A Question for the Michigan Fans on this Site
There's one thing that I have noticed about Michigan's team in the last 3 years (beside's the defense) and that is that you guys seem to be lacking kickers. Gibbons who kicked in the Notre Dame game was awful missing short range distances and some 30 + yarders. Is Rich Rodriguez doing something recruiting wise to find better players for the kicking game because it hasn't really been good at all. Has Michigan ever had a really strong kicker in the past that was consistent in every game? I'm not being mean I promise I'm just asking a question.
September 21st, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
...was a lock...kid never missed...
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
Wasn't it Epstein that used to boom them through the uprights on kickoffs too before they moved kickoffs back 10 yards?
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:02 AM ^
Epstein had the strongest leg of anyone we've had, but he was not that accurate. He missed a bunch of key FGs.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:18 AM ^
Ali Haji-Sheikh was equally powerful, but more accurate, back in the 1980s.
He kicked in the pros for the NY Giants, IIRC.
Jay Feely still kicking in the pros, obvsly.
Remy Hamilton was pretty clutch back in the 1990s.
Who am I forgetting? Mike Gillette, Garrett Rivas, Kicking Competency Lopata, plenty others I'm sure.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:20 AM ^
Brabbs + Nienberg
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:57 AM ^
correction: epstein kicked like a cannon and was crazy accurate until he injured his leg. he returned the following season with the same power, but less accuracy.
September 22nd, 2010 at 1:17 AM ^
Exactly. Epstein will be remembered for his monster kickoffs. But his FG's? Not so much. I think he actually got worse in that department over his UM career.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:04 AM ^
Ok, so he did miss a crucial kick or two- but he was usually money...
And considering where our kicking game has been the last few years, Epstein seems like he's been gone for 25 years...
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:12 AM ^
No, his percentage was very average (in the 60s).
But on a more important note, how many sock puppets have you gone through this month, em0?
September 22nd, 2010 at 3:24 PM ^
Right now, I think we would take a very average FG%.
September 21st, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
"I'm not being mean I promise I'm just asking a question."
I love how you phrase it like that!!
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:27 AM ^
I think he knows people have been on edge as of late and our special teams are kind of a sore spot for most of us lol
September 21st, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
Garret Rivas and Hayden Epstein come to mind as good consistent kickers.
September 22nd, 2010 at 1:34 AM ^
wouldn't have really considered rivas a 'reliable' kicker... although compared to the past couple years we might as well call him adam vinatieri
September 22nd, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
With a 78% FG percentage. What would you consider "reliable"?
Viva Las Rivas!
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he is the leader in Michigan history for accuracy.
September 22nd, 2010 at 1:27 PM ^
Correct! Rivas has a bad rap among Mich fans and I can't figure out why. As you say he is the all time leader for FG percentage. I don't think he had the strongest leg, but he was accurate.
September 21st, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
Rivas was statistically good, I believe. Kickers are hard to project in terms of skill, and especially when scholarships are involved. You have to be pretty confident in the long term success of a kicker to give a scholarship. I would expect Gibbons to be good given some time.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
I think anyone can try out: http://detnews.com/article/20100920/SPORTS0201/9200408
I am thinking about it haha
September 22nd, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
I wish I still lived in Michigan. I played soccer for 13 years. I feel like I could consistently put a ball through the uprights from at least 35yds, unlike SOME people currently on the roster. Lol.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
Jay Feeley was good too; he kicked in the NFL for what seemed like forever.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:32 AM ^
Hrrmmmm? Feely still plays...he's with the Cardinals now.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
Geez, I'm dating myself...
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:05 AM ^
J.D. Carlson
September 22nd, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^
Onside kick, ever.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:14 AM ^
I was waiting for Mike Gillette's name to drop. You're not the only one getting old around here.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
Kickers are usually a mixed bag. We, I think, always have at least one kicker who was a rated recruit nationally on a schollie on our roster at all times. However, scouting high school kickers is clearly an inexact science. Rivas was money. Epstein was very talented, though that miss against Purdue still grinds my gears.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:05 AM ^
Don't forget Kicking Competency Lopata.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:10 AM ^
I don't mind forgetting the gimme he missed in the Toledo game.
K.C. went 5-5 in the Metrodome and 5-10 everywhere else in '08.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:50 AM ^
I wouldn't have called that kick a gimme. Yeah, it was only like 15 yards out, but when you think about kicking it from the right (right?) hash that close and being right-footed, that's a tough angle.
September 22nd, 2010 at 1:14 AM ^
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but don't right-footed kickers prefer to kick it from the right hash, like Garrett Hartley's game winning kick on MNF yesterday.
September 22nd, 2010 at 2:51 AM ^
KC Lopata might have been the opposite of clutch for Toledo, but I think he was good overall. However, he wasn't an RR recruit, to answer the OP's question.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:05 AM ^
In the last few years we have had kickers that weren't overly impressive but that got the job done. Both K.C. Lopata and Jason Olesnavage weren't flashy and didn't have big legs but made field goals pretty consistently. Gibbons was recruited as one of the better kickers in his class and just hasn't panned out yet but I haven't given up on him yet.
Before Lopata, we had Garret Rivas who was a tubby, frightening kicker but also ended up with the highest field goal percentage in Michigan football history so it hasn't been as bad as it has seemed IMHO
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:13 AM ^
After 4-year starter Garrett Rivas graduated in 2006, Michigan has just missed on their kickers on scholarship (that includes Carr's last year as coach). Some of that falls on Carr as well as there was no quality kickers on roster when he retired. We did have an All-American at punter in Zoltan Mesko who graduated last year and now starts for the NE Patriots.
The bigger question for Michigan fans has been that the ST coaching under Rich Rodriguez has left much to be desired and not becoming of a team aspiring to become a national championship contender again.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:25 AM ^
"The ST coaching under Rich Rodriguez has left much to be desired."
While I would debate whether that's even a widely held opinion, either way it's purely noise obfuscating facts, like so much of the RR era.
Our place kicking was above average last year, our returns on KOs were excellent, our punt/KO coverage was fine, and our punting was excellent. Since we can safely ignore most Special Teams data from this year given the vary small sample size, we're essentially left with punt returns from the last couple years as the only significant problem area.
Obviously we had SEVERE problems fielding punts in 2008, and some continued (though lesser) problems in this area last year.. People focus on the bad because it's more memorable than consistent average-to-good plays, like a 45 yard punt with no return, or a 30 yard Darryl Stonum return. Stonum set a KO return record last year for god's sake.
Punt returners fumbling catches is an issue, but it's not relevant as an indicator that our national championship hopes under RR are pipedreams.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:52 AM ^
I don't think you can classify our ST as anything better than mediocre over the last 3 years. The only consistent strong area has been our punting, and I put that more on the special talent of Zoltan Mesko than coaching.
As for focusing on the bad, the low points on ST have far outnumbered the high points.
September 22nd, 2010 at 6:20 AM ^
That the guy was able to pin the blame on Lloyd Carr!
I mean, three years in and Rodriguez's special teams suck worse than ever--AND Lloyd is to blame!
Damn you Lloyd Jonathan Carr--DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!
September 22nd, 2010 at 7:20 AM ^
"... only consistent strong area has been our punting..."
Stonum?
September 22nd, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^
Remy Hamilton was an All-American in 1994, the only time we've ever had one at PK. Garrett Rivas was a four-year starter (2003-06) and was very accurate up to about 45-47. Those are the two best of the last 20 years or so. In between we've had a lot of shaky ones.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^
I don't think it's a Rodriguez issue. He always had good kickers at WVU. The problem that I have with this situation is that the realization that Gibbons wasn't going to get it done should have happened last year and the team should have moved in a different direction right away.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
on a tv at my friends house because her boyfriend gets like every college football game on his cable and I saw that Michigan had the ball twice like on the ND 20 or 30 yard line and still couldn't get a field goal in any of the attempts and when I saw that I was like wow they must not have a good kicker at all. I can remember your Olesnavage kicker in 08 missing a nine yard field goal in the Osu game in Columbus.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:13 AM ^
I can remember your Olesnavage kicker in 08 missing a nine yard field goal in the Osu game in Columbus.
Olesnavage didn't play in that game.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:16 AM ^
I don't follow Michigan football so all I remember is him kicking and somebody missing a goal line kick vs Osu in 08.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:17 AM ^
That was K.C. Lopata
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:39 AM ^
He really did struggle with those close range field goals from the hash marks, didn't he?
September 22nd, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
from the goal line would equate to a 17-18 yard field goal, depending on where the ball is held from. You add the end zone distance of 10 yards plus the distance from the line of scrimmage to the spot where the ball is kicked; usually 7-8 yards.
September 22nd, 2010 at 7:59 AM ^
9 yd FG would be impossible since the end zone is ten yards deep.
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
Rivas was great for a college kicker. People just remember his misses, which he had quite a few. He was called upon to kick way too much (the offense stalled too many times).
September 22nd, 2010 at 6:50 AM ^
His gut and his tiny tyrannosaurus arms.