John Beilein and his predecessors
We'll start off with Bill Frieder, then to Steve Fisher, then to Ellerbe*, and then to Amaker, and finally John Beilein.
Bill Frieder (1980-89): Overall career record at Michigan is 188-90, and a conference record of 102-64. His overall winning percentage is 0.676 and his conference winning % is 0.614. He won the Big Ten twice in his tenure, and never went farther than the Sweet 16 in the tournament. He was fired before the 1989 tournament run
Steve Fisher (1989-97): Overall career record at Michigan was 109-79 or a 0.580 winning percentage. His overall conference record while at Michigan was 79-47 or a 0.627 winning percentage. After the improbable tourney run in 1989, he never lead the Wolverines to another title, falling just short in 91-92 and 92-93. He brought in the Fab Five, and later sanctions were put on Michigan leaving the program dead in the water. He also never won a Big Ten regular season championship.
Brian Ellerbe* (1997-2001): Brian Ellerbe took over a Michigan program harmed by sanctions, and didn't heal any of the wounds. He went 28-32 overall as head coach, or a 0.466 winning percentage, and went 10-22 in conference play while coach of the Wolverines, or a 0.313 winning percentage in the conference. He made no NCAA Tournaments, and one NIT.
Tommy Amaker (2001-2007): Tommy Amaker went 108-84 in his overall record at Michigan or a 0.563 winning percentage. His conference record for the Wolverines was 43-53 or a winning percentage of 0.448. He never won a Big Ten Championship, never made the NCAA Tournament, made 3 NITs and won one NIT. He never was successful here, but now runs a good program at Harvard
John Beilein (2007-Present): John Beilein was hired in 2007 and had the task of turning around a dead Michigan basketball program. In his first season his team went 10-22. After the 10-22 season, they went 21-14 with a birth in the NCAA Tournament for the first time since the year 1996. He went 15-17 in 09-10, but after the abysmal season in 09-10, he lead Michigan to 4 straight tournmanet appearances, which included a National Title appearance, and an elite eight. He has won 2 Big Ten regular season championships in his time here. He was the first coach since Steve Fisher to make 4+ straight NCAA Tournament appearances. He turned around a dead Michigan basketball program into a respectable national program. His overall record at Michigan is 168-110 or a 0.604 winning percentage. His conference record at Michigan is 78-66 or a winning percentage of 0.542. He has won 2 regular B1G championships in his time here.
Why are we so quick to jump on Beilein? Based on all these numbers, Beilein has a better winning percentage than all his predecessors except Frieder. He has performed better in the tournament in Frieder, though. Only Steve Fisher can claim one accomplishment over him, which is a national title, BUT he only coached the tournament, and not the whole season. Beilein is a great coach, and we should maybe give him another year or two of work, before really putting him on the hot seat. If Michigan jumps the gun and fires him too quick, Michigan could be headed back to another era of Ellerbe and Amaker.
*- I don't think it's totally fair to compare Ellerbe's numbers as he took over the team right after the Fab Five scandal, but over the course of his Michigan career his records never improved.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:33 PM ^
What about the guys before Frieder? Would be interesting to see that as well.
Great post BTW.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:35 PM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 10:47 PM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 11:07 PM ^
Okay, understood. I think Orr and Strack would make Beilein look worse.
December 10th, 2015 at 1:20 AM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 10:46 PM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 11:36 PM ^
Yes, as said in the deleted thread last night, Johnny Orr is the closest comparison to what is happening now. He led Michigan to 2 elite 8's and a National runner up in 4 years, and then his record tailed off for 3 seasons when his recruiting tailed off.
But I think its also a bit unfair to categorize those who are wishing to correct the narrative as to what Michigan is capable of as a program, to automatically advocating that Beilein should go.
What Michigan did in the eighties, could absolutely be done now. Frieder wasn't a great bench coach, certainly not the offensive mastermind Beilein is, but look at who he brought in:
1982-Richard Rellford (low 20's) 3 other Top 50 players and Roy frickin' Tarpley
1983-Antoine Joubert (5)
1984-Gary Grant (8)
1985-Glen Rice (7)
1986-Terry Mills (2), Rumeal Robinson (10)
1987-Sean Higgins (11)
That doesn't include Garde Thompson, Loy Vaught, Mike Griffin, Mark Hughes, etc... all top 100.
Those are national rankings, mostly from Bob Gibbons, but now Michigan can't do that? Why not? That doesn't mean Beilein should go, but to say Michigan can't do now what they did do then doesn't make any sense; its simply showing what the Michigan program is in fact capable of, which was a national championship caliber team year in year out from '84-'90.
December 9th, 2015 at 11:53 PM ^
though. Those kinds of kids are one and done, or two and done now. They had to stay 3 years back then. Michigan basketball would be fine this year if McGary were still around, yes?
Guys who left early have forced Michigan to play younger players who aren't ready yet and it shows.
December 10th, 2015 at 12:39 AM ^
Well they didn't have to; Magic 2 years, Isiah 2 years, etc...but if Michigan's players stayed longer back then so did the competition's.
Indiana had a talented veteran team in '86 when Bobby Knight said basically that no one could deal with Michigan when they were "on" and he wished he had their backups or even their redshirts.
December 10th, 2015 at 8:51 AM ^
Don't forget: Beilein is clean and ethical in an era when golden handshakes get a lot more recruits than the promise of a good education.
December 10th, 2015 at 12:46 AM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 6:53 AM ^
Well I had a friend on the team back then and I didn't see his life change any until he got NBA dollars; but because we don't know how far back this all went it sort of illustrates a problem in which we think there has to be some sort of voodoo attached to getting a top high school player. Frieder was always known as a manic recruiter back to his being an assistant.
I mean without casting aspersions on anyone's future prospects I don't think we signed an all early signing 69,140,180, 214 class because we're not paying people and everyone else is. The 2012 class shows what can be done, and I would certainly assume that was clean.
December 10th, 2015 at 8:32 AM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 7:40 AM ^
was 56 percent. excellent recuiter, horrific game coach.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:37 PM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 10:53 PM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 11:42 PM ^
I think people might be getting tired of his brand of basketball more than anything. We see the same weaknesses every year that Beilein doesn't seem to address at all.
And FWIW I don't think it would be that difficult for Michigan to find a great coach to take over. Our athletic department situation is much improved recently, basketball facilities have recently been upgraded, and we are making the switch to Jumpman. I don't think we could attract the absolute best, but I would be very happy with someone like Archie Miller. I don't think a hire like that would be unrealistic.
December 10th, 2015 at 8:35 AM ^
got us to the Championship game, thisclose to winning it all. He's put a number of players in the NBA - not because they were 5 stars coming in.
I think we are not happy because we want the recent success repeated year in and year out.
December 10th, 2015 at 10:33 AM ^
I don't think all the posters here so dumb and shortsighted that they just want recent results. If you watch basketball, if understand basketball, we have not been playing sound fundamental ball for 2 years and the players we have are very soft.. whether that's talent or coaching or both we don't do the little things well. Someone dunked 10 times on us yesterday. It isn't lost on me that that guy was like 24 years old, but I frankly don't think Beilein will ever be able to be consistent becuase he cannot recruit great players unless there's a connection.
We got all those Jr.s and IIIs from players sons when that was going on, McGary probably because of ties to his town in Indiana or other schools cooling on him more than the coaching staff. Stauskus and Burke were a couple of gems that he found but I wonder if that can be replicated. The current recruiting situation is what worries me the most. It spells 2-4 years of mediocrity. If JB fails to make the touranment 3 years in a row, the guy should be let go with a pat on the back. If they wait too long, we could be lower end B1G for 10 years. JB has more than been rewarded for the 3-4 years of success he's had out of 8. The bar needs to be higher. If we are still woozy from the sanctions I get that. But there is a time when you get over it and bring in someone who is going to push the envelope and bring in the in state talent and a few 5 stars from wherever. Beilein ain't that guy.
December 10th, 2015 at 10:27 AM ^
Necause with the resources the university has and is willing to commit, the basketball team should be competing at a similar level to the football team.
We should be a perennial Top 20 team, and make the tournament 80% of the time.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:37 PM ^
I think it's reasonable to expect a staff shakeup to help the defense and rebounding, but I think letting Beilein go would be a mistake. There's not many coaches out there right now.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:38 PM ^
Why are we so quick to jump on Beilein?
Because there's a huge contingency of ungrateful, entitled whiners on here, who did not suffer through the Amaker era (either because they're too young or did not care to watch a losing team), have no idea how bad it can be, and don't realize that UM baketball does not have traditional advantages like football does.
Also, when team team is doing badly, emotional fans assume it will stay that way forever, and when the team is doing great, emotional fans assume it will stay that way forever.
December 9th, 2015 at 11:53 PM ^
So when do we get your permission to complain? Should we wait until they miss the postseason again this year, or are continued blowouts at the hands of decent teams sufficient?
Nobody is suggesting that Beilein be fired, but it's entirely reasonable to be concerned about the direction of the program given that the team is likely to be even worse next year.
December 10th, 2015 at 12:06 AM ^
You don't need anyone's permission to complain, but when you complain you open yourself to criticism of your viewpoint. It's sort of the point of a message board, right?
I agree that it's reasonable to be concerned. But people are suggesting that Beilein be fired if we miss the tourney this year, or are saying that there's no way we return to national prominence under him. Look at the posts directly below this one, and Olaf's constant refrain. This kind of talk was rampant in the game thread and the "embarassment" snowflake thread right after.
I think that's crazytalk. Beilein is not the best coach in the country, but neither are we the best program, or even in the top 10. Thinking we're going to do better by hiring someone else is very shortsighted, in my view.
December 10th, 2015 at 12:18 AM ^
I think I saw like 2, maybe 3, people suggest he should be replaced. Most were demonstrating concern and rightly so.
December 10th, 2015 at 2:23 AM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 8:11 AM ^
you don't have mine...the dude not only rebuilt this program, but did it in a way that everyone can be proud of. Ungrateful whiners are just band wagon fans who weren't here during the harsh years where mens bball was an afterthought. The expectations you're basing his performance off of is purely due to his success.
December 10th, 2015 at 8:15 AM ^
furthermore, the direction that you think this program is going is based off of a little over one season...Last year, we were without our playmaker(s) for extensive swaths of the season, and pile that onto the fact that Mitch McGary was essentially pushed off our team unforeseably by the NCAA. Give the man a break for keeping this ship afloat after losing 5 early entries into the NBA draft and injury issues to LeVert and Walton. And on the recruting trail, thank Mr. Battle for f-ing us over causing us to not only lose him to a known cheater, but to miss out on Langford to MSU. The guy deserves our unending support for what he has done...especially in light of everything that has got in our way over the last few seasons
December 10th, 2015 at 9:39 AM ^
Anyone who thinks that a coach that has won at a very high level should be replaced willy-nilly because "anything else would be better" must not have watched Michigan football between 2007 and 2014...
December 9th, 2015 at 10:37 PM ^
Beilein gets props for bringing us back to life, but it's apparent that he peaked 3 years ago and it's been downhill ever since. The program needs to keep growing and make that next move up the basketball totem pole. He gets the rest of the year to figure it out, but if we miss the tournament again it's time to start wondering why we can't routinely make it
December 10th, 2015 at 12:50 AM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 8:37 AM ^
(no religion!)
December 10th, 2015 at 1:14 AM ^
Except it isn't apparent that he peaked 3 years ago. It's people like you who can't see past the fucking moment. I remember before they made the tourney run there were people bitching about if Beilein was ever going to recruit well enough, or when would his teams perform well enough, etc. This team is super young. We're nine games into the season. Let's at least let the season play out before saying Beilein peaked. Aside from losing five starters in two years, which apparently is an invalid excuse, this team has suffered key injuries, and if you've ever played organized basketball at any level you would know it is hard to gel when you are constantly practicing with different players and not able to build chemistry with key players. The other thing is that there are only so many coaches that consistently have teams who make the tourney and go far in it, and most of them are corrupt or Tom Izzo. I don't agree with everything Beilein tries or does strategically, but who are you going to hire if he gets fired or retires? If this team makes a run the silence will be golden.
December 10th, 2015 at 1:48 AM ^
The super young excuse is one that has been used for a while. This team is experienced. Their rotation is comprised of upper classmen and sophomores who got extensive playing time last year and have been in the system for 1 and a half years. I don't buy this young and inexperienced reasoning. The fact is that Beilein hasn't recruited well enough. That's why we're still struggling to fill the holes left by guys that left 2 and 3 years ago. That's on Beilein and the coaching staff. And it's hard to look at how many plan A guys we have missed on and think that recruiting is getting any better.
December 10th, 2015 at 2:37 AM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 3:00 AM ^
C'mon man. No one is asking for these players to be superstars. We expect them to play at an atleast average P5 level. And they haven't done that.
Chatman is a negative
Donnal is a negative
Doyle has been a negative
Dawkins has been ineffectual
DJ Wilson has been nothing
Rahk has been okay but nothing more than a bench player
They are way way behind where they should be performing. If even half of these guys would play average, you wouldn't hear the bitching. And please don't say Teske and Davis are gonna turn around our big situation. They are the same as every Michigan big. Slow, unathletic, and weak.
December 10th, 2015 at 10:17 AM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 12:18 PM ^
Lol, so it's too much to expect sophomore to be okay players? The Denzel Valentine you were referring to averaged 8 ppg, 6 rpg and 4 apg as a sophomore. Sophomore would be the best sophomore we have by a mile, and probably the third best player on our team.
Let's look at some other sophomores around the league:
Javon Bess: 6 - 4 - 1 in 18 mpg
Isaac Haas: 13.5 - 5 - 1.7 bpg in 18 mpg
Vince Edwards: 9 - 5 - 3.5 in 25 mpg
Melo Trimble: 15.5 - 2.5 - 4.5 in 32 mpg
Bryant Mcintosh: 17 - 3 - 6 in 34 mpg
Scottie Lindsay: 8 - 1.5 - 1.5 in 18 mpg
And this is just from the first four big ten teams I looked up. Every single team in the Big Ten has sophomores (some who were higher and some lower rated than our guys) who are contributing in positive ways to their teams. We have zero of those.
Our huge 2014 recruiting class is way behind the curve. I am not saying they will be bad forever (I don't think anyone is saying that besides with Donnal), but they are way behind where they should be that it looks like their ceiling is not high. The freshman to sophomore jump is generally where players improve the most in college ball, and everyone on the team looks the same or worse.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:41 PM ^
Keeping him through next year. I just don't think it's going to change anything. If he fails to make the tournament three straight years then you have no choice but to part ways. By that point he may just retire anyway.
December 10th, 2015 at 9:10 AM ^
that he raised himself.
Once you take a team to the NC game, fans are naturally going to expect a consistent level of performance thereafter. We all expected that recruiting would get a boost after the NC game season, but it never really materialized the way we anticipated. We were told "well, basketball recruiting is different; you won't see the recruiting bump until the year after the year after appearing in a NC game" but that's turned out to be not true, for reasons that are still unclear to me.
On top of the recruiting, we've had talented kids leave early or get injured, and haven't had the depth to replace them, which means we've sunk down to the level we were a few years ago.
December 9th, 2015 at 10:45 PM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 10:49 PM ^
December 10th, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^
Ellerbe would like a word with you
December 9th, 2015 at 10:50 PM ^
December 9th, 2015 at 10:58 PM ^
I think some criticism is fair right now. We looked unprepared and disinterested last night.
It is hard to watch this team play at times because of the lack of intensity and energy.
The tensions are definitely high because of last year. We all needed Basketball as a cushion after the shitfest that was 2014 Football.
And then the Basketball team was a massive letdown. Then we got treated to guys sitting out half the season while being forced to watch Dakich and Longeran.
And then we played a bunch of close games with a bunch of no name players, only to blow leads at the end, go to overtime, and usually not show up during the overtime.
Then we looked respectable, but got stuck playing Wisconsin in the second game of the tournament. We did the same thing. Played close for 35+ minutes, only to fall apart at the end. (Spike passes to a rolling and wide open Bielfeldt, Bielfeldt proceeds to look and go the other way still pisses me off to this day) - ball goes out of bounds thanks to no court and basketball awareness by Bielfeldt and instead of tie game, Wisconsin finishes ahead.
We are mad right now because we are still fed up with the shitfest last season was.
December 9th, 2015 at 11:03 PM ^
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December 10th, 2015 at 7:59 AM ^
Dude. We won the big ten by three games less than 2 years ago.
EDIT: Not intended to be a reply to you. I'm not sure where the post I replied to went. Sorry about that.
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December 9th, 2015 at 11:19 PM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 11:22 PM ^
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December 9th, 2015 at 11:24 PM ^
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