Moe Wagner's Growth

Submitted by Rumsey on

Since we're all pining for football season to start, and it has yet to oblige, I figured some basketball talk might help us get through this sleepy Friday.

Particularly, I want to talk about Moritz Wagner. He came in at 6' 9" 210 lbs. and showed some promise as a freshman. He showed good hands, shot-blocking ability, and some nice touch around the basket. With some added bulk and more experience in Beilein's system he could have a huge sophomore season.

It appears he's making progress in the size department:

Moe Wagner update, 6'11.5" 240lbs. #EatLiftGrowRepeat pic.twitter.com/li5H7Lecf2

— Jon Sanderson (@CampSanderson) July 14, 2016


Improved vertical as well:

First lift rockin the Jordan Gear! #GoBlue @umichbball pic.twitter.com/EnfOLz02RG

— Jon Sanderson (@CampSanderson) August 1, 2016


In this picture he looks bigger then Donnal and Austin Davis:

Moe Wagner touched 12ft today,his baseline test as a freshmen was 11'4.5" Unbelievable! @umichbball @moritz_weasley pic.twitter.com/qkiXUe4jUW

— Jon Sanderson (@CampSanderson) August 5, 2016


Sam Webb and others have called him the biggest x-factor going into this season. I'm inclined to agree. Looking at the team as a whole, these are the things I think need to happen in order for this team to reach it's potential:
  • Wagner plays like McGary lite
  • Xavier Simpson is able to successfully platoon with Walton and MAAR in the backcourt
  • Irvin plays more consistently
  • Billy Donlon takes Michigan's defense to a new level
  • Duncan Robinson shoots like we all know he can all season.
I think a lot of these are within reach, which is why I see this team winning the B1G and having a nice deep tournament run. NOW DRINK MY KOOL AID.
MGoBoard
Basketball

Naked Bootlegger

August 5th, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^

That Kool Aid tastes delicious!

Wagner is undeniably the X-factor going into the hoops season.   We know the rest of the roster and what they bring to the table (except for incoming freshmen, obviously).   Wagner's late season play provides hope that he can elevate this team significantly.

Joined: 01/28/2011

MGoPoints: 34712

WoodleyIsBeast

August 5th, 2016 at 10:17 AM ^

This definitely made me feel a bit better.....

 

I must admit, I find myself viewing Beilein in a similar breath as Hoke(give me a second here).  Nice guy, not outlandish, had some success relatively early on, feel like I'm just waiting for the day he moves on.  So much money put into Crisler, and the difference in my outlook on the football and basketball teams is vast.

 

I really hope the Mo Wagner's and Duncan Robinson's of this team end up being huge JB success stories.  Here's hoping they show it to us in a few months!

Joined: 09/24/2009

MGoPoints: 39733

rainingmaize

August 5th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^

Hoke won early with all Rich Rod players except Frank Clark. Beilein went to the championship game in his sixth season at Michigan. Unlike Hoke Beilein was super successful at a power 5 school before he came here. Comparing Hoke to Beilein is laughable. Anyone who does so didn't become a fan of the program until the Final Four year.

Joined: 04/13/2010

MGoPoints: 10458

JayMo4

August 5th, 2016 at 12:07 PM ^

Don't forget that - in addition to Clark - Martin, Van Bergen, and Molk were all Carr recruits as well.  I know that it doesn't really make a difference as far as how we remember Hoke, but I remember a lot of talk in Hoke's first year about how Rodriguez should get the credit because they were his guys.  Denard was, Jake Ryan was... but a lot of key guys were holdovers from before Hoke or RR.

Joined: 04/19/2013

MGoPoints: 12070

1974

August 5th, 2016 at 12:54 PM ^

It's interesting (much like the Junior Hemingway tidbit about how he caught passes from about six different QBs) but not meaningful IMO. Molk and RVB were Carr recruits, yes, but they didn't play a single down under him. Martin didn't even have a RS year under his watch. Giving Lloyd credit for any of Brady's first year seems like a reach.

Joined: 04/17/2011

MGoPoints: 7799

WoodleyIsBeast

August 5th, 2016 at 1:07 PM ^

Credit to JB for that, and taking us away from some terrible years.

 

So I guess my question would be what in your eyes would be the break-even point in which you would want to have someone else at the helm for basketball(hopefully in similar fashion to what Harbaugh has done for football)?

Joined: 09/24/2009

MGoPoints: 39733

WoodleyIsBeast

August 5th, 2016 at 1:00 PM ^

Sugar Bowl win or not.

 

Not sure why I'm the pariah here.  I watch just about every Michigan basketball game, and want nothing but success.

 

I have a hard time believing that those who negged me don't expect more from Michigan basketball.  Neg me if it makes you feel better, but we won't be sniffing top talent with JB and his system.  JB made a great run with Burke, Stauskas, GRIII, etc......Where we are as it stands today is that JB is doing a great job of taking kids ranked 50-200 and developing them, but this should be the Sparty argument, not ours.  We all know basketball functions less like a team than football, so the stud players are downright necessary.

 

I appreciate the OP's post because it give me more optimism, but you guys expect more, correct?

Joined: 09/24/2009

MGoPoints: 39733

WoodleyIsBeast

August 5th, 2016 at 5:13 PM ^

We leaked into the round of 64 this year, had a few players transfer, and had a relatively low rated recruiting class, based rankings of course.  This to me is not the sign of a juggernaut that has been dominating and will continue to do so.

 

We routinely lost to ranked teams(the Maryland win was the highlight of the year IMO), and ended the season unranked.  

 

I guess I'll ask you the same question as asked above.  What is the break even point for you in where you'd want to go a different direction?  For me, I would like nothing more than to abandon JB's system, and have a more pro style approach.  If I was one of the top players in the nation, I'd want to do a one and done, or even more, in a college program that looks like the NBA......

 

Yes, injuries hurt us, especially Lavert, but I'm just not confident that we can win big games consistently, and I don't see anything wrong with that until I see something different.

Joined: 09/24/2009

MGoPoints: 39733

goblue224

August 5th, 2016 at 10:18 AM ^

Great to see physical growth and development, but it seems like we hear the same stuff every off-season. I'd like to see the off-season development actually translate into game situations.

Joined: 09/28/2014

MGoPoints: 2475

Lanknows

August 5th, 2016 at 11:31 AM ^

How about Morgan and Horford going from skinny freshman to above average Big Ten centers?

How about MAAR going from non-shooter to a guy who hit over 35% from 3 last year?

Novak, Douglass, Hardaway, Irvin -- the vast majority of rotation players Beilein has improve significantly, and generally the guards do it quickly.

There are some busts and some guys who are who they are but Beilein's track record of improvement is excellent.

Joined: 03/23/2012

MGoPoints: 5384

WindyCityBlue

August 5th, 2016 at 12:09 PM ^

No they are not believe it or not

We are talking freshman to sophomore leaps here as an analog to the M Wagner discussion. I think you missed that. While Burke became a monster his second year, he almost went pro after his first year. Same goes (but to a lesser extent) for Morris. I get what you are saying, but I would call those guys having a great leap from freshman to sophomore years. Certainly improvement no doubt.

All of those other guys did NOT make big leaps from freshmen to sophomore seasons. They got better over the course of several seasons as they should. And Irvin is a huge question mark still (has only been all big ten honorable mention once - wouldn't really call that improvement).



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 40753

BraveWolverine730

August 5th, 2016 at 12:43 PM ^

I know you have an irrational hate boner for JB, but you cannot possibly argue going from 4.4 pts 2.8 ast and 1 8 reb to 15 pts 6.7 ast and 4 reb is anything but a massive leap. Also it wasn't just DMo taking a larger role as his Ortg went from 90 to 111.7. I could make a similiar post for Trey, but I think you vastly underestimate the difference between being a good player and tje best player in the country.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 4188

Lanknows

August 5th, 2016 at 1:47 PM ^

is as unimpressive as your argument is impersuasive.

Burke got a lot better in one year. He may have considered going pro as a freshman, but he didn't. He also didn't win a Naismith award.  The improvement was real, and obvious, as it was for Morris.

Is the number of "outliers" bigger than the number of players that failed to improve?

Joined: 03/23/2012

MGoPoints: 5384

Wolverheel

August 5th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^

I'd even argue that assertion. We all saw the in season improvement from McGary, going from a foul prone and out of shape backup to a 1st round pick. Morgan was the defensive staple of 2 big ten championship teams. Donnal went from "what the hell is this?" To solid Big Ten center last year. This WindyCity guy is a moron.

Joined: 03/30/2013

MGoPoints: 1656

Bando Calrissian

August 5th, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^

Before the first football game I saw Wagner and a couple other basketball players walking around the empty Crisler lot, when the tailgaters were just starting to shuffle in, and Wagner just kept saying "Wow... Wow..." And the scene hadn't even hit 50% yet. It's cool to see how a place like Michigan hits you for the first time.

Joined: 07/02/2008

MGoPoints: 68120

Alumnus93

August 5th, 2016 at 10:35 AM ^

The record will show I've been pitching Wagner as our best player for over a year now. it was criminal that beilein played him so little last season.

Joined: 09/10/2009

MGoPoints: 9684