Harbaugh’s QB’s…
Reading through the game thread, Robm_24 had what I think is the best observation about the season so far. Because of what happened last year, I think many of us are too happy with being “not bad” this year.
I believe our roster is actually better than it’s being put in position to be, but the QB play & coaching is crippling what honestly is a conference for the taking this year. That’s what’s the most infuriating part about this, because I do see a scenario in which UM is the best team in the conference, or at least could be playing the best, but we’ve had built-in handcuffs.
We had a better team than OSU in 2016, I think by a decent margin. QB play kept that game much closer than than it had any right to be, and their athletes won it at the end after a questionable call. But the point is, Jim was a f’ing NFL QB who was at the helm of Luck/Kaep/Smith. That credibility alone I assumed would at least bring in big time talent at that position. Why can’t he get this position right? Why? We probably won’t ever be able to recruit on the same level as OSU, but I thought that Harbaugh’s QB’s here would be able to give us a fighting chance vs anybody…and it’s been the exact opposite. It’s actually what’s held a few of our teams back from nation championship aspirations. I think Jim has been better here than he’s been given credit for on the national level, but this is the biggest indictment on his tenure, IMO.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:05 PM ^
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October 23rd, 2021 at 2:16 PM ^
It's true, but if we're 8-0, let's just take it and argue after the season
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:16 PM ^
Fresh take.
/s(!)
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:21 PM ^
It’s a refresh…but basically the same.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:18 PM ^
The constant change, or alleged change of offensive philosophy doesn't help. You know how happy I'd be if OSU randomly decided they wanted to play with 3 TEs or an extra offensive lineman? We've advertised speed in space and stuff for years, and it always ends in outdated bullshit, with unsuccessful screen passes and jet sweeps and stuff sprinkled in. It doesn't fit together. If I were a QB or skill position player, I wouldn't want to come to Michigan. If I were a hybrid TE/OL, Michigan would be the top of my list.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:19 PM ^
I’d transfer if I was McCarthy and seeing this shit show . Won’t trust him to throw a pass but let cade throw erratic all over
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
Cade while he hasn’t looked like a world beater is at this point 19/26 or completing 73% of his passes. If that’s erratic you have very high expectations.
I wish those passes were more downfield but they are moving the ball and converting, most of the time, when they have to.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:22 PM ^
4.7 YPA is abysmal and won’t beat a single team with a pulse regardless of completion percentage.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:51 PM ^
Cade’s inability to hit a pass over 20 yards with consistency is what will lead to him becoming the 2nd string qb regardless of his completion percentage or lack of turnovers. The offense will eventually have to leave him behind to become what they need to be to compete with the more elite programs. Personally I like him and I think he is a good leader but ultimately he’s a game manager.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:54 PM ^
My expectations in today's game was to see Cade improve his longer passes. He had at least three long throws and he missed on all of them. The sample size is large enough season to date to make a judgment that he isn't getting it done on these 20yd or longer passes.
It is now crunch time with MSU next. Their QB can throw long and hit those very good receivers. At this time, advantage MSU on the longer passing game. Unless our RB can gash MSU more often than not, it can't be left up to the U-M defense to win the game.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:36 PM ^
He can't throw touchdowns.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:13 PM ^
I agree. I mean, it’s absurd watching this game and watching Cade continuing to get snaps in the 4th.
October 23rd, 2021 at 5:17 PM ^
Some of these are appallingly lazy takes. If you watch his highlights, it’s clear that McNamara can throw the ball. We just haven’t really needed to throw the ball downfield this year.
McNamara doesn’t have the same zip as McCarthy does, but McCarthy also has a penchant for overthrows and to throw into traffic.
Maybe some of you weren’t old enough to remember the Brady vs. Henson quarterback crisis, but Henson came in with similar hype to McCarthy and a certain portion of the fan base was frequently calling for Brady’s benching.
Initially, we tried a two-QB system, but Brady kept outplaying Henson. Henson wasn’t bad or anything; however, Brady was so efficient that it became apparent the team had a better shot to win with him.
At the end of the day, there are just some Michigan fans who like to be entertained more than winning.
October 24th, 2021 at 1:36 AM ^
So McNamara is Tom Brady, got it.
Your argument blows, most of all because the game is not the same as it was back then. McCarthy is an electric mobile QB with a strong arm. That’s what you need to win these days. We aren’t comparing two pro style guys like Brady and Henson. Moreover, Brady was a senior with a full year of starting under his belt, whereas Henson was a freshman. Even then, Brady and Henson had similar college numbers and the QB debate only looks dumb in hindsight because one of those guys became the GOAT and the other flamed out with the Yankees.
October 24th, 2021 at 8:26 PM ^
You’ve seen 20 passes and around 10 rushes from JJ, yet you think that’s a meaningful sample size to make a change? There is nothing objective or rational about your argument.
“electric mobile QB with a strong arm. That’s what you need to win these days”
Right, so that’s why Jalen Hurts, Tua, Mac Jones, and Joe Burrow were never successful, right? Their teams would have been better if they all ran a 4.5 40-yard dash and had cannons for arms. Maybe their teams could have even won titles. After all, those two things are what you need to win today.
Also, you really just call Henson a “pocket passer”? That’s interesting, but it really demonstrates again that you can’t separate scheme from ability and tendencies. Henson was probably faster then than McCarthy is now. Also, reducing Henson’s tendency to scramble was an emphasis he was constantly coached on. He was far from a “pocket passer”.
At the end of the day, I’m glad that people like you don’t run the program, or we would probably have a losing record right now and be hitting up the transfer portal for Spencer Rattler.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:19 PM ^
Jim’s QB’s don’t get better as the season goes period. Averaging 4.65 per pass attempt trying to look like Jared Goff.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:45 PM ^
I didn’t downvote, but I think this is too simplistic of a take.
Rudock got better, Speight made improvements despite limitations, Shea switched systems, but was okay (and might’ve limited himself).
Michigan hasn’t really had a super talented guy until JJ. If you want to blame Harbaugh for anything, it would be recruiting, but that could be improving. imo.
October 23rd, 2021 at 7:25 PM ^
Yeah, rudddddooooocccckkkkk never existed.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:20 PM ^
Where did the game thread go?
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:20 PM ^
Just switch the damn qb. What is it going to take. I have seen JJ throw a 55 yard dime.
October 23rd, 2021 at 6:11 PM ^
Your downvoters seem to be content winning games against the teams that are ranked lower than we are, and losing games against the better teams. Incidentally that means Ohio State every year.
Ohio State will not be beaten with just ok QB play. Every game JJ doesn't start is one fewer that he starts in a Michigan jersey. To see him on the sideline halfway into this game just sucks.
October 23rd, 2021 at 9:37 PM ^
“Every game JJ doesn't start is one fewer that he starts in a Michigan jersey.” Well that’s every college player. Just what happens.
Being at the game today I was talking with some people around and everyone was surprised by how high a completion percentage he had today because it felt like he missed more. The ball also looked a bit slower when Cade was throwing it. Seemed strange seeing it in person.
I believe and it seems that Cade is a really smart player. I believe that is a huge reason why he is the starting qb. It does seem sometimes that Harbaugh favors the older players but I have to just assume the coaches are seeing something in practice to play it this way.
October 23rd, 2021 at 10:42 PM ^
The reality is that we started the season unranked with few games we were “supposed to win”. Most of us would have been thrilled with 8-10 wins after what we saw in 2020.
If you’re already lost perspective, then I feel bad for you.
October 23rd, 2021 at 10:44 PM ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cade is a “good” QB, JJ is a potential NFL starter… don’t delay the inevitable
October 23rd, 2021 at 7:23 PM ^
And I've seen uncle Rico throw one over them there mountains. Let's start uncle rico..
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:24 PM ^
Special teams has been the strength of this team all year.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
Harbaugh QB’s age more like carrion than wine.
October 24th, 2021 at 10:20 AM ^
FYI - you always get downvoted by folks because you're myopically focused on negativity. Your comments in the thread of a 33 - 7 win sound more like a loss
I just hope life gets better for you. I can tell you're hurting
October 24th, 2021 at 12:07 PM ^
I really don’t care about downvotes (and talking about them is a no no). People can pretend that Harbaugh has been successful at producing quarterbacks if that’s what they’d like to do. But eventually this late October and November is going to go the way of the last, what, four or five out of six? Jim’s .500 against MSU, and if I remember the graphic from the game correctly, he’s just above .500 in November at Michigan. Most of those loses involve a quarterback or offense playing poorly (not at lot of narrow loses in shoot outs under Harbaugh).
That’s the reality of where the program has been and is.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
McNamara is a game manager with moxy. That’s what Harbaugh wants with this team.
October 24th, 2021 at 1:39 AM ^
A game manager with moxy won’t beat OSU or even MSU. JJ probably won’t either but at least there would be hope.
October 23rd, 2021 at 2:46 PM ^
If dominating the vast majority of quarters you play and getting to 7-0 is "not bad," then yeah I'm probably OK with reaching a level of "not bad" that almost every other fanbase nationally would die for
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:03 PM ^
I thought Harbaugh did a pretty good job with Speight. He played much of the 2016 season with a bad shoulder, and that really hurt the offense against Iowa and OSU. McCarthy should be successful. I just wish he'd get more playing time. The offense is more explosive when he's in.
October 23rd, 2021 at 9:25 PM ^
Do you think that’s been because of our play, or the competition we’ve faced? I’m asking that question honestly. It’s possible to win games, be happy that the team won, but still question how good the team is actually playing. Teams that consistently win often do it, believe it or not. There’s a reason Saban goes after his team in the media after “dominant” wins sometimes. We have a talent advantage against the majority of teams in our conference. We should win these games more often than not. We have left way too many plays on the field against the inferior competition we are facing. Stop taking the end result of a game and building a narrative off that. Your eyes aren’t lying to you.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:07 PM ^
Speight lost that game for Michigan with his picks
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:39 PM ^
He also had a broken collarbone.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:31 PM ^
Harbaugh has certainly been good at making talented QBs appear to become less talented over time.
October 23rd, 2021 at 10:32 PM ^
All they’ve done is beat up on crap all year. Being 7-0 is pretty meaningless when the Big Ten is having a down year and our QB continues to get worse from game to game.
October 24th, 2021 at 1:46 AM ^
I’m as happy as anyone that Michigan didn’t lose to Washington and Wiscy but let’s face it, Washington is not good and Wiscy has worse QB problems than Michigan. I predicted Michigan would go 7-5 and Harbaugh would part ways with the program. If they go 9-3 or 10-2 with yet another convincing loss to OSU, are we just delaying the inevitable?
People on this board like to mockingly pretend Michigan fans have such massive expectations: news flash you cunts, Michigan has lost 15 of 16 games to OSU. I’d like to enter that game again someday with confidence. If Harbaugh willingly plays Cade over JJ I honestly don’t think he will ever beat OSU.
October 24th, 2021 at 12:34 PM ^
Get ready for the downvotes. They’re coming.
Jim will finish the season 10-2 at best with a blowout loss to OSU, will keep his job, and we’ll be in the same position next season. “Delaying the inevitable” is right.
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:36 PM ^
I started to read this and stopped when I realized it was going nowhere
October 23rd, 2021 at 3:40 PM ^
Stop being a bitch and enjoy the win.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:08 PM ^
I agree. Seriously, Michigan won but people are looking for crap to complain about.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:36 PM ^
This post just really, really sucks.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:37 PM ^
Harbaugh's QBs,
I hate bees.
Say please,
I gotta sneeze.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:38 PM ^
What kind of emotional swing does it take to go from:
this team won't win 7 games this year!
to
this 7-0 team must win the CFP!
Must be exhausting.
Maybe this is just a team that's gonna keep winning, even though they never convince us beforehand that they can win the big one till they win the big one.
GoBlue!
October 23rd, 2021 at 9:09 PM ^
That’s where I guess the disconnect is. I never thought we wouldn’t win 7 games. I thought last year was an outlier. OSU recruits the best, and we are on par w/ PSU for second. Those are the 3 teams that should win the most, year in and year out, IMO (relative to divisions/strength of schedule, etc). From there, it’s a coaching issue. To be clear, when everybody was calling for Harbaugh’s head, I wanted him to stay simply due to thinking that we can’t get a better option right now. I still believe that. I think he’s been good here, all things considered.
I also believe that if JJ isn’t starting then that means he hasn’t given the coaching staff the confidence that he can make the right reads in practice, b/c we know Harbaugh isn’t scared to pull the trigger on a new QB. Cade might very well be further along than JJ, I just don’t see how that isn’t an indictment on the coaching staff at this point.
October 23rd, 2021 at 4:41 PM ^
I agree. Every QB who plays here gets worse.
October 23rd, 2021 at 6:07 PM ^
Reading through the game thread
There was your mistake.