Athlon ranks Harbaugh #4 Coach in Big Ten
Last year he was. Maybe even lower I hope he bounces back.
In the words of Bill Parcells, "You are what your record says you are."Dec 30, 2008.
It was true then and it's true now.
Ya, but you've got to be able to read between the lines.
Everything is not always black & white. There are 50 shades of gray.
Know what I'm sayin'?
Winning percentages at current school:
Meyer .901
Chryst .821
Harbaugh .718
Dantonio .690
Franklin: 679
Dantonio had some early lean years and gets a recency bump but everyone else has been around a similar period. It's Urban and everyone else, everyone pretty close behind if you consider competition for Chryst is worth a couple games.
I could see Chryst at #3 but not Franklin
Chryst: I'd have him closer to #8 on my list than #3.
His track record at Pittsburgh really wasn't that good. He didn't elevate them. He was 19-19 at Pittsburgh. The Panthers were 24-15 in the 3 years prior to Chryst and they've been 21-17 in the 3 years after him.
He needs some big in-conference wins at Wisconsin. 2015: lost to the 2 other B1G West contenders (Iowa & NW). 2016: 0-3 against OSU, U-M and PSU. Needed OT at home to beat Nebraska in the game that decided the West. 2017: 9-0 in conference but that was primarily a function of the schedule, missed the 3 top teams in the B1G East. Lost in the Title game.
The Miami FLA win in the Orange Bowl was nice, but his resume remains a bit thin (IMO).
JJH is the best coach in football, period.
Success in college and in pros. Took 5-7 team to two straight 10 win seasons and within one inch of the playoffs despite severe ref shenanigans.
As for this ranking, it is useless and intended to work this large fan base into a frenzy for selfish reasons.
There isn't a realistic argument for Harbaugh being the best coach in CFB... Top 5 or 6 maybe. Had Andrew Luck committed to Michigan in a bizzare alternate reality, people would probably still be referring to Hoke the QB whisperer no matter his record since. JH is a great coach and there's zero doubt about that. He's just not the best in college football.
Of course that's true. But a huge (dare I say majority) of our fan base actually believes that he is the best football coach in the world which is why every year we get more "we're going to go 12-0" predictions than we do "we're going to go 8-4". A LOT more.
I dont even know how to pull the archives up anymore but I'd bet you anything that since the inception of this blog the gap between the reality of record at the end of the year and the average predicted record at the beginning of the year is at least 3 wins, sometimes 4.
Much depends on your criteria. I think there is a perfectly realistic argument, especially if you consider extent of rebuild and integrity. Many do not care about these things but I do. Cheating is much less of a factor when evaluating pro coaches, though Patriot critics would disagree.
If Hoke whispers, only DL can understand him. I won’t drag us all into the past decade of history. The blog is too fragile at the moment.
Agreed that context matters. And while I disagree that JH is the best football coach in America I do think he's the best football coach for US right now. I wouldnt trade him for anybody else and I do think he'll work out the issues that have held us back the past couple of years.
Fairly stated. Everything else aside, that is the bottom line.
Don't really care. Simply glad harbaugh's the coach at Michigan, instead of franklin, dantonio or Meyer.
Perfectly stated. Accurate, succinct.
I really don't care.
do u?
Dantonio has a bit of a track record at winning, so I get that. This will be the year where Franklin proves if he's legit or not. People forget just how gawd-awful their offense was before Moorhead arrived, and until proven otherwise Franklin hasn't been shown to be a particularly adroit in-game coach. He's a dynamite recruiter and his recent hires have been fine. But if PSU "stumbles" to 8-9 wins this year, I wouldn't be surprised if it's easily traced back to him having some amazing offensive talent and an OC capable of taking advantage of it in a way that others can't.
DISRESPEKT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
first 3 coaches have at least 1 B1G title to their names
I'm fine with it
Seems about right. JH might have more upside, but at this point, all three of them have done more.
Jim is #1-2 in terms of coaching talent and recruiting prowess. What the other three have over him is they have had their programs better adjusted to college ball over the last three years. In my opinion Jim's coming back down from the NFL, while great in many ways, has also hampered him in that he has projected a level of competence from his staff and players that you just don't get at the college level. This off season has been one of reckoning for him and he is now making the adjustments required to succeed with the talent that the college game gives him. We will be a top program shortly, leaving the two pedophile enabling schools in the dust.
well... if you want to go by results... he may be a little overrated...
so far...
Urban is certainly better. Dantonio and Franklin are not better coaches.
Methinks this is kind of Clickbait.
Start ranking the coaches and you'll see fan bases jump in from all sides. Either 'See! We were right!' if they have a highly ranked coach or 'We were screwed!' for those whose coach wasn't rank highly.
For those whose program is in the crapper, you'll click just to have your anger justified if he's lowly ranked.
Hard to argue. Michigan will underachieve this season as usual.
If I read it as #1 Urbz #2 Mork and #3 Moorhead, then I could buy it. Joe outcoached us with some great talent last year. Mr. F. Hasn't done much to win me over. Can't get over the moment in our 2016 blowout win over him when he literally punted away his competitiveness. I don't think I'll ever see any other James Franklin than that one.
I also agree with the boards assessment that Harbaugh is a better coach than Dantonio, though if we dissect it further Dantonio is better at taking less talent and getting more our of it than just about anyone out there. I also agree with the board that I can't stand the man and while I respect his moneyball, little brother embrace, I really believe he's peaked and is about to be dominated for about the next 5 years, or as long as his health allows him to coach and get wiped constantly.
Fair. Maybe even high if the basis is accomplishments at current location. Chryst and Fitzgerald could be ahead of him if that is the measure.
Meh, it's just a preseason list. I have no problem with this ranking until we actually beat those teams again--which is entirely within the realm of possibility this year.
Based off of results, seems completely fair and there's even a question as to why Chryst isn't ahead of him.
We may not like it, but right now all the "fun" around the program has been thoroughly earned. Hopefully this year changes the narrative.
I don't get the Frankilin love but the others are fine with me. You cant be 1-2 against Dantonio and claim your the better coach. As far as Urban anyone arguing with that should get their heads checked. With that said, Harbaugh can easily move to the top of the list by 2020. Just win and shut up the haters
Let's see how Franklin performs with Moorehead before we proclaim him the better coach. People forget that Franklin was 7-6 both years before Moorehead arrived
People really forget quickly. "The recency bias is strong in that one" - Here "one" refers to the human race.
This year will be a important year to gauge Franklin. I think he actually could win 10 or 11 games but given how bad he was the prior two years, I would guess 8.
JH HAS had a kinda shitty 1.5 years. But he was pretty awesome before that and will be again. Meyer had a 8-5 record at Florida in 2010, so he quit. JH didn't.
PSU's last game without Joe Moorhead was the January 2, 2016 Gator Bowl against Georgia. Ricky Rahne, who will be the OC in 2018, was the interim OC for that game (John Donovan was the OC for the 2015 regular season but was fired after the regular season).
Christian Hackenberg played in the 1st Half. He and the offense were, as typical for that year, awful. Hackenberg got hurt late in the 1st Half.
Trace McSorley thus played the 2nd Half. The offense wasn't a world-beater, but it was noticeably better. PSU trailed 24-3 at a point and lost by 7 with the ball in UGA territory.
We'll see how 2018 goes. But I do think that Moorehead gets a bit too much credit for the difference in PSU's offense in 2015 & 2016. IMO, a significant portion of it was the McSorley/Hackenberg transition. Adding a QB who actually fit Franklin's preferred offensive scheme, and the subtraction of someone who was an "unwilling to learn entitled brat" in 2015.
Plus I think you could argue that PSU outplayed OSU for most of the game in Columbus last year. Despite having somewhat of a talent gap between the 2 teams. Franklin also has beaten the other 3 coaches being discussed(Same for Urban and Dantonio) Whereas, JH still has yet to accomplish that.
The Big Ten title ticket is whats keeping Jim down here. Urban posting the top spot unfortunately makes sense. I believe Jim is a better coach than both Franklin and Mork but, titles.
Urban, Dantonio and Franklin have B1G titles, Harbaugh doesn't. I suspect that is the rationale. Honestly think Paul Chryst is in the discussion for #4 and is a better coach than Fitzgerald.
I think Urban is still the clear #1 but 2-3-4-5 is up for debate. If I had to hire Franklin, Chryst, Fitzgerald or Dantonio I would pick Chryst.
I guess that depends on whether you are looking at their entire coaching career, college coaching career, or B1G coaching career. If you're looking at the whole thing it would be hard to argue against JH who is the only of the 4 to have NFL success. If you're looking only at college I'd put JH #2 behind Urbs. If you're looking at only B1G I'd probably have him #3 slightly edging out Dantonio. All 4 have had very successful B1G tenures.
Jim Harbaugh was obviously a success at the NFL level. He should be proud of that. It's a unique coach that can have success at 2 different levels of football.
I think any of Urban Meyer, Mark Dantonio and James Franklin would be failures at the NFL level.
They wouldn't be below-average NFL coaches. They would be failures.
Urban's schemes wouldn't work in the NFL. Dantonio's "we're always being disrespected, screw that, let's instead bully the bullies ourselves" demeanor wouldn't work in the NFL. Franklin's "Head Coach with high energy, installing an attitude of let's have fun and enjoy being each other's teammates" coaching demeanor wouldn't work in the NFL.
But, they work in college. Urban's done it at 4 schools, Dantonio and Franklin at 2 schools.
There's no right answer here - but I do feel if we're ranking the 4 coaches now, it needs to be exclusively on their college resumes. That's where they are now, after all.
Well, lets look at the numbers
Meyer : 177-31 .851, 3 NCs, turned around 2 smaller programs in Bowling Green & Utah, then took over two of the more fertile & successful recruiting programs and was equally successful at Florida & OSU. His numbers pretty much speak for themselves. To date about the only knock on him is he isn't Saban.
Dantonio: 118-62 .655, 3 conference championships, one playoff appearance. He has not had the luxury of being in a fertile recruiting ground like FL or OH, and not been at a blue blood program. From all accounts, he's done a lot with what he's been given. However, in his 14 seasons as a head coach he has only won 8 or more games in a season half the time. He's had 7 seasons with 7 or fewer wins. And, he's had 5 years where he didn't even have a winning record in conference. So, he's kinda boom or bust almost 50/50.
Franklin: 60-32 .652, 1 conference title. He has a much smaller HC tenure. He started at a lower tiered program for 3 years, had one losing season and two winning seasons, which competing as Vandy in the SEC is pretty impressive I think. After taking over at PSU and has only been there 4 seasons, 2 of which were mediocre and 2 of which were very strong.
Harbaugh: 86-38 .694 winning percentage (college only), 2 conference championships. He started out at San Diego with one OK season at 7-4, followed up by 2 11 win seasons. Then at Stanford he had 2 losing seasons followed by 2 winning seasons including an 12 win season and Orange Bowl victory. At UM he's had 3 winning seasons, two of which were 10 win seasons and one what most would called a rebuilding year with only 8 wins.
So, this article sort of skews the numbers to support their argument. I think if you only consider college career, that is sort of framing the question in a way to get a desired result. I'm not sure how you can argue who is the better coach and ignore the most challenging coaching position there is (NFL) and his success their. But, even if you do, I don't see much of an argument to support Franklin or Dantonio over JH. JH has a better winning percentage than both, more conference titles than Franklin, only one fewer conference title than Dantonio in a lot fewer years, and more 10+ win seasons than Dantonio in way fewer seasons. Franklin's had 2 really good years in a row, but it kind of seems like they are framing his entire coaching career on the last two years. I think that's way too small of a sample size to say he's a better coach. Let's see what he does over the next 5 years then we'll see.
By my watch I'd go
1. Meyer
2. Harbaugh
3. Dantonio
4. Franklin - Check back in a few years, but the last few have been promising
Welp, results matter.
Athlon is dead to me
Seems fair. But who cares?
If they are considering what a coach has done while in the B1G why would anyone fault them for ranking Meyer first? Dantonio second makes sense also since he has won 3 or 4 B1G titles during his 11 or 12 years and Franklin won a championship so 3 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. For those upset that Harbaugh is #4 on this list what about Paul Chryst? Unlike Harbaugh Paul Chryst has won something, it seems to me Paul Chryst should be #4 over Harbaugh.
Well, Dantonio has also has 7 years where he didn't win 8 games and 5 years with a losing record in the conference. If you compare MD & JH coaching numbers head to head JH matches up favorably. JH has more 10+ win seasons in less years coaching in college and only one fewer conference championship.
If they are considering what a coach has done while in the B1G why would anyone fault them for ranking Meyer first? Dantonio second makes sense also since he has won 3 or 4 B1G titles during his 11 or 12 years and Franklin won a championship so 3 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. For those upset that Harbaugh is #4 on this list what about Paul Chryst? Unlike Harbaugh Paul Chryst has won something, it seems to me Paul Chryst should be #4 over Harbaugh.
“Maybe Urban”. “Entire career”. “More”. “Better than Franklin”. “He coached a team to the Super Bowl”. Lol
Jimmie is #5, maybe #6. Chryst and Fitzgerald are probably both better coaches. In his entire career, how many conference titles has he won? How many division (not NFC West) titles has he won? How many CFP games/wins? How many Natties? How many NY6 bowl wins? 1-5 vs rivals (not counting Rutgers).
Lovie also lost a Super Bowl. Ok I’ll rank Jimmie ahead of Lovie.
Ah, another troll account, fabulous.
TheBestSchools.org has him at #1 in the world so who cares.
How idiotic. If you only look at Harbaugh's Big Ten record, then eh, can't argue. But, he's coached elsewhere and none of the other 3 would have taken an NFL to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Super Bowl in his first 4 seasons. In fact, all 3 would be disasters in the NFL, just as king Saban was. Wasn't it only a couple of seasons ago where Franklin was on the hot seat?? Now, he's a better coach then Harbaugh??? LOL, no -he's had a better last 2 seasons.