2017 discussion: Offense
Might as well do one for offense too.
Graduation: Butt, Smith, D Johnson (maybe), Darboh, Chesson, Magnuson, Kalis, Braden.
Flight risk: Cole (NFL), O'Korn (PT transfer), Morris (PT transfer)
My projected 2 deep:
QB: Speight, (O'Korn), Peters
LT: Newsome, Ulizio?
LG: Bredeson, Spanellis?
C: (Cole) Kugler, Runyan Jr?
RG: Dawson, Onwenu?
RT: JBB, Ulizio?
TE: Asiasi, Wheatley
Flex: Bunting, McKeon
RB: Isaac, Evans, Higdon
FB: K Hill, Poggi, Henderson
WR1: Ways, Harris
WR2: McDoom, Crawford
Slot: Perry, N Johnson
OL is the scariest position for me by far. We're scraping together just the starting 5 and the backups are 404 file not found. Losing Darboh, Chesson, and Butt will take a ton of production off the field, but at least we have some guys that seem to be pushing through from this class. RBs and blocky catchy guys are in good shape depth and talent wise.
Thoughts?
October 11th, 2016 at 12:35 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 10:27 AM ^
flight risks from the guys on offense. I feel Cole will be back to anchor the line next year, which will be huge to have his talent and experience at center again. If Newsome is healthy next year we have two very strong pieces there and add in Bredeson and three of the 5 are top flight OL. I think you can then figure out the other two spots between Kugler, JBB, Dawson, Runyan and put together a very good OL.
We should be stacked at RB next year. WR's we take a big hit and we will have to hope for some good development from the young WR's, but the talent is there.
Speigh hopefully keeps improving if not I think O'Korn or even Peters could step up and we should be strong there next year.
At TE Asiasi looks like a future stud. Add in Bunting, Wheatley, McKeon and we should be solid there next year also.
October 11th, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^
I am glad the comments above are listing Peters as backup for the moment. Speight is a redshirt Sophomore who looks pretty darn good and has helped lead us to 6-0. Yet some of the geniuses on this board are ready to anoint Peters as the savior. I too am looking forward to seeing Peters take the field someday - but time to give Speight his due.
Whole situation is starting to remind me when they named Drew Henson as the god of all QBs, even before we had completed the tenure of a pretty good senior QB named Tom Brady. Still pissed that Carr brought in Henson in the 2nd half of that 1999 MSU game.
And in the immortal words of Forrest Gump - that's all I have to say about that...
October 11th, 2016 at 10:40 AM ^
The situation between Speight and Peters nearly couldn't be less analogous to Brady & Henson. I have been both a defender of Speight's play so far and someone who believes that Peters has a very good shot of being our starting QB next year. Absolutely nobody should be able to look at both of them and think that Peters doesn't give the offense a higher ceiling. That doesn't diminsh the admirable job that Speight is doing this year.
October 11th, 2016 at 10:57 AM ^
and have one thing to add - The person who will 100% disagree with any notion that Speight will get his "due" next year is Jim Harbaugh. He'll start if he's the best guys for the job. If Peters is better, he'll play. Will the fact that Speight has far more experience enter into that discussion? Well hell yeah. But if Peters is throwing darts, taking care of the ball, and moving the team better in practice, I think he'll play. It has nothing to do with *'s, and everything to do with how you play.
That said, precisely the same logic applies to Speight. If he's better, he plays.
It seems pretty clear that whatever notion of "owing stuff to upper classmen" that existed under Hoke (or others), is just out the window with Harbaugh. He appreciates the effort and sacrifice, but the guys that help the team play.
Rob
October 11th, 2016 at 11:01 AM ^
Well said, Rob
October 11th, 2016 at 12:11 PM ^
Well said, both. Quality discussion here.
October 11th, 2016 at 12:17 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^
I wanted to hit this from one more angle - You are illustrating Harbaugh's approach with Rudock's story from last year at Michigan - I think Rudock's experience at Iowa shows that good coaches (and I count Ferentz among them, though IMO, nowhere near JH) put the best guy in there - Rudock had been the guy, and they had success with him, but Beathard came in and showed the stuff to take his job.
Will that happen with Peters vs Speight? I think the parallel has some merit, but.. What with submarines and all - There's a good chance we don't know the answer until somebody trots on the field in Arlington against Florida. :)
Rob
October 11th, 2016 at 11:42 AM ^
I see Peters emerging in the fall camp as a clear #2 behind Speight. Speight has performed well enough that only injury or sucktitude will cause him to lose playing time.
Peters will get playing time via injury and blowouts and only take the job if he morphs into Andrew Luck circa 2009 during an extended Speight injury.
October 11th, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^
I disagree, and think they played Henson for the same reason - they believed with his total athleticism and tools he could give the offense a higher ceiling than Brady.
However, you make a fair argument. And you are also the first person I have ever heard use the word "analogous", a pretty kick ass word. Very nice.
October 11th, 2016 at 10:59 AM ^
While his athleticism was part of it, the pressure Lloyd felt to play Henson came more from his ranking as one of the best recruits we have ever signed and the fear that if we didn't give him enough PT he would bolt to go play pro-baseball (watched him in a AAA game once and boy was that a bad decision on his part). Peters is a highly ranked recruit but not of the superstar, media attention variety. He is also not a flight risk.
Brady also had performed at a higher level than Speight in almost all outings. While Speight's level of play has been fine, we don't know if it will ever be very good. They knew that Brady was very good, but played Henson anyways.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
than Speight in almost all outings. Are you just referencing Brady's 1999 season?
October 11th, 2016 at 12:16 PM ^
It would be interesting to hear an insider's view of how that QB battle played out. (Perhaps you have some insight in this? I don't know how you were connected to the program). It is true that Carr had a lot invested in Henson and had to keep him engaged in the football team.
It is also true that Henson was extremely talented and not an embarrassment in his half of the rotation. I went into the season favoring Brady, though a lot of that had to do with my youth and my old-fashioned "senior gets preference" ideas, and I preferred Brady's play through the early part of the year. But Henson was no scrub and he did make some key plays (notably, the long TD late in the first half in East Lansing that won him the first snaps in the second half, causing the offense to go nowhere until Brady came back in).
I honestly thought that Carr did about as well as he could managing that battle. I think Brady would have given Michigan a chance to come back against MSU in '99, but only a chance--that was a very good MSU team and they were moving the ball on us. And the Illinois calamity had little to do with the QB position.
The result was that we got Henson for 2000 when he was healthy and he played very well. A pity we didn't get to see his senior year.
October 11th, 2016 at 12:25 PM ^
I was just a younger mega-fan at that point, no connections yet. I also preferred Brady, but you're right Henson was no scrub. I just thought he was less consistently good than Brady. He probably had more raw talent, but it was very raw.
October 11th, 2016 at 10:54 AM ^
Speight is a decent quarterback who is smart and doesn't make a lot of bad decisions, but I think next year Peters beats him out. I view Speight as the ultimate game manager, whereas Peters is the total package. He can make all the throws, can extend plays, and he is intelligent. Reminds me a lot of the last quarterback Harbaugh handpicked while he coached at Stanford.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:01 AM ^
If Peters beats out Speight, so be it. Love the competition aspect that drives decisions in the new Harbaugh regime. Speight has already beat out two other competitors with arguably better natural ability.
If Peters can outperform Speight leading up to Fall 2017 - that would say a ton about him!
October 11th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^
I disagree, I believe Speight will be the starter next year as well. Peters is a good prospect at QB and it is good he is RS this year and just learning the offense, but it is hard to replace a starter with a first time starter RS freshman after the good season we are having right now (game experience is just hard to reproduce in practice I believe), and will probably continue to have up until the true test in November. Peters will get his chance, but for right now I just don't see it.
October 11th, 2016 at 1:12 PM ^
I'm gonna speculate on Peters' immediate success based on a true sample size of 0.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:05 AM ^
I do know one thing tho...whatever Harbaugh decides to do with our QB's next year...I will not question it..
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October 11th, 2016 at 12:22 PM ^
I really don't know what will happen next year and I don't think anybody else does, either. Speight is clearly a competitive guy, and he has grown quite a bit from the backup that struggled save for two big plays against Minnesota last year. So who knows how he will grow this off-season? We have no idea what we will get from Peters. High expectations, yes, but not all QBs with high expectations pan out.
It's possible that Peters comes in with a clear understanding of the offense, an accurate arm, and a solid pocket presence, and makes us forget about Speight entirely. It's also possible that he's not quite there yet, and that Speight makes another leap and becomes a game-changing playmaker.
Speight is a redshirt sophomore, somehow. That is the same level of experience that John Navarre had in 2001 when Navarre was totally lost for large parts of the season.
By his senior year Navarre was producing one of the best QB seasons Michigan has ever seen.
I'm on record elsewhere here as being pessimistic about how much Speight will grow the rest of this year, but there's no telling how much he'll grow in one or two seasons.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:01 AM ^
From what I have heard, the coaches really like what they have seen out of Ulizio and Runyan Jr, so don't be surprised if one of them take the starting right guard or tackle spot next year.
I'm thinking:
Newsome--Bredeson--Cole--Kugler/Runyan--Ulizio
Beatty--Dawson--Kugler--Runyan--Beatty
Elite Freshmen & Owenu might alter this some.
Cole coming back will be HUGE for our offensive line. Hopefully, Newsome will be at least be healthy by Spring and doing everything he can do minus full contact. IMO if these 2 things can happen then we will be in good shape.
I still think it will be 2018 or 2019 when we can say our Offensive line is truly elite.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:12 AM ^
Report on mlive today made it pretty clear Newsome will not be ready for spring. Hope he gets back by fall, but I don't think we can be sure of even that.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:17 AM ^
Can you send me a link? Thanks.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:17 AM ^
that he red shirt 2017
October 11th, 2016 at 11:02 AM ^
If we land DPJ, which I expect we will, I think he starts from day 1. The guy has Amari Cooper/Calvin Ridley freshman impact ability.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:12 AM ^
We are getting him and he is planning on starting. He's so great not just because of his God-given talent, but also because he's always working. On top of being one of our more talented WR recruits in a long time he will be one of the most college-ready.
October 11th, 2016 at 12:23 PM ^
I hope so. Certainly high on his ability to contribute early.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^
I'm actually pretty sanguine about the OL, I feel like the guys who have been in the system for multiple years and were recruited by Harbaugh / Drevno will be ready to play. With our haul this year we might also be in line to get one or two of those superstar recruits who is ready to go in year 1.
What worries me most is WRs. I know we have raw talent there but I've seen a few advanced stat guys who say that returning WR production is one of the best predictors of offensive success (not returning OL or QB as is commonly believed). I'm afraid of what losing Darboh, Chesson, and Butt all in one year will do (although TE I think will be just fine). We'll see.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^
Is if Speight is drafted after winning the NC.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:49 AM ^
I don't share the doom-and-gloom view of Speight that some on this board do - I think he's a pretty decent QB. That said, I wouldn't be even the least bit surprised if Peters beats him out next year, which I base far more on Peters' potential than Speight's shortcomings.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:14 AM ^
I think Wilton will also be our starter next year after a long off season battle with O'Korn and Peters. I feel like Shane will transfer and maybe Alex Malzone also.
That gives us:
Speight
O'Korn
Peters
McCaffery (rs)
This is not bad at all. We will have 2 hand picked Harbaugh guys on the roster and what I think is a very solid back-up in O'Korn.
Wide Receiver is a bit of an unknown, but we have guys out there getting experience running around every game at least. We bring back Grant Perry which is good.
The real question is who we bring in this years recruiting class. Hopefully they will be ready to go type of players and I'm praying 1-2 can enroll in the Spring.
Peoples-Jones and Nico Collins is what we will really need this year after losing Darboh and Chesson. If we can get them and get them in early then I won't have many worries. It would also be huge if Harris or Ways could step up finally.
Give me:
Peoples-Jones
Collins
Perry
Crawford
McDoom
Ways/Harris
If we can get something along these lines then I think everything will be pretty good through the air next year. I definitely believe Speight can really take a huge step forward next year and he just needs the receiver spot to reload.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:18 AM ^
That group of WR is very good. Replacing 2 Sr. starters is not easy, but with the Fr talent we have and with the new coming in next year, we will be fine.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:56 PM ^
Biggest issue will be the drop in blocking and the potentially effect on the run game with Frosh WRs. Best blocker gets the PT so hopefully an EE like DPJ (fingers crossed) will have a step up over a normal freshmen.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:58 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 11:19 AM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 11:30 AM ^
From the perspective of looking at transfers seeking playing time, David Dawson will be going into his fifth year without seeing significant time on the field. This is pure speculation but if a true freshman comes in and beats him onto the two deep, or moves him off of it, then he would at least seem to be a candidate.
We've already seen that he isn't the 6th or 7th, maybe not even the 8th OL this year but depth would seem to indicate that he will at least be offered a 5th year.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:57 AM ^
Dawson played quite a few snaps at DT against Rutgers in the second half. If he can contribute on the interior of the D-line he could be a valuable player next year for Michigan.
October 11th, 2016 at 12:56 PM ^
How on earth is Dawson already a senior? Damn does time fly...
October 11th, 2016 at 4:20 PM ^
I didn't believe you but upon further review, he did indeed play DT late in the 4th. Kudos to you for paying attention that long. The game was background noise to me at that point as I had a wicked head cold. I was sure that you just confused him for Dwumfor or Onwenu, but nope.
However, that doesn't really bode well for his ability to see meaningful playing time.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:22 AM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 11:25 AM ^
I hope that you're wrong about the QB spot. Don't get me wrong, I like Speight because of his intangibles, but next year we are going to need a lot more out of that QB spot with the amount of rebuilding that we will be doing. I just can't see the QB who went 6-13 against Rutgers being our guy for two more years with all of the talent that we are going to have on the roster.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:27 AM ^
Most of those throws were in the pouring rain. Even so, his yards per attempt was not horrible.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:37 AM ^
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October 11th, 2016 at 11:55 AM ^
In order: Drew Henson, John Navarre, Matt Gutierrez, Clayton Richards, Chad Henne, Ryan Mallett, Tate Forcier, Devin Gardner, Shane Morris and now Brandon Peters.
How about we enjoy Wilson Speight, and be glad we are not trying to decide if O'Connor, Terry or Lewerke is our starter this Saturday...
October 11th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 11:35 AM ^
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October 11th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^
2017? He gone.
October 11th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
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