U of M to require student-athletes to be fully vaccinated by Aug. 1

Submitted by robpollard on June 30th, 2021 at 8:24 PM

From Angelique -- key info is in the title.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2021/06/30/university-michigan-require-student-athletes-fully-vaccinated/7817679002/

Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I am sure different sports and different schools will have different policies, so we'll see how many schools do the same or follow the lead of NC State instead.

Wendyk5

June 30th, 2021 at 9:08 PM ^

Dudes, it's a medical issue, just like getting any other vaccine. My kid has to show proof of vaccination for all her childhood vaccinations. This is no different. 

robpollard

June 30th, 2021 at 9:45 PM ^

They chose a different strategy, and it didn't work out.


In a statement released by N.C. State on Saturday, (Athletic Director Boo) Corrigan said it was up to the players whether or not they got vaccinated.

They ended up with 8 cases while in Omaha, all of the Delta variant, so they were bounced from the tourney considering the size of the outbreak and the number of unvaccinated players they had. The symptomatic cases were unvaccinated; the asymptomatic were a mix.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article252427648.html

 

Eph97

July 1st, 2021 at 1:42 AM ^

This is a good policy. It's not just about death, its about the long lasting side effects. Myles Garrett, a freak athlete with a chiseled physique and only 25 years old, struggled with symptoms last season after Covid. He was visibly gassed and struggling on many plays after he came back from Covid. I hope he's over it now.

WGoNerd

July 1st, 2021 at 8:53 AM ^

This was already going to be University policy for students that are going to be on campus in the fall, which all the athletes are, so this really shouldn't be a surprise.

Real Tackles Wear 77

July 1st, 2021 at 9:49 AM ^

Good! You want to be part of this university community, you have to do your part to make sure it can be done safely. 

I'm all for personal liberties and freedom of choice, but it's useless to cover our eyes and pretend like public health is not a thing.

MacMarauder

July 1st, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^

Ok I'll be the one to ask it... is this going to affect recruiting? I could see schools that don't require vaccination to use this as a negative recruiting tactic. Do we know how many / which schools will require vaccination yet?

Obviously the overall health of the university is way more important than just the football team and for the record I'm all for vaccinations (got mine as soon as I could).

 

MeanJoe07

July 1st, 2021 at 10:48 AM ^

Any thoughts on Dr. Robert Malone the inventor of mRNA technology expressing concerns over the safety of the vaccine? Notably, the fact that the spike protein itself damages tissue and we discovered the vaccine doesn't stay in the arm like most vaccines, but spreads to the brain, heart, and other organs.  This could be why some show very random symptoms (e.g. Myocarditis). Additionally, the nano lipid particle that delivers the mRNA accumulates in the ovaries and bone marrow post injection.  They're using the VAERS database for studying adverse reactions which leads to under reporting especially due to pressure to get the vaccine and pressure for it to be successful/safe. Studies show children are already basically immune and Cleveland clinic shows if you had COVID, getting the vaccine is pointless. It was not tested on pregnant women and obviously there are no long term trials in any human.  Is that all bullshit?  I'm not saying it's all true, but these are  real concerns people have. I'm not married to any argument, but I don't see much calm discussion about people's fears in either direction. I don't think one side is winning over the other by belittling or dismissing their concerns as conspiracy. (á la Lab Leak Theory)

drjaws

July 1st, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^

yes, it's all bullshit.  For one, he didn't invent it. Katalin Karikó did the ground work and Drew Weissman helped her with the last few stumbling blocks.

I have already posted numerous times in this thread debunking most of everything you have questioned.

Facts are that Covid, and it's side effects (short and long term) are thousands of times more deadly than the vaccine .... potentially tens or hundreds of thousands .... and occur at rates tens or hundreds of thousands times more often than with the vaccine.

We have more data now on the vaccines (3.09 billion doses) than we do covid itself

MeanJoe07

July 1st, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^

Not completely immune, but any risk from vaccine, even if small, might be greater than letting their immune system handle it. Here are some sources from my local Qanon conspiracy mom group.  Let me know if you can debunk for me.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6543/738

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-w…

schizontastic

July 1st, 2021 at 4:59 PM ^

Yes, that Science paper is well known and it definitely does not demonstrate that people entering uni should not be vaccinated. It suggests that kids > adults have cross-reactivity to SARS-CoV-2, which may be good but in no way means "kids are naturally immune to Covid-19 never give vaccines to them.  

MeanJoe07

July 1st, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^

Cool. It probably does make sense for most people to err on the side of vaccinating, but Jesus H. Christ it would be nice if there could be a conversation. Maybe, just maybe it's not a good idea to hand out vaccines to every, man, woman, child, and ferret every day and twice on Sunday like it's a BOGO sale at Cinnabon and if you disagree you're Qanaon anti science hack. Maybe it is an awesome idea. Fuck me I guess for wanting to consider other data/opinions about a new vaccine. Everyone was so spot on with the lab-leak being total conspiracy so I should prob trust them and not worry it's political.

JamieH

July 1st, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^

There has never been anything even 1% reputable that says kids are "basically immune".  Yes kids are (mostly) not dying from it, and that is great.  But that isn't immunity.  They can still get sick and exhibit the long-term problems that sometimes occur from the virus.  

Wendyk5

July 1st, 2021 at 2:00 PM ^

I tend not to trust doctors who make healthcare issues political, like he did by going on Tucker Carlson. He literally could've gone on any other show but he picked one that is purely political and a known purveyor of falsehoods and lies. Integrity matters here. 

tpilews

July 1st, 2021 at 1:22 PM ^

Wonder if they are going to recognize natural immunity from past infection. For some reason, that is mostly being ignored by the media and states/countries. 

I give blood every 2 months because I'm O- and have been antibody positive since December. Giving blood tomorrow, so will be able to update in a few days if I'm still antibody positive for 8 months running.

drjaws

July 1st, 2021 at 1:43 PM ^

False statement as posted.

We don't know a ton about covid and long-term immunity, however, natural and vaccine immunity are equivalent (if the vaccine is properly developed).

Per the CDC:

Active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.

Active immunity is long-lasting, and sometimes life-long.

Per the Children's Hospital of Philadephia

It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Whereas immunity from disease often follows a single natural infection, immunity from vaccines usually occurs only after several doses. However, the difference between vaccination and natural infection is the price paid for immunity:

  • The price paid for immunity after natural infection might be pneumonia from chickenpox, intellectual disability from Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), pneumonia from pneumococcus, birth defects from rubella, liver cancer from hepatitis B virus, or death from measles.
  • Immunization with vaccines, like natural infections, typically induces long-lived immunity. But unlike natural infection, immunization does not extract such a high price for immunity; that is, immunization does not cause pneumonia, intellectual disability, birth defects, cancer or death.

If you could see the world from the perspective of your immune system, you would realize that where the virus or bacteria comes from is irrelevant. Your immune system “sees” something that is foreign, attacks it, disables it and then adds information to the memory bank, so your body can react more quickly the next time that same foreign invader arrives.

The differences between a vaccine and getting the disease naturally are the dose and the known time of exposure:

  • Dose — When someone is exposed to viruses or bacteria naturally, the dose is often larger, so the immune response that develops will typically be greater — as will the symptoms. However, when scientists are designing vaccines, they determine the smallest amount of virus or bacteria needed to generate a protective immunologic response. In this situation, more is not necessarily better.
  • Time of exposure — Most of the time, we do not know when we are exposed to viruses and bacteria; however, when we get a vaccine, we know about the exposure. In essence, we are controlling exposure to the viruses or bacteria that the vaccines protect against because we know when and where they occur. In contrast, and more typical of the norm, we don’t know what viruses or bacteria we are exposed to from the trip to get the vaccine — the door knob, the office, the books in the waiting room, or the toddler at the restaurant we go to after the office visit. Luckily, most of these exposures do not result in infections that our immune system is unable to control.

Of interest, a few vaccines induce a better immune response than natural infection:

  • Human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine — The high purity of the specific protein in the vaccine leads to a better immune response than natural infection.
  • Tetanus vaccine — The toxin made by tetanus is so potent that the amount that causes disease is actually lower than the amount that induces a long-lasting immune response. This is why people with tetanus disease are still recommended to get the vaccine.
  • Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) vaccine — Children less than 2 years old do not typically make a good response to the complex sugar coating (polysaccharide) on the surface of Hib that causes disease; however, the vaccine links this polysaccharide to a helper protein that creates a better immune response than would occur naturally. Therefore, children less than 2 years old who get Hib are still recommended to get the vaccine.
  • Pneumococcal vaccine — This vaccine works the same way as the Hib vaccine to create a better immune response than natural infection.

So, in summary, vaccines afford us protection with lesser quantities of virus or bacteria and the control of scheduling the exposure.

Shop Smart Sho…

July 1st, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^

Go argue with Dr. Francis Collins.
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/

 

"Now, a new NIH-supported study shows that the answer to this question will vary based on how an individual’s antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 were generated: over the course of a naturally acquired infection or from a COVID-19 vaccine. The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying “single letter” changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection.

These results add to evidence that people with acquired immunity may have differing levels of protection to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants. More importantly, the data provide further documentation that those who’ve had and recovered from a COVID-19 infection still stand to benefit from getting vaccinated."

drjaws

July 1st, 2021 at 2:32 PM ^

Yea, that's why I said false as posted.  It was a generic statement.

In general, both are equally strong and long lasting, but there are a few diseases where the vaccine offers better and longer lasting protection than natural exposure and vice versa.

In addition, the reason isn't because of inherent 'natural immunity' vs 'vaccine immunity', it's because SARS Cov2 mutates rapidly and the vaccine offers a more generic immunity to the spike protein.

tpilews

July 1st, 2021 at 2:25 PM ^

Yeah, I'm genuinely curious. I never tested positive for covid, but have been antibody positive for, likely, 8 months now. I've read both good and bad with regards to getting the vaccine after prior infection. The most recent was the Cleveland Clinic study that suggests there is no additional benefit. 

Wendyk5

July 1st, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^

A friend of mine got Covid very early on, in March 2020. He participated in a long-term study on this issue, that kept track of the level of antibodies he had over the course of ten months post-infection. Some people lost their antibodies by the three month mark. Others extended to 6 or 7 months. His lasted through 9 but at a much-reduced level. So having had the virus does not mean you have enough or prolonged protection against the virus. 

Don

July 1st, 2021 at 1:34 PM ^

I assume all those who are very concerned about the alleged dangerous side effects of the COVID vaccines are also very concerned about alcohol consumption because the extensively-documented and very damaging effects of booze are magnitudes greater than for any COVID vaccine. 

Oddly enough, I don't see any of you expressing your concern about alcohol consumption in the weekly "what am I drinking" threads.