What about 1812?
For me the highlight will be the Lions on Thanksgiving.
Burying the lede: Nov 24 = This Fat Guy's Favorite Holiday:
Smoked Turkey
Cornbread Stuffing and Sourdough Stuffing
Greenbean/Bacon Casserole
Whipped Potatoes a la WQ Dining Hall
That is going to be a fun weekend as it is my favorite holiday too to go along the sporting events!
You’re not fat, just excellent at storing calories
An energy back, shall we say...
“Big boned”
Red, white, and go blue!
The greatest rivalry in sports, preceded by the greatest rivalry in the 18th century.
preceded by the greatest rivalry in the 18th century.
Are Britain and France playing? Or are the Ottomans making a comeback to play Russia?
Those are analogous to the iron bowl or the red river showdown. We are talking about The Game, 18th century war version
Well we did have a winning record against them in the 18th century, so I'll take it!
You talking about the football team? Cuz they were not around in the 18th century.
You serious, Clark? I was talking about our undefeated 1-0 record against Britain in the 18th century.
Honestly, the Game back then was Britain vs. France. We could not have won the war on our own. (For starters, we had no money.)
The USA in 1776 was like Northwestern in 1995 unexpectedly winning the Big because one of the established powers (Michigan) knocked off the other (OSU).
US wasn’t a country until 1783. And to be honest the Revolutionary War was more akin to a civil war. The start of the formation of an American identity distinct from England begins during this period.
As a rule, I try to stay away from name-calling - but I am very tempted to call you a lobsterback
(aka a humble diss)
Damn, Salvatore. You're dropping some knowledge throughout this thread!
The formation of a distinct American identity really begins after the War of 1812 with the birth of the Hudson River School artistic movement. And later with...ugh...minstrelsy.
I will politely disagree. I think there was a conscious effort at the time of the AR for colonists to distinguished themselves from the Mother Country. Even with that we are *still* a significantly Anglocentric country.
Racism begin much earlier with the Spanish. English absorbed it. Americans were born with it like a disease.
It was after the War of 1812 that this was actually discussed. It's one thing to become a separate political entity and another to become distinct culturally. American culture until that time was still imported wholesale from England. Plays, novels, art, etc. People asked then what it meant to be an American if that's what they consumed. So there was a push to create uniquely American art forms to distinguish themselves culturally and thus define themselves as distinct.
Agree about the importance of the Spanish Blood Laws. At the same time though, I tend to believe that racism pops when there is an economic imperative necessitating the creation and dehumanization an 'other.' So the Inquisition was the cover for a massive theft of property from Jews and Muslims. The Blood Laws happened because conversos still had property worth stealing. The English seize Ireland for wheat production because the English nobility was converting their land holdings to sheep pastures for wool production. The Irish must be dehumanized to cover for the sheer injustice of the action. Anti-Black racism follows the slave trade. Western universities create racist departments of 'Oriental Studies' funded by the money made off enslaving China to opium.
Antisemitism is seen in 1096 in the Rhineland and manifests itself repeatedly all over Europe for centuries afterwards in deportation, massacres, denial of citizenship, and social marginalization. An early template for later racist policies.
I tend to see racism as product of territorial expansionism. To invade and take another people’s land requires a certain level idea of one’s superiority. Achieving that only strengthens and expands that belief.
I think if we were able to go back in time and observe empires of the past we would see the beginnings of the idea of biological superiority of one group over another. It just happens that modern racism occurs at a time when the recording of events and data was far more extensive and far easier to access to us than in previous centuries.
I see racism as a ugly, terrible, human trait. Is has persisted throughout time in all races in all civilizations with very few, if any, exceptions.
You can literally google history of racism and learn about it. It's actually a very modern phenomenon, with it's roots in antisemitism in the 1200s if I recall correctly. It's not an ancient trait inherent to humans at all.
> I think if we were able to go back in time and observe empires of the past we would see the beginnings of the idea of biological superiority of one group over another.
The history of racism is well studied and documented. You can literally just google it.
So the signing of the 'Declaration of Independence' that occurred in 1776 didn't come into effect until 1783?
We won in 1783. If we had lost the war, we never would be seen as having created an indpendent country so, yeah
Well... the abstract foundation of an American identity (as opposed to British) started long before the American Revolution had begun. One can argue the semantics about *when* this occurred what the labels were, but there had been distinct identities between the two for a generation or two prior to the war.
There were certainly regional identities before (especially New England vs. Virginia and the South), and identities for individual colonies, but a comprehensive American identity arguably didn’t develop until after the First Continental Congress in 1774.
such a great group. all sorts of interesting dynamics!
USA vs UK is just beautiful. Can't wait.
USA vs Iran will be interesting. Expect a heavily Iranian crowd. Political intrigue b/t the two countries.
The 4th team is undecided but could be Ukraine. Can't imagine an international team with more support than Ukraine. But if not, Wales or Scotland. Not overly interesting for the U.S. but that gave vs. UK will be very fun.
Can't wait. Go blue! (and red and white)
It’s the USA vs England and not the UK. Big distinction in FIFA. As you mentioned, Wales and Scotland have their own teams (as well as Northern Ireland).
And we could play Wales or Scotland potentially....
Crazy how much of the UK is in this group
UK and England are not interchangeable. UK is the political union of Wales, Scotland, England, and Northern Ireland. England is a country that dates backs to Alfred of Wessex.
England existed only in his mind though, his grandson was the first king of England
MGOBLOG-come for football, stay for 9th century British Isles history!
sal, what constitutes britain and great britain? is that just another name for england?
Great Britain is the island that contains England, Wales, and Scotland. Some people may use Britain interchangeably with Great Britain, but they probably shouldn't.
This might help
I watched this and my head is spinning. Not to mention that the narrator drinks waaayyy too much coffee.
Geez...
England, not UK. Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland have their own teams.
Yes, and the US is likely playing one of the other UK teams.
And those teams, along with Ireland, will be rooting hard against England.
Probably not politically correct, but how much motivation did Iran have going up against 'The Great Satan' back in the day, lol.
I came in here ready to shit talk but we've only had three results (won 2 and 1 draw) in 11 matches against the Lions (or whatever the hell they're calling themselves).
I think they switched to Three Lions when they had to give up the nickname Imperialists
Three Lions invokes England’s monarchical heritage. It being part of English heraldry since the 12th century.
At least we drew with them in the last meaningful (non-friendly) match?
But agree that it's going to be tough. They're in good form coming off the Euros last summer too.
They aren't as unbeatable, IMO, as Brazil, Belguim, France or Argentina, but it would be a huge result just to get a draw.
They've been in good form for a year or so.
Yep. It's heartening that the other semi-quality team in their qualifying group, Poland, stuck close at Wembley only losing 2-1 and drew 1-1 in Poland. They're very good but, like I said, I don't think as good as a few other seeded teams.
They got a relatively easy path to the Euro finals after beating Germany. Only had to beat Ukraine in the quarters and Denmark in the semis.