A couple crystal balls each for Jerod and Jacob Smith to flip to Kentucky
just perusing 247 for some recruiting news during another depressing Tigers game. Not looking good for a couple recruits on the D Line. Predictions submitted by Wiltfong and Dohn.
https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/CurrentTargetPredictions/
August 15th, 2023 at 10:24 PM ^
Fuck, what the hell is happening to our recruiting? We started out white hot, then cooled down, and now are looking at decommits.
August 15th, 2023 at 10:28 PM ^
Could it be that recruits think Harbaugh is leaving for the NFL after this year because of the NCAA bullshit?
EDIT: For those downvoting me because you think I was being sarcastic, I wasn't. I see how it could come off that way, but my question was sincere. Is Harbaugh's NCAA issues being used against him in recruiting? The timing is curious, no?
August 15th, 2023 at 10:47 PM ^
Just a short fact-check on that: He's done that each of the last two years, this year despite a promise not to. And in neither case was his punishment for lying to the NCAA on the table.
And, lest we forget, he once again said he'll stay at Michigan as long as the school would have him after the NFL dalliance this year.
I know it's not popular to point out here, but these integrity lapses; he's made his own situation worse.
August 15th, 2023 at 11:05 PM ^
Not sure I concur with all your facts, but my point is, as you mention, the NCAA issue is in addition to the usual speculation about him leaving for the NFL. Recent events seem to be conspiring to give such speculation more weight. Is that the reason for the recent spate of decommitments and recruiting losses? Dunno.
August 15th, 2023 at 11:42 PM ^
I doubt it has anything to do with the NCAA issues. Everyone has been poking fun at the NCAA, including Pete Finebaum of all people. The recruits know its not a big deal. There has to be a different reason or reasons for the flip.
August 16th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
If it looks like a duck….
Quick quack! Name five football players that have played for Kentucky.
August 16th, 2023 at 2:27 PM ^
Jared Lorenzen and the four people he ate.
August 16th, 2023 at 3:19 PM ^
That made me giggle out loud and the funny thing is I was thinking about Lorenzen and could not remember his name.
August 16th, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^
This was my thought. I think he will have had enough of the NCAA BS and leave.
August 16th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^
People should say what they think and not be concerned about down votes. This site isn’t a popularity contest.
I couldn’t care less about a down vote from people I don’t know.
Anyway the Harbaugh to the NFL thing could be the reason this is snowballing in the wrong direction.
Harbaugh should’ve just taken his lumps and moved on. His attitude and position have probably hurt the Michigan program more than his minor offenses.
It ain’t looking good. After what this team has accomplished the last two seasons losing commitments left and right and having to justify going to three stars is pretty pitiful.
Down vote time.
August 16th, 2023 at 7:46 PM ^
Don't tell me what to do
August 15th, 2023 at 10:40 PM ^
Wait, but I've read on this board time and time and time again that that was all just BS rumors conjured up by hack Kentucky bloggers with no connections whatsoever!!
August 15th, 2023 at 10:50 PM ^
It's pretty obvious these kids just committed for the free burgers.
I mean Kentucky has a whole state full of fried chicken.
How are we supposed to compete with that?!?
August 16th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^
Very little of what you read on here is accurate. Lots of wishful thinking, candy coated , entitled and inaccurate comments.
That’s how you get up votes
August 15th, 2023 at 11:19 PM ^
All schools have kids change their mind and the fact we were number 1 had every one on here thinking we were going to stay there or top 3. If we continue to be a top 7 in recruiting and continue to have the eye for talent that others don't see right away and we can develop them like we do we will be fine. We are never going to be top 3 until we are dirty like the others. Also we will most likely have to take a few bad eggs if we want all the 5 star talent. I personally don't want that.
August 15th, 2023 at 11:46 PM ^
"We are never going to be top 3 until we are dirty like the others" Stop with this nonsense. It's called NIL and it's not illegal. Accept what we are, but let's not pretend like we're being finessed. What's frustrating is we can't continue to count on "doing more with less." I believe in our program/culture/player development, but you have to be little concerned with our latest recruiting debacle and all the while being 2x Big ten Champ and Playoffs.
August 16th, 2023 at 1:14 AM ^
Can you please clarify the guidelines / rules that govern NIL? IIRC - pay for play is prohibited.
It reminds me of that old SEC saying.. “if you ain’t cheating - you ain’t trying”.
August 16th, 2023 at 4:39 AM ^
It's called NIL and it's not illegal.
Paying recruits to come to your school actually IS still illegal. Pay for play is against the rules. But the NCAA is busy investigating burgers instead of six figure payments to 17 year olds.
August 16th, 2023 at 6:16 AM ^
Bad assumption. I never mentioned pay for play. I am, however, suggesting that our NIL pitch or lack there of is just not compelling enough to these recruits. As per other programs. I'm not qualified to intelligently respond to what they're offering, but obviously the delta is significant. If we take these big swings and miss, perhaps we can be critical on our strategy and change. We can't continue to expect a different outcome with same strategy.
August 16th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
100% on point
August 16th, 2023 at 6:18 PM ^
But you did mention pay for play. You just didn’t say the words “pay for play.” Pitching your NIL in a way that promises money to recruits for committing to your school IS pay for play. It IS against the rules.
August 16th, 2023 at 7:04 PM ^
Pitching NIL does not equate to "guarantee money." It could be a pro forma basis. I don't know. I've admitted as much. Do I believe some programs are conducting in bad faith? Absolutely. I don't know the intricacies. But, I have to believe, after blazing hot start, these latest misses and decommits have to garner some strategic re-evaluation.
August 16th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
You got it almost totally wrong. It's NOT illegal to pay players. Frame it however you choose, it's just not.
They're not investigating JH for burgers. You look foolish when you say that. They're investigating him for CHEATING, specifically having recruits on campus during a dead period and coaching outside of the allowed parameters. The irony that you tried to play the "everybody cheats except us" card while we're being investigated for cheating is deafening.
We also have players getting six figures. It's only bad when they're 17??
August 16th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
I welcome correction if I have my facts wrong here, but didn't the two young men in question come to campus on their own, and happened to decide to try to meet with Harbaugh once they were in town?
Yes, a guy following the rules to the letter would have said "sorry gents, this is a dead period, I can't meet with you until Date X. If you need a lunch rec, I know where you can get a great burger. Enjoy your stay in our lovely city, and I'll call you as soon as NCAA regs say I can."
but that's not what happened. while it's a little disingenuous to say the whole thing is over a cheeseburger, it's also a bit silly to say "it's cheating". ultimately, one has to view this in perspective of the larger NCAA Regulations landscape, and given what other programs are doing out in the open, it seems absurd that the NCAA is going after Michigan for this.
or, more specifically, it seems the NCAA is looking for a punishment bigger than 4 games, if that's what's really behind their decision to reject the 4-game resolution.
August 16th, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^
Actually, It IS a violation of the rules to promise a recruit money if he commits to your school.
Also, you're missing the point about Harbaugh & hamburgers. It's the fact that these rink-a-dink violations are being investigated while much greater violations are being ignored by the NCAA. It's the equivalent of the cops pulling over the guy going 66 MPH while the cars going 100 MPH go scot-free.
August 16th, 2023 at 6:28 PM ^
Well nobody said it’s illegal to pay players. It IS however, illegal to pay recruits to come to your school. “Come here and we’ll set up $500k in NIL” is against the rules. Plain and simple.
They’re definitely investigating him for burgers. “Cheating” is laughable.
August 16th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
Simply because some contorted loophole was just created to make a type of activity "legal" does not mean it is no longer "dirty".
Legality and ethics are two different considerations.
August 16th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
It's "unethical" for the long exploited workers who generate billions to now share in that revenue? (Albeit pennies on the dollar)
Hmmmkay
August 16th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^
Curious definition of "exploited" you have... most people might equate that term to children working in sweatshops, women/children coerced into human trafficking, starving in forced labor camps, etc.
I'm not certain that many people would consider kids right out of high school getting free educations from premier academic institutions, world class athletic training and development, free room & board, national television exposure, free healthcare, living stipends and all of the perks and benefits associated with that - *guaranteed for four years even if they play poorly or are injured* - as being "exploited".
August 16th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
I agree that "exploited" is too strong of a word but you are painting a very tainted and biased picture as well.
- These athletes risk career ending and even life changing injuries on a daily basis to earn those scholarships. The long term impact on their bodies and brains is only now being researched in detail.
- The schools, coaches, administrators, staffers, merchandisers and media partners at schools like Michigan have been earning hundreds of millions of dollars per year off the fruits of the players' efforts (in particular the top 20 or so players on the team).
- Across the country just football, the number is in the billions. The value of the scholarships and free training is probably $5 - 10 million per year spread across each athlete evenly (not zero but clearly not balanced). The deal was great for non-revenue sports / G5 and lower football players, it is an ok deal for a 3rd stringer at Michigan but massively unfair economically for an All B1G level player.
- Until recently, in order to be eligible, the players were forced to give up the Name, Image and License rights that virtually every other American is guaranteed. This was a huge step towards ending the imbalance.
- Players had no other realistic way to get to the NFL - the ultimate goal for most players at the P5 level. There is no minor league that takes 18 year olds. An effective minor league system would end college football as a cultural phenomenon. Losing most of the top talent would drop football to something resembling college baseball - still fairly popular but at a fraction of the revenue.
August 16th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
" There is no minor league that takes 18 year olds"
False. There are multiple semi-pro leagues that will. There have even been a few NFL players who never played in college.
August 16th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^
Kind of like how it may be technically legal to create a bunch of bots to break a cfb risk game, but it's still pretty dirty
August 16th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^
Whine away about NIL - that likely has nothing to do with the twins. 🥱
Every time someone flips the NIL card is played. That deck is worn out.
Believe it or not maybe some kids see the light about the questionable path Michigan football is going with the Harbaugh drama.
No….that can’t be it right? Who has it better than us?
Well, the way things are currently going………..🤔
August 16th, 2023 at 3:57 PM ^
You are very ill informed as A&M NIL was just disbanded for being illegal as it gave special treatment to those who donated money to it. NIL was never made to be like this and right now there are laws being made that will prohibit pay to commit. The fact people don't know what NIL was really intended to be and act like this paying to commit to schools or talk to transfers who aren't in the portal about how much they will get if they transferred here shows how little you know. It was the NCAA fault for not establishing rules. They made the assumption that schools would use it like it was supposed to be used. In the next couple years there are going to be big changes to it. Even though they use some so called legal loopholes it is still cheating or skirting the system
August 16th, 2023 at 4:42 AM ^
Harbaughs mastered the transfer portal, which fits his nfl style, maybe as much if not more than recruiting. We’ll get highly rated players but they may be on someone else’s roster this year. I’m all for taking young men who have actually developed and are ready to contribute. Recruitings important no doubt, but the portal helps us now, not after a redshirt season.
August 16th, 2023 at 5:42 AM ^
No as stated by those on here that for the past 3 months every miss is because the kid is from that state and not because of any other reasons. Only that every school would have no shit with kids from a different state.
August 16th, 2023 at 6:25 AM ^
As we’ve learned from Mel Tucker, you shouldn’t rely on the transfer portal to build out your team. Plug a few holes? Sure. But recruiting needs to be where the backbone of your team comes from.
August 16th, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^
The possible combination and permutation of variables makes it difficult to really know the real reasons why decisions are made. But one important variable for many kids is early playing time and being the hometown hero. Kentucky can sell starting or playing a lot of snaps as a Freshmen and play against the best in the SEC and go pro after your Junior year. Easier to sell that at Kentucky than at Michigan despite being true or not true.
August 15th, 2023 at 10:25 PM ^
Lol. Something is off w our recruiting lately. I’d be shocked if we even finish top 15
August 15th, 2023 at 10:45 PM ^
Top 15 would be normal for us. Being top 3 (momentarily) was the outlier.
August 15th, 2023 at 10:55 PM ^
I don’t think being top 5 even is a tough ask when you’re back to back big ten champs and playoff appearances in both of those years. But apparently at Michigan, it is. The last two recruiting classes have been a disaster compared to what we should be recruiting at. There’s no sugar coating it, it’s been bad
August 15th, 2023 at 11:13 PM ^
10 years ago we would be having top 5 classes but now with money being paid to players who commit to schools especially the SEC schools or other dirty type of programs Miami it is hard to keep kids from wanting say a new car while playing college football. The NIL has not been used the way it was intended to be used when they made it legal. They made it now they can pay recruits in the open and say it is for NIL. College sports are being ruined by it. Until they implement a rule where it is illegal to pay a recruit to commit then this will happen regularly to schools who don't play the game the wrong way.
August 16th, 2023 at 2:30 PM ^
Do you think players weren’t getting paid 10 years ago? Didn’t Sam Webb love to talk about Clemson offering Rashan Gary 250k in 2015? For whatever reason harbaugh is a mediocre recruiter. The staff obviously have a good eye for talent and development but when they are going against the best recruiting teams for the top players they are generally losing
August 16th, 2023 at 4:02 PM ^
Yes they wer I know that but now every team that wants to do it does it. Years ago Kentucky would never had payed a football player. Nor would Miami come in and steal recruits from us if money wasn't a factor and now they call it legal. Years ago if you got caught being paid your college days were over now it isn't. Instead of the Bamas and OSU and Georgias it is every SEC school except Vandy and many many other schools
August 16th, 2023 at 7:09 PM ^
"now they call it legal"
It's always been legal. It was just against the rules.
August 15th, 2023 at 11:33 PM ^
Winning is a factor, but not enough of a factor to expect to be top-5. Being in the south is huge. Having an NIL cannon is huge. To be top-5 we'd have to beat out Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Texas, Ohio State (amongst others). That's just tough to do from Ann Arbor, MI with a so-so NIL offering.
August 16th, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
When NIL became a thing people on this board were saying the Michigan money cannon would make everything equal, what happened?
August 16th, 2023 at 2:19 PM ^
Great question
Largest alumni base
Most rich peeps
Yada yada yada
August 16th, 2023 at 4:09 PM ^
What don't people understand about the NIL? There are no rules and to me there is the right way for NIL and a dirty way. Maybe some don't agree but I think there is always a right way to do something and a wrong way. Michigan picks the right way and the way it was intended to be used. NIL wasn't supposed to be commit to play and that where I don't get what people don't understand about that. Right now there is no NIL it is just what schools are willing to pony up the money to get players on campus and worry about the after effects. It hasn't worked to well for A&M the first year they forked up 10 of millions of dollars. Now if the NCAA or whoever doesn't come in and set some rules for it and make it be a system where you have to be at a school for say 6months before NIL can be made then Michigan will lag behind. Now if no rules come in and they keep it like it is then Michigan might have to change its ways. Pay every recruit the same or something because I for one would be pissed if a guy I thought I was better then got paid 250000 dollars and I got 5000 dollars then it is going to affect the culture of the team. That's just my thought from seeing it first hand in sports.
August 16th, 2023 at 2:18 PM ^
UM can't match OSU is crap. it is self imposed holier than though attitude by our school.