Comment about UM-osu rivalry vs MI-OH rivalry
Inspired by a comment on a recent thread, but perhaps worthy of its own discussion:
Just a reminder to people that this is sports rivalry *not* about the states of MI vs OH. That is minor & meaningless in the grander scheme of things, especially since Michigan is a school of national (and international) prestige. Nearly half of the student body here comes from out of state - and a large portion of them from OH (more than any other state besides MI). The best students in MI most likely go to Michigan, while the best students in OH... *also* most likely to Michigan. Also note that so many of our most prominent sports alumni were born & raised in OH (Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson, etc.)
Trying to play this up as a rabid inter-state rivalry plays into osu's favor... which is why they are the primary ones who promote the narrative so heavily. They are not really attracting much out-of-state students (relatively speaking) despite it costing less to attend there, so they need to fight to keep their in-state prospective students (& athletes) from leaving.
Don't help them in this.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:09 AM ^
you mean we have to throw these out?
February 4th, 2022 at 10:12 AM ^
Never! I'll be buried in that shirt.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:39 AM ^
It would help if we want to do better recruiting in OH. I'm all for dumping on osu (as are a surprising number of OH residents), but it's harder to convince someone that Michigan is the better choice when we imply that their friends/familes/neighbors/communities all suck.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:26 AM ^
So we have to be kinder and gentler to Ohio?
Yeah, don't think I can do that...
Last time I drove through Ohio, I had my kid with me. Not much of a sports fan, this boy (I sometimes question his lineage). Stopped at a rest area on the OH Turnpike, and said 'what's that smell, it's terrible...' Kid shrugged his shoulders. I said 'oh yeah, we're in Ohio, nevermind...' Kid rolled his eyes...
February 4th, 2022 at 1:10 PM ^
Yeah, I grew up in Toledo, applied to M for both undergrad and grad school (roundly rejected twice, wasn't what they were looking for, apparently; a moderately academic stoner), and still hate on the state of ohio early and often. Gleaning any allegiance to osu, from anyone I meet, wherever I go, still diminishes them for me, and barring some kind of Independence Day-style union against an intergalactic enemy of humanity, I will always negatively appraise the state of ohio and its residents loyal to it.
And as culturally similar as NW ohio is to SE Michigan, I will never be able reconcile the divide between the state itself and osu. And that's just what it is, from my perspective.
Play up the inter-state rivalry; M will attract the people (students, recruits, Nobel laureates, etc.) who understand what M is about.
TLDR; ohio smells.
February 4th, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
I've heard similar from many in NW Ohio. If you buy the ideas expressed in "Eleven Nations" Ohio is historically a mixture of Yankees, Quakers, and ... hillbillies. Obviously 20th-century migrations altered those balances.
February 5th, 2022 at 6:36 PM ^
Yeah the Yankees and Quakers all left.
February 4th, 2022 at 6:22 PM ^
Three stories from this shirt.
1. I was in Arizona and two guys walked up to me and said, “We’re from Ohio!” I didn’t really know what to say and just said, “sorry.” They said, “No, we agree!”
2. I was at Wrigley and an usher said, “What’s so bad about Ohio? I went to the world’s largest square dance (it might have been line dance, I don’t know the difference and am damn proud of it) there!” I said, “Wow, you just proved the point of the shirt.”
3. I was wearing the shirt in Indianapolis. A bunch of people had no clue that the shirt was referencing our sports rivalry and all loved it. Apparently the places that they liked to take their boats regularly have Ohioans that can never properly use the boat launch. They refer to them as FIFOs (fucking idiots from Ohio).
Plenty of good people come from Ohio, but the idea that a disproportionate number of turds live there extends way beyond the rivalry.
February 5th, 2022 at 2:38 AM ^
I used the shirt for my fantasy football logo one year. A coworker of mine from WVU said "hey, you stole our shirt!"
Ohio makes an impression. (And I say this as someone with deep family ties there).
February 4th, 2022 at 10:15 AM ^
My most important takeaway from all this is 42-27. Don't you know? Pump it up.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:20 AM ^
It's lowkey lit af that Aidan single-handedly made this song a Michigan anthem.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:36 AM ^
It actually came from Joel Honigford
February 4th, 2022 at 10:39 AM ^
Good thing we have him back.
February 4th, 2022 at 2:15 PM ^
I like to imagine the artist (Endor, apparently?) watching their song blow up with hundreds of thousands of streams from south eastern Michigan and saying WTF???
February 4th, 2022 at 12:20 PM ^
No, but Aidan did manifest the outcome in his mind for all of us to enjoy!
February 4th, 2022 at 10:20 AM ^
797 days.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:39 AM ^
We can take back Toledo. My understanding is that war was never really settled (from our standpoint).
February 4th, 2022 at 12:18 PM ^
I think that means you have to give the UP to Wisconsin.
February 4th, 2022 at 3:01 PM ^
was about to upvote but noticed that you were at 42...just couldn't bring myself to ruin that. cheers!
February 4th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
There is definitely an interstate rivalry that is older than the schools rivalry and probably helped the schools become the rivals they are. I grew up just across the border in Michigan and the closest town was in Ohio so I spent a lot of time there. It's usually pretty playful in nature but there for sure is a rivalry!
February 4th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
We want Toledo back!
February 4th, 2022 at 10:20 AM ^
no, no we don't . we got the UP in exchange. that's like trading your '76 vega for a '19 diesel crew 4 x 4. they can keep toledo.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
We got the western 1/3 of the UP in exchange for Toledo - not the whole thing. Maybe a fair exchange, maybe not... but Wisconsin was the real loser of the MI-OH battle.
I've lived in Toledo for over a decade - it is almost as much MI as it is OH (with a large UM following).
February 4th, 2022 at 10:47 AM ^
The western 1/3 of the UP is the best part. Lake Gogebic, lake of the clouds , copper Harbor and Paulding. Breathe taking in the fall, and winter + it's just as much Wisc as it is Michigan.. packer fans everywhere.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:13 AM ^
Truth. My wife is from WI and is very salty about the UP being part of Michigan.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
I spent a weekend in Toledo last summer and came away thinking Toledo is super underrated. The Mudhens are fun and the art museum is world class.
Michigan still won that trade going away, but it's not like Toledo's awful. Sort of like how everybody bemoans the Tigers trading Smoltz to Atlanta, but forget that Doyle Alexander was lights out on the way to winning the division. Yes, Atlanta got the better end of that, but the Tigers got exactly what they wanted out of it too.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
A buddy and I meet there every spring for a Hens game. Far as I'm concerned, I'd rather go there than Comerica. Maybe a little further away, but it's easy to get to, tickets are cheaper, parking is easier, the food is better, and Yuengling is on tap. What's not to like?
And totally agree on the Smoltz trade. The Tigers needed a veteran starter in 1987, paid a price, got just what they needed, and won the division by a game. Besides, it's not like anyone knew at the time what Smoltz would become. I don't remember anyone saying in 1987 that he was a future HOF'er. It's all 20/20 hindsight.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:35 AM ^
I spent a week in Toledo one day.
February 4th, 2022 at 4:20 PM ^
John Denver
February 4th, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
True on Smoltz -- look at his record prior to 1988, when he made a huge leap:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=smoltz001joh
Did Atlanta know that was going to happen? Likely not.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:12 AM ^
Oh most def keep the UP! But details don’t matter in a hot debate with Ohio
February 4th, 2022 at 10:22 AM ^
This is a sports blog. I want all the top athletes from every state and country to come to UM.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:26 AM ^
Woody made it about the states.
Woody quotes: "I don't buy one drop of gas in Michigan." and "We don't give a damn for the whole state of Michigan."
Jarrett Irons summed it up best for me before The Game in 2019. "Fuck them. I don’t know how else to put that. For my job, I work in Toledo a lot. I have to do overnights, and I will not stay in Toledo. I’m not staying in Ohio. I’m dead serious. I’m entertaining late for my job, I don’t care what it is, I’m not staying in that state. I cannot stand them. I can’t stand that state, and I’m from Texas. It’s deep-rooted. It’s that feeling. You listen to the fans, it drives me nuts. What happened last year ruined Thanksgiving for me. I played in the (John) Cooper years; that’s all that needs to be said.”
There's no stopping it now.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
Of course Woody made it about the state - it helped his cause far more than ours!
It plays into their advantage to pit it as state vs state. We need to promote the fact that *our* school transcends petty state rivalries and is a *national* program - as reflected by our academic & athletic recruiting.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:45 AM ^
It’s hard to believe now but there was a time when OSU fans actually had a healthy, respectful attitude to the rivalry. Ohio Stadium has maize and blue tiles in our honor. The Columbus crowd gave Tom Harmon an ovation for his performance.
Then Dr. Strange Hayes came and informed the population of Ohio that they were at war with Michigan and they all had to do their part - down to harassing Michigan fans who dared to visit Columbus.
I’m sure the rivalry would have gotten more intense regardless, but it’d be nice if Michigan fans going there didn’t have to worry about their car being keyed, hooligans threatening them in the streets or police pulling them over for having Michigan plates.
February 4th, 2022 at 3:26 PM ^
I saw the maize and blue tiles in Ohio Stadium. I did not believe the story, but then damn, there they were. They are definitely maize and blue in an otherwise red and gray place.
And it looks like they are well maintained. It's not like they are covering them up.
February 4th, 2022 at 4:29 PM ^
The "hooligans" are a disgrace to our fanbase... I take no pride in someone damaging someone's property simply because they are from Michigan. They're stupid, plain and simple.
With that said, I lived and worked in AA for four years, you guys are not without your share of "hooligans" as well. Every fan base has idiots, to act like one does and another doesn't is either complete delusion, or complete idiocy.
As for reasoning, I guess, read your own blog and the comments. I'd love to know the percentage of UM fans that talk down to Ohio State grads that are actually UM grads, versus the Wal-Mart Wolverines clinging to an academic prestige they had no part of. My experience in AA and the surrounding areas...lots of them. When someone talks down to you due to a piece of paper they hold (or worse, don't hold), it's not a surprise that that person is really, really going to dislike you. Just my .02.
February 4th, 2022 at 8:31 PM ^
I have come to really appreciate Ohio and NE Ohio in particular and there are a lot of admirable OSU grads and fans around here but the idea that the behavior of the two fan bases is similar or even somewhat symmetrical is ludicrous. Happy to be a Wolverine.
February 5th, 2022 at 7:30 AM ^
Let me guess, you’re really saying “I have never been harassed by a Michigan fan, therefore there are no bad Michigan fans”? Trust me, there are complete and utter morons on both sides of the rivalry. Just because one doesn’t affect you, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
February 5th, 2022 at 12:42 PM ^
BTW, I love your posts in general…you are a great part of this community. I agree there is bad behavior on both sides. From my perspective there is a little more on the part of some OSU fans. I will say that until this year Michigan's inability to win the big game had really started to dampen their fervor…
February 6th, 2022 at 6:45 AM ^
they do exist, even for michigan, but ours in number and intensity pale in comparison to yours. read brian's front page article from about a decade ago when some buckeyes attacked brian's crippled friend outside the ohio stadium. it will make your blood boil. the stories that follow that are legion.
this year we met some nice ohio fans before the game, and i mean it, they were pretty cool. we were talking to two older ohio fans and this general topic came up. one of them said, 'we don't go to our (ohio's) own games because the fans are too out of control'.
at a michigan game you might get flipped off. bad but mild behavior. at an ohio game, you'll get beers tossed, physically attacked, tires slashed, keyed car, etc. huge difference, not equivalent, not by a long shot.
February 4th, 2022 at 12:39 PM ^
I lived and worked in Ohio for a summer hosting youth mission trips. The pastor of the church I lived/worked in refused to say the word, "Michigan", instead introducing me to the congregation as from "that state up north".
February 4th, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
Armpit of America. Where Michigan students and fans stop to take a dump--a civilized indoor dump, if possible--between Ann Arbor and the East Coast.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
You probably fail to realize how many Michigan students & alumni live in OH. It is significant.
February 4th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
Checking in!
February 4th, 2022 at 10:40 AM ^
I'm having fun. I too have relatives in Ohio. Despite some odd quirks, I love them.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:08 AM ^
I grew up in Ohio — escaped to Michigan (with two detours in Oklahoma). Besides Cedar Point and the brave Michigan alums/supporters, I compared Ohio to another part of the body…
February 4th, 2022 at 11:15 AM ^
Tony Packos cannot be dismissed..... damn good chilli and the dogs are spot on also.
I believe Toledo would love to be considered Michigan.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:35 AM ^
It's about half-and-half from my experience... maybe 40-60 against at worst.
February 4th, 2022 at 11:56 AM ^
I too grew up in metro Toledo. I’m of a split mind on tony Packo’s. I went to high school with his great grand nephew, who later went to ND and was the leprechaun for two years. The chili dogs barely outweigh the ND thing.
?
ps. He was a great guy in spite of his desire to go to ND.