No Second MSU Game At Yost This Year
We found out why the first Michigan State hockey series was "TBA" yesterday, when it was announced that the two teams would play an outdoor game in Chicago. There are about 50,000 reasons that's a questionable decision—as in the number of people who won't be at this who would if it was on either campus.
Michigan is due to get two home games against State this year, Michigan and MSU have a contract to play at the Joe annually, and the other MSU game is still ominously "TBA":
![image[10]](https://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/images/Brandon-Screws-Hockey-Season-Ticket-Hold_A66D/image10.png "image[10]")
I just called the ticket office, and they said they were told that the January 30th game is at the Joe.
I, like a lot of season ticket holders, have already renewed my season tickets, and now I am informed that a game against Michigan's biggest rival is going to be in Chicago. This is how you lose people forever, Dave Brandon. But I'm sure the one-time benefit from playing in Chicago is more important than not making your season ticket holders feel like saps. Clueless. This athletic department is clueless.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
To be fair, I think the Athletic Department would claim that they DID give us a refund by lowering prices by 15% for this season. They just obfuscated the fact that it was a refund, which is why David Brandon and his minions are a gang of dicks.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
The 15% reduction was quoted WITH the schedule showing 7FEB as home game vs. msu. That does not equal refund of tickets purchased.
August 12th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
With location listed as "TBA", which should've been a major red flag for all of us.
Last season's game at the Joe was also listed as a "home" game, but it wasn't part of the season ticket package.
Look, I'm not trying to defend what the Athletic Department did with regards to this, I've made at least a dozen comments on two threads to the contrary. Still, to claim that they have criminally defrauded the season ticket holders is an overstatement.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
The 15% reduction was quoted WITH the schedule showing 7FEB as home game vs. msu. That does not equal refund of tickets purchased.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
Yeah, that's true, and while I'm not a season ticket holder either I'm guessing that the outrage is the bait and switch which was definitely present here. Brian and others paid $500 or so for season tickets thinking that they'd see MSU twice in Yost - marquee games. Maybe the marquee game on the schedule. Now they find out a few days after the money is paid that MSU doesn't come to Yost again and they get the added bonus of not only losing this game but if they want to see it they have to drive all the way to Chicago and probably shell out another $500 when all is said and done. That...sucks. It is wonderful for Chicago Alumni and people like me who might want to drive up to see that game, sure, but I didn't pay for season tickets thinking I'd get to see that game. It definitely is Brandon being Brandon. He's done it again and again - and Brian is correct that he is screwing over the die hard fans for a payday, exposure, all that. This is fine and good if they come out beforehand and say that there's a TBA here in the schedule that possibly won't be a home game. Season ticket purchasers can't assume that the TBA means "this game might be in another state" It is bait and switch and another example of Brandon not giving two fucks.
I'm sure the fans in the area love it, the recruits love it, the players love it, some of the season ticket holders love it, but that doesn't change the fact that the AD goes about these things in all the wrong ways. There definitely is a way to do this without the outrage.
If that billionaire donor in your scenario gives them money, cool, I'm down with it, but give the fans some respect and let them know beforehand. It is bullshit how this and many many other things go down with this AD.
Also shouldn't this game really be against Notre Dame or Wisconsin or, shoot, some East Coast school with alumni in the area. You don't pull two Michigan teams out like this. Soldier field will not be at capacity.
August 12th, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^
1329, I generally agree with your post, but you make a comment about "the recruits love it, the players love it, some of the season ticket holders love it". And while you set up this argument to knock it down, I want to dispell this logic implied by that statement used by a lot of people.
Yost cranked up is the single best sporting venue I have ever been in. I'm guessing that the recruits and players get to see what their future home environment is like on full go is a little more impressive than playing in front of a crowd that is at the closest 30 yards from the field and nowhere near as vocal as Yost.
No, I'll take the home date with our biggest hockey rival.
Also, the whole "recruits love" crappy idea of the day meme doesn't hold much water. Alabama doesn't do stupid alternate uniformz. They wear the same straight forward unis and helmets every single game. And guess what, they have the #1 recruiting class. EVERY. YEAR. Oregon does it because they have no traditions and their Sugar Daddy is getting paid every time they can sell a different jersey.
August 12th, 2014 at 4:41 PM ^
said "Shawn Hunwick pulled me aside and told me that the players love every chance they get to play in an NHL arena or in a special event." That's where I was going with this comment.
I agree wholeheartedly that Yost cranked up is incredible, and must be so as well for the players and recruits.
August 13th, 2014 at 12:21 PM ^
I don't doubt tht playing outdoor or at the Joe is something unusual that the players look forward to. My point was that there is an opportunity cost of taking away a home game and playing it elsewhere. If that home game is against Penn State or some other non-marque team, there is little lost. But the opportunity cost of giving up a home game against the teams biggest rival, and the atmosphere that goes with it is a cost on an entirely different scale.
August 12th, 2014 at 8:19 PM ^
and emotional spirit. The university counts on that for its foundational funding and continued support. If you are going to lauch a promotion aimed at expanding the reach of the program at the expense of the people who avidly support the school, and have repeatedly demonstrated it year in and year out, you are telling them in a way that they completely understand that you don't care enough about them to explain why you are marketing the school at their expense.
And that is arrogance. And disrespectful. And you don't have to be a season ticket-holder to feel their anger or appreciate why they feel slighted. Because when you market an out of town game as a replacement for a big game matchup at your home arena and sell it as a seasonal discount without explaining that, you are lying to the people who support you. And that is just wrong, whether you pretend that wasn't your intention or simply a miscommunication.
So, now, you have another mess to clean up.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
Not sure where I stand on this one...hockey doesn't seem to be a very strong draw even at home - they've had problems selling out Yost recently, correct? If they sell out a game in Chicago, where alumni of both schools are in massive numbers, this seems like an ok trade off for the program as a whole.
Would have preferred this be deducted from the season ticket package, though.
EDIT: I've been swayed by other posters to agree with Brian. This should have been a different team, Minn or Wisky would also make a ton of sense for Chicago showcase with added bonus of not losing biggest rival game at home.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
they won't get anywhere near a sellout, i don't care how many alumni live in chicago.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^
Will they get more than than the 5,800 they would get by selling out Yost, though? Soldier field holds 61,500 so they need only 10% of capacity to be ahead. And if you look at past outdoor games for UofM hockey the attendance looks like:
2001 - 74,000
2010 - 55,000
2010 - 104,000 (vs MSU at the Big House)
2012 - 25,000 (vs OSU in Cleveland)
2013 - 25,000 (vs Western in Detroit)
I'd bet they get 45,000+ at Soldier Field given the huge alumni base of both institutions living in Chicago.
Still, could have picked a different team to do this with and also tried to replace an away game instead of giving up the home ice.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^
With Brian on this issue, but not nearly as passionately as Brian agrees with Brian.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^
now, if they wanted to play UM vs UW in chicago, i could see that. but it is stupid and unfair to move the biggest rivalry game out of the area.
btw - i am not a hockey season ticket holder. i am a football season ticket holder.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:24 PM ^
schedule and value for the program. BUT, this move basically breaks the contract with the season ticket holder with a bait and switch. Even a single game refund for the ticketholder is not valuable enough since MSU carries so much weight in the buying decision for season tickets in comparison to the other games. They should have scheduled out one more year in Chicago if the announcement could not have been made before the deadline to buy season tickets passed. Otherwise, this just seems like a poor decision.
August 12th, 2014 at 3:08 PM ^
Brian, I agree with your position in your post. It is bullshit to pull a scheduled game after season tickets have been purchase. However, your response is childish. SpaceCoyote was wrong, but politely and gently so. You're apparently still salty that he didn't agree with you about Borges so you bundle that with his post here to call him a Yes Man. That wasn't called for. It would be on par with me claiming you have Oversensitivity to Criticism disease on the basis of this post.
Your claim later in thread that he's disagreeing just to disagree (essentially trolling) is similarly silly. If he's trolling, he sure does it in strange way, mixing it in with extremely helpful and insightful posts about technical football details. Finally, I don't understand who the "we" are supposed to be who "get it." I guess that is supposed to imply SpaceCoyote just isn't a real fan or something like that because he disagrees with you. Again, he is an awfully well disguised "fake" fan if that is the case.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
Wish I could upvote you more and more.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
August 12th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^
I like your suggestion of Wisconsin and I can see the frustration over losing a home game from your biggest rival (a reason moving the game at the Joe would make more sense, though I'm pretty sure they'd have trouble breaking that). I also see some reasons to have it be MSU, given the recent history of such events between Michigan and MSU, and the alumni from both schools in Chicago.
Like I said, things could have been handled better. Maybe it's just outrage over-saturation that has me thinking this way. I tend to try to look at things from both sides and don't believe these types of decisions get made without thought. I think there are valid reasons for the AD to do this, and I think there are valid reasons for season ticket holders to be upset. Again, maybe it's AD-outrage over-saturation that's playing a toll on me. I'd be more inclined to be outraged if it was football (obviously, the home field advantage isn't returned, so home field advantage is even bigger in that case) or basketball (which only has one home game vs the rival a year, except in stupid years where B1G scheduling doesn't have that). But baseball, hockey, etc at least still have a home game. Again, not that it doesn't suck to lose any home games against your rival.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^
Imagine this happened with football or basketball - "Tickets are $50 off this year!" Then, 5 days after the renewal deadline "The Ohio State Game will be played in New York! No refunds, and you have to pay face value if you want a ticket at all!" Brandon would quite possibly be hanging from a street lamp. THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME, writ slightly smaller. It's a nasty, cruel, petty way to treat your loyal fans. They absolutely knew (or planned) that this game was not going to be at Yost months ago, and did nothing to warn the fans. There is no reason to do that but naked greed. That is wrong, straight up, should not be a matter of debate.
But you're defending the AD because you're not a big hockey fan. You're telling Brian he's wrong for caring about something, just because you don't care about it. That's pretty lame man. That's why he's pissed about you being contrarian here, you flat out admit you have no personal interest in the debate but you still post several multi paragraph replies telling Brian he's just anti-AD and should only be a little upset. This is totally different than Borges - there you had a legit perspective to share. Here you're just mocking rabid hockey fans because you disagree with Brian's passion on other stuff the AD has done.
August 12th, 2014 at 8:30 PM ^
Why get upset if Michigan has to play MSU on the road in football two years in a row, in a site where they haven't won since Mike Hart made Little Brother a stupid cliche.
It's about the scheduling of this game and this school, and it's also about the subterfuge in selling something else as a way to paper over this decision. And it's galling. Why is this difficult to understand? I mean the whole point of putting this on a football plane of thinking is to get you to understand where this anger is coming from.
August 12th, 2014 at 8:30 PM ^
Why get upset if Michigan has to play MSU on the road in football two years in a row, in a site where they haven't won since Mike Hart made Little Brother a stupid cliche.
It's about the scheduling of this game and this school, and it's also about the subterfuge in selling something else as a way to paper over this decision. And it's galling. Why is this difficult to understand? I mean the whole point of putting this on a football plane of thinking is to get you to understand where this anger is coming from.
August 12th, 2014 at 8:30 PM ^
Why get upset if Michigan has to play MSU on the road in football two years in a row, in a site where they haven't won since Mike Hart made Little Brother a stupid cliche.
It's about the scheduling of this game and this school, and it's also about the subterfuge in selling something else as a way to paper over this decision. And it's galling. Why is this difficult to understand? I mean the whole point of putting this on a football plane of thinking is to get you to understand where this anger is coming from.
August 12th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
As a former season ticket holder I can completely understand the anger behind this. You're spot on when you bring up the fact that Yost goes crazy for the MSU matchup. The student section takes it to another level during these games and as a fan you knew this going into the game. I don't think you can fully understand Brian's anger unless you've been a diehard season ticket holder that has fully supported the program and taken in these experiences for years. It's shady as fuck and it's almost a stab in the heart. I will never forget the 2009 MSU game when Kampfer got jumped. That was an insane moment. I think Space Coyote is a little out of his element here and we should all know by know how much Bryan loves and supports the hockey program.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
times 1,000. The general negative attitude towards anything the Athletic Department does really can make it hard to enjoy this blog at times. The worse it gets, the less I come here. Took a solid week and a half off recently and unfollowed Brian on Twitter because I just couldn't deal with the negativity anymore. The complainers will take the inch of shit that the AD may put out and make it look like a mile. It just gets really old. Rant: over; really I just wanted a reason to post this GIF:
August 12th, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
Oh come on... If you can't deal with this low (relative to important things in life) level of negativity, I worry about your ability to work productively in society.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
I literally can't deal with it. I'm just not going to force myself to encounter it in the course of something that's supposed to be as entertaining and enjoyable as it is informative. As for your concerns about my ability to work productively, I'm doing just fine, thanks.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
i too have taken time away from the blog when the bitching got too great. BUT, as a hockey season ticket holder, find this latest DB action very distasteful. And to those that are telling us to 'quit our bitchin' I want to ask.......what do you do when you get hmoe from the store and find you did not get what you paid for?
I bought tickets for a hockey season. that INCLUDED a game against Staee on my wife's birthday. Something that made her very happy (tickets were originally an anniversary present for HER). And now, i get to tell her that no longer exists.
Thanks, dave
August 12th, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
get what you paid for. My comment was more of a general statement than in regards to the hockey thing. I maybe watch one UM hockey game a year, this situation couldn't matter less to me one way or the other. I figure if everybody is going to talk about what they're not happy with, I would offer my point of view that I'm not really satisfied with some things here.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
"...this situation couldn't matter less to me one way or the other. I figure if everybody is going to talk about what they're not happy with..."
So you're just a troll trying to make excuses for trolling. At least own it.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^
sitting around on this site for 3 years just to troll in this instance.
August 12th, 2014 at 9:00 PM ^
I guess it is all roses with Dave Brandaon's fraudulant practices. I love the whole bate and switch method as a season ticket holder. Fuck Dave Brandon.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
the problem is not in neutral site games per se, or in the reduced value of a season ticket package, or in the inconvenience of driving to chicago. the problem is that hosting home games against your biggest rival in any sport is something you should not give up for any amount of money. home games against msu - in any sport you can name - are an unmitigated good.
if you want to say that money to fuel other athletic department programs or facilities is also a good, fine. i agree with that, too, to a point. the problem - as always - is that the athletic department was given a choice between the good of a home game against our bitterest rival and the (assumed) good of money...and chose money. THEY ALWAYS CHOOSE MONEY.
the thing is, if they wanted the money, i suspect that they could get the same amount by scheduling a one-off against denver, or colorado college, or duluth...or notre dame (well, obviously)
August 12th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
that would make perfect sense. but no.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:22 PM ^
I'm not a hockey season ticket holder either, but it's really not hard to see why ticket holders are upset that they're losing a home game against their biggest rivals for a neutral site game. If this was say against OSU or UW, then I think people might be slightly annoyed, but not nearly as upset.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^
In fact, it would be pretty darn sweet to see Michigan vs. Wisconsin or Minnesota at Soldier Field. Makes sense as a geographic middle ground with the novelty of playing in a cold-weather outdoor NFL stadium in February.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
We sure do like giving up home games to MSU for some reason. I'm waiting for the announcement next on basketball.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^
You do realize we had absolutely no control over the schedule change in football and that DB even appealed to the conference and was shot down.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^
..."we had absolutely no control over the schedule change in football and that DB even appealed to the conference and was shot down." This needs an independent verification. Has this ever been stated by anyone but Brandon himself?
August 12th, 2014 at 2:44 PM ^
This is verifiably bullshit. Do some background research on that before you state it as a fact. You are very much incorrect. I'm not looking it up for you though.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
Also shot down: The idea that DB had no control over the schedule change. He had input to what the scheduling inputs were before they got plugged into the computer that spit them out, and he failed to include rudimentary things like "don't make us play anyone on the road two years in a row, and if we absolutely have to, don't make it one of our big rivals." DB put in a token complaint after the fact, and uses that as his crutch to say, see, look, I tried but I couldn't do anything.
Does anyone honestly expect people to believe that the conference forced a schedule on the schools without any input from the ADs? DB had his chance and blew it.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^
Honestly, I think a one-off in Chicago is more than "not-awful," it's a decent idea. Sports like college hockey could use the exposure that comes with "events" like this one. I like it much less for football (hence, I get all up in arms over things like Jerryworld) because of the extremely limited number of games and the fact that it doesn't move the exposure needle much, but for hockey, let's do it. It happens in lacrosse all the time.
I do agree that in principle the AD needs to have this stuff out to the ticket holders before they make decisions about renewing. (Though I did look askance at the board thread that fumed about the average cost of a game going up one dollar.) The NFL for example made sure to announce the London games before anyone had to renew their season tickets. It's just one more piece of evidence on the pile that says Brandon thinks he's such a wonderful marketer and has zero clue about customer relations (or else just doesn't care.)
But I generally agree, this whole Chicago thing is at worst a mixed deal, some good, some bad. Nothing wrong with taking the hockey show on the road every now and then.
August 12th, 2014 at 9:04 PM ^
I am sorry as a season ticket holder all I see is me being defrauded by Dave Brandon yet again. Sure it is not that much money, but it is the principle of the matter that I was lied to yet again by Dave Brandon. I don't care if the game is in Chicago. I have tons of friends in Chicago I can stay with to see the game. However, I was expecting TWO home games, not one.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
I don't think there will be all that many people will go to the game in Chicago. Only 26K showed up to the doubleheader at Comerica last year, and there are certainly far more alumni and fans in the detroit area than Chicago.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^
I wonder if we have reached a saturation point of too many neutral site and outdoor games.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^
It has to be close, I'd expect. Having not been to one, I'm going off a bit of common sense and word of mouth, but these outdoor hockey games are more about the experience than game viewing, no? With the proliferation of college games in football/baseball stadiums and the NHL going full bore on outdoor games since last season the experience has to have become less special.
August 12th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
or even a football game? Sure there are fewer football games so the impact is obviously greater, but I expect that everyone would lose their minds if this happened in football, including you. Is it really that different just because its hockey?
August 12th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
You're missing the point... there's nothing wrong with a one-off in Chicago. As you mentioned, there are many positives for having a game at Soldier field.
The problem is DB is doing what DB does - alienate his fanbase and then, down the line, be shocked (shocked!) that fans aren't turning up. He'll no doubt chalk it up to some stupid reason reason, like HDTV, rather than his own air-headedness.
If you want to keep your fans happy, you don't make them pay for a season ticket at an increasingly high price, then strip one of the premier fixtures off the schedule once you have their money. For real, people are OK with this? If I were in Brian (or any other Hockey season ticket holder's) shoes I'd be heading for Ann Arbor torch & pitchfork.
The more stunts like this DB pulls, the more his complaints about lack of fan participation and pleas for people to buy tickets ring hollow. At some point, you are who you are, and DB is a corporate automaton with no sense of how fandom works.
August 12th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
I agree with you here. I definately agree going into a season ticket purchase expecting 2 games vs MSU at one of the arenas and then finding out later they wont be is obnoxious. Although I find it hard to comiserate with the arguement that a game at the Joe is anything less than a home game at Yost. But again, i agree with the points you made.
I think the big disconnect is the season ticket holder vs single ticket vs TV fan. Personally, although i have the financial means, i cant justify the excessive cost of season tickets. I am a frugal introvert who hates crowds and likes to watch sports alone so tickets in general dont make much sense to me. In that vein, from my perspective i find it a little bit crazy to purchase season tickets in the first place. So seeing a one off game that is better from every perspective apart from a season ticket holders (my opinion) seems like a no brainer yes move.
I think the situation could have been handeled better, but similar to SC's comment I find the similarity between this outrage and the one off uniforms striking. Feels like a get off my lawn moment that ers far more on the side of whiney entitled than anything else.
Side note, I just watched the latest Louis CK standup and he has a section where he complains about people going for the top shelf with words leaving us with nothing to accurately describe truely awesome, hilarious, terrible, epic moments. The "This is how you lose people forever" feminded me of it. Doing 1 special game this year for some alumni at the potential financial or physical enjoyment of a season ticket holder doest quite warrent that IMO.
August 12th, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^
Did you by chance attend the Ross School of Business?
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