.
But I just don't see how anyone could predict that Beilein could produce a team that plays good defense and gets rebounds. Has he ever coached a team with a top 25 defense before? No.
I know that his job is safe for as long as he wants it, but I think we are destined to be a frustratingly soft team for as long as he coaches here.
McGary
Hardaway
Stouskis
Burke
Spelling, for one.
But, I suspect we see that lineup more in the tournament so long as the other team doesn't go small and quick.
HAHA!!! Man this team is in a slump.. Why can't we peak at the end of the season instead of midway through?
We got the BEST slogans though! Woo hoo! How about them ugly pants?
We should play a weak 13 or a 14 seed and then beat whomever we have next because it'll be a middling Big East/ACC/Pac 12 team.
The team just isn't that tough. Eventually they'll play a team that will punch them in the mouth and back down, give up O rebounds, and jack threes and hope they go in.
in the Sweet 16.
This has probably been suggested before, but I'd really like to see TWO threads started after games, a RANT thread and a SERIOUS DISCUSSION thread. That way all of you DB's who are bagging on these kids now (but LOVED them all after the OSU and MSU wins) can have your own little place to be pathetic reactionists while the rest of us actually have a place to voice rational critique and discussion. This would allow the mods to simply direct RANTERS to the RANT thread when they take the time to post how they "don't have time to watch" losers, instead of handing out down votes and deleting comments and all that.
There are so many good questions and comments in these threads, but they get drowned out by the noise coming from the kiddie table. Let's give the kiddie table their own thread.
This should probably be in the rant thread.
Fuck this team so hard, I'm tired of their cocky bullshit. Learn to play some fucking defense, team as a whole, but specifically talking to you Glenn Robinson/Nik Stauskas. And learn to make some playups Jordan Morgan. Morgan is really getting on my fucking nerves lately, but I've never disliked a player as much as I dislike Glenn Robinson right now. Kid's a spoiled brat who is using Michigan as a 1 year stepping stone to the NBA and he couldn't care less how the team does.
No longer being a mod.
I hope all the bad things in life happen to you and nobody else but you.
Morgan has always been a below-average B1G player. I said this earlier in the year and got banned.