Dropping a recruit may be a net positive for them

Submitted by kawter on
Hear me out before you throw stones 
 
 
At the end of the day, I'm moderately convinced that getting exposure and accepting an offer from Michigan will raise a HS athletes perceived value (as likely being evidenced by Rashad Weaver)
 
The alternative of never offering the kid in the first place may in fact end up resulting in him going to a "worse" school or not having the caché he would have with committing to Michigan. 
 
I admit it isn't the best process and probably an emotional train wreck for the kids but I have to believe having them offered by Michigan, accepting, and being let go will land them better opportunities than never being offered in the first place. 
 
I'm curious to have someone debunk this...
 
 
 
*edited* foobar title to slightly less foobar

In reply to by King Douche Ornery

kawter

January 29th, 2016 at 9:29 AM ^

Delta to from SNA to DTW via SLC.

Was wearing a MICHIGAN hat and he grinned. I said "that was a tough game... His response "it was tough because we made it tough". Confident but surprisingly cocky.



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ChuckieWoodson

January 28th, 2016 at 4:22 PM ^

Probably doesn't hurt their chances of landing somewhere else especially now with JH at the helm.  I see your reasoning and don't disagree.

Not really a bad thought, but the MgoCommunity won't let ya get away with a thread like this.  It's alright man, everyone on here usually gets completely blasted for a thread post every now and again.

Blue since day 1

January 28th, 2016 at 4:22 PM ^

is gonna commit to us... we will drop him... nothing will change with how much teams want him. Your point exposed.

Reader71

January 28th, 2016 at 11:50 PM ^

Your idea is very stupid. It acts as if the kid has no agency or preference at all. Why not just enter everyone into a lottery? Whichever school pulls their name gets the player. At least he's getting a full ride and a uniform. Net positive! His choices be damned.

grumbler

January 29th, 2016 at 6:56 AM ^

I think the controversy centers around not the offers (every school makes offers they have to rescind as the process matures) but he acceptance of the committment, and the subsequent pulling of the offer.  If a kid gets a Michigan offer, that's good for his stock with other schools.  If a kid gets a Michigan offer publically pulled, that's bad for his stock - probably worse than never being offered.  If the school accepts the kid's commitment, then the subsequent pull of the offer can't be private. That hurts the kid (because other programs are going to wonder why the offer was pulled) and the school (because other recruits are going to understand that the school's word is meaningless).

Moral:  don't accept a kid's offer to commit to you if you aren't sure you want to commit to him.  Offer away, but don't accept those commitments.

Yeoman

January 29th, 2016 at 1:14 PM ^

What's an offer, if it doesn't imply a willingness to accept a commitment? I'll admit the "noncommitable offer" is better than offering with intent to pull, but what was wrong with the old public expression of interest, with the offer to follow if and when it was serious?

Maison Bleue

January 29th, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^

I was in Northern California for a wedding last September and had my first Pliny the Elder on draft at Russian River. It was so f'ing good, maybe the best IPA I have ever had. They make some really solid wine barrel aged sours as well.

I spent $500 to ship 4 cases of Elder and a case of mixed sours home to Michigan. Needless to say, my wife was pissed, but all my friends treated me like a goddamned hero. It was worth every penny.

Have you ever had a Pliny the Younger? I hear it's the Bee's knees.

Huss

January 28th, 2016 at 4:39 PM ^

what you've just said... Is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

King Douche Ornery

January 28th, 2016 at 5:04 PM ^

"The Bad Things That Happen When Message Board Guy Thinks"

 

Seriously, 99% of this board's posters should just go back to earning sissy points by upvoting people and posting things like, "Love Harbaugh, the future looks bright!"

ItsGreatToBe

January 28th, 2016 at 5:07 PM ^

I admit it isn't the best process and probably an emotional train wreck for the kids but I have to believe having them offered by Michigan, accepting, and being let go will land them better opportunities than never being offered in the first place. 

 

So, what you're implying is that we should instill a bad process that is emotionally harmful to kids just so that they can build their resume in hopes that they don't go to a "worse" school (by whatever arbitrary metric is used to judge quality).

 

Basically, we waste our time and effort to insult the intelligence of high school kids while bursting open the Pandora's box that is the 24-hour news cycle and we can't tell our side of the story.

 

I'm sure that in the history of mankind there have been worse ideas, but the only one that comes to mind is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_boy_hoax

kawter

January 28th, 2016 at 5:54 PM ^

Not necessarily..


What I'm implying is that the process is broken any way you slice it. And not Harb's process but college recruiting in general. With that as a given, my point was maybe the ingestion were encountering about this "dropping kids on their heads" (/s) process may not actually be a net negative thing for the kids in the equation. The broken process and is picking up kids we may not sign, just to let them go, may actually serve them better then if they were never offered to begin with.



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UGLi

January 28th, 2016 at 11:22 PM ^

I can see the reasoning. It's probably better publicity and marketing to have been a part of Michigan's class at some point than to never have been offered at all.
Like it's better to have been a Harvard drop out than someone who outright got rejected.
Or it's preferable to have dated a Victoria's Secret model and have been dumped than to have never come close to laying eyes on one.




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UMForLife

January 28th, 2016 at 6:15 PM ^

It is like a football player dating a dork in college just so she can be popular. There are many movies like this. They always end with Football player(or the popular student) realizing what an awesome girl the dork was. People love these kind of stories and happy ending. People will not understand your logic and will hate it. So, this cannot be won. I am sure Michigan is not trying to provide a bump in their recruiting.

Squeezebox

January 28th, 2016 at 6:53 PM ^

I think that JH could have saved himself (& UM) a lot of grief, if he had been up front with these recruits from the beginning.

We all like to talk about being Michigan Men, but Harbaugh was treating the lower ranked recruits as kiddies.  Cutting all contact for several months and they are supposed to magically channel that UM has put them on the back burner, just in case.  These young men are just entering the adult world and still take everything they are told literally.  Thus the recent hiccups and bad press.

Why not just treat them as adults and say that we are giving you an offer, but we may need the roster spot later.  So have a backup plan, just in case.  In the mean time, you will be put on the recruiting map and get offers that you never would have had otherwise.  Win - win for all parties.

Also, as we have seen, things have evolved greatly since JH was at Stanford.  With TwitterWorld and the increasing microscope put on the recruiting process, nothing stays hidden very long and the backlash goes viral.

Most likely, either Hackett or Manuel will tweak the system next year and with another good year on the field, this sort thing will no longer be needed.

Wolfman

January 29th, 2016 at 3:05 AM ^

because any player receiving an offer from a recognized "expert" as to evaluation of talent will almost alway result in a player who is a  non-kicker receiving an almost obligatory bump from a 2* to a 3* and suddenly schools, as you suggest, who were not looking at the young man prior to his offer from one of the recognized schools whose success is precicated on their ability to target, evaluate and acquire talent, might suddenly take an interest.

So I cannot argue with your premise that the recruit can only benefit, and that is due to nothing more than possibly not even having an offer. If he is fortunate enough to receive an offer from a P5 school prior to receiving an offer from a lesser school, he is a receipient of a rare gift; scenarios of this type are obviously very rare.

There are times when coaches actually find a diamond in the rough. In cases such as this, it is more likely the recruit will have no ranking at all simply because he has not appeared on the radar, usually due to not attending camps where the separation begins and also result in many kids receiving offers and those who answer the obvious questions, based on their performance, will often receive offers and this is where fhe fun starts. I recall one year at W.VA when RR sent three OLmen to the pros. One was the Remmington(maybe Rimmington) Award Receipient and was rated a 3 star coming in. The other two received no ranking at all, due I am almost certain, to their lack of exposure.

This is why I like Jim's idea for these satellite camps because they are affordable and in addition to increasing the size of the Michigan footprint, many of the kids do receive offers to schools that may not be of the FBS level, but with exposure being the main objective and the players loving the idea of receiving coaching from the recognized best, it's pretty much a win-win. In the senario you provide, yes, the young man can and obviously in the case of Weaver, even though he had no bitch against UM or Harbaugh, someone was pulling the strings, as he stated, but the schools that offered would not have done so if they had not seen something they like. Scholarships are simply too valuable to be tossed about freely.

The danger to the school making the offer is real too, in the form of bad press as we saw. These young men who go from one offer, possibly, to receiving one from a P5 school are not aware of how the process normally works and in this case, where schools normally are able to deliver their message by cutting off contact, much like what occurs in the private sector when a would be employer cools on a prospective employee, It's understandable, I guess, because incidents of this nature are rare and players at a level where they receive offers from the "who's who" of cfb are fully aware of the fluidity of the situation and realize schools that offer but basically quit recruiting are sending a message. Unless its their dream school, not much is made of it due to their status of being highly coveted. I was surprised at some of the fan's reaction, thinking that an offer, if accepted, basically constituted a binding agreement, although they have seen many prosepects commit and decommitt over and over through the whole process.

While it's good to let a prospect know early in the process, unless you are certain he has answered all your questions, through camp performances, developing a relationship where both the recruit and the recruiters concerns are addressed and forming a bond, we saw the negative ramifications that could occur if you make an early offer and the young man decides the recruiting process is over. I am sure changes will be made going forward, but I hope Jim continues these satelitte camps because its good PR for the school, and as I said, it does provide exposure many of these young men would not otherwise receive due to the high cost of some of these camps. I really have no idea why SEC coaches have a problem with them. They are aware of all the players they are interested in and if a young man receives an offer to an FCS school, they should be happy for the young man. Hell, Bama and LSU and Clemson for that matter aren't going to be hurt by these mini camps. It's obvious, the positive press Harbaugh receives due to hosting these satelitte camps are what these other coaches object to.

Now SEC schools have offered such a high number of players for so long, it's rare when we hear something of the nature we heard from Weaver. Meyer, coming from the SEC, does the same thing but the majority of his offers will go to young men who receive the same from Bama, LSU, MI, ND, USC, etc., so in most cases it's the recruits game. But I think your contention makes absolute sense. Hell, we only have to look at one instance and the fact he received the majority of offers after his announced decommittment, indicates the majority of the schools would not have watched his tape if not for the publicity his decommit generated.
 

Yeoman

January 29th, 2016 at 1:24 PM ^

I thought the reason those offers came so late is that (1) he had committed very early and (2) few if any of those schools would have thought they had a chance in hell to sway him away from a Michigan commitment once it had been made.

It's not unusual for an early commit to have a lean-looking offer list, especially if the commitment was to a top program.