Am I the only one who isn't a fan of Tate?
I know Tate seems to be a pretty popular guy around here, but I guess I just had to ask if anybody else finds him to be a bit cocky/kinda douchey. No doubt he is a good football player, but I can't help but feel like if he were the starting QB at any other big ten school (even ones we traditionally don't have much animosity for like Northwestern) many of us would probably point out that he seems like a douchenozzle.
As a current student I've seen both Denard and Tate around the Union some (havent talked to either of them personally) and Denard is usually laughing about something and talking with regular students. Tate, on the other hand, seems to keep more to himself, keeping himself relatively separated from the random student body.
But more than that, and more than just a general sense of arrogance I see when he talks to the media, one specific thing sticks in my mind. A couple days after an article came up (I think it was on rivals but I'm not sure) praising Denard's strides as a QB in the spring game, Tate put the article up on his facebook "wall of shame" and added the comment "I was against the 1s he was against the 2s." Personally if Tate can't get excited for a teammate's success, even at the same position, then I find myself really not wanting to root against him.
Obviously as a UM fan/student I'll be rooting for Tate's success every time he touches the ball, but I can't help but feel a really strong hope that Denard somehow manages to win the starting job outright and Tate transfers in 2011 (when DG would be able to be a solid backup as a RS Freshman). Personally this is not a guy I want to have to cheer for and not a guy I want representing my school. Undoubtedly an extremely unpopular opinion here but I just wanted to see if literally anybody else on this board feels the same way.
So, guys and girls, am I the only who one doesnt really like MGoDc at the moment?
I really just dont like the cut of his jib.
MGoAway.
Let me start out by saying that I root for Tate, and will continue to do so as long as he is wearing a winged helmet (unless he transfers to University of Delaware). I also think that this kid has a lot of potential because of his ability to create on the run and under pressure. That said . . .
I was also troubled by the Facebook thing. Yes, his dad runs the page, but if he played for a different team, we would never accept that excuse. I also didn't like the sort of douchy "I don't get nervous" comments when he was doing well. Confident (almost cocky) QBs are a good thing, but that did sort of seem a bit toolish.
A lot of these things could simply be the result of being 18/19 and having been raised by a father that is a bit, shall we say, crazy. I hope that during this upcoming year, he grows up and sheds some of these behaviors.
Although I think your take on Tate is probably short-sighted (and I think you would agree), I applaud you for sharing what you knew would be an unpopular opinion. We all formulate uninformed opinions about people we have brief, random, and secondary encounters with. We are evolutionarily programmed to do so, a tendency we often have to work against. Keep your mind open, we'll see how things play out this season. My guess is that Tate's true character will have plenty of opportunity to surface during this season.
To me Tate does seem unnecessarily cocky. For example, his oft-uttered "I don't get nervous" smacks of the immaturity of a 12-yr old more so than an 18-yr old (even if that is what you think, you don't need to go around chanting it. Plus, it is faulty - nervousness can have good impacts as well as bad). And some of his behavior on the sideline toward RR was childish and insubordinate. RR indicated this spring that Tate needed to do some maturing.
The OP brings up a valid topic. As for all of you negging him for having the balls to post an unpopular opinion, one he adequately prefaced as ill-informed, one he admitted could be faulty, you all should be fucking ashamed. Keep up the homogenization of MGoBlog, and keep attempting to make it a boring place.
This is an anonymous cheapshot at someone the OP has never met. Who cares if Tate is cocky? What does this topic add to anybody's understanding of or appreciation for Michigan football? The OP made no effort to connect Tate's perceived character flaws with his performance on the field, so this just amounts to a pointless exercise in public masturbation.
The OP made no effort to connect Tate's perceived character flaws with his performance on the field, so this just amounts to a pointless exercise in public masturbation.
First, discussions here have never been limited to on-field performance. Just drop that ill-informed argument. Second, this is not about Tate's on-field performance. This is about his character outside of performance, and how that impacts whether the OP wants to cheer for him. They are different topics. If you cant see the nuance, I don't know what to tell you.
I understand that the OP was not referencing on-field performance. That was my complaint. Sure, as a matter of fact, discussions here sometimes to regress to gossipy bullshit about players' off field behavior or attitudes. This thread is evidence of that. But these threads don't add anything of value to the discussions here. They're juvenile and pointless. I just wish people would take this shit to an ESPN forum.
Well, my impression from hanging around here is that Brian and the mods would agree with you. DIssension isn't favored around here. Look for a thread lock soon or for this thread to even disappear.
Being critical of the personality of someone you've never met isn't dissention. It's just ill-informed internet talk. It's noise.
Ya got balls kid, I'll give ya that.
I will say that I think that Tate has the kind of personaility where if he was playing at a different Big Ten school he would be a guy that we'd all love to hate. That said, I'm very glad he's playing for us, cockiness and all.
I think this thread is stupid. I love Tate, but I don't care who our QB is because I just want to win. Having said that, when Tate runs around with the ball in one hand I could literally run on the field and strangle him.
So we don't think it is fair that Tate reads all the Denard love, and feels frustrated that no one (in the press) really acknowledged that he was playing with the two offense against the one defense and vice versa, and he vents it out on his wall of shame???
I have no problem with it. Neither should Denard really.
What if the guy has been hounded, gawked at, and facebook stalked by wide eyed fans for the last three or four years, and his way of dealing with it is to keep to a closer circle of trusted freinds???
I mean really, come on. Granted, anecdotally is has been alluded to that his early success went to his head, and maybe he isn't towing the line as much as he should have. Still, he's all of 19, and is in an incredibly challenging situation (how to be somewhat normal in a fishbowl, and how to make the transition from a lifetime of a father overseeing most aspects of your life to being successful and managing your own life).
There are some great guys on this team, who are clearly extroverts and fun to be around: funny dog stories, rap videos, and smiles, etc. Just because someone keeps to themself, doesn't mean they're not a great guy.
I say unless Tate walks up to you at the Union and says "bow down lowly commoner", maybe you cut him a break.
... i'm surprised by the negative reaction to the OP. As if you haven't insulted opposing 19-year-old amateur athletes? There is a certain emu and OSU QB who would beg to differ.
While I agree that we should always root for him because he is on our team, I can say that I don't like the way he interacts with the media and he does come off as insincere. Strike it up to immaturity, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. The OP should be entitled to his opinion without people making hypocritical statements about how we shouldn’t negatively speak of “unpaid” athletes. If you don’t think we should insult unpaid athletes, hold to that rule for all teams not just UM. If you think we shouldn’t be critical of our own team than you should just state you are circling the wagons and are refusing to listen to alternative viewpoints.
You can be critical without being negative. For example,
Critical: I don't think this thread is in the best interest of this blog and does not meet the viewpoints of most Michigan fans.
Negative: I think this thread was started by the stupedist, most narrow-minded fuckhead on the planet.
I don't know Tate but I'm guessing if he reads this thread he has more reasons to call a couple people "douchenozzles" than they claim to have...
I met Tate once outside the Union. I was like "sup brah" and he was like "sup"
Then I punched him in the face and he was like "haha ow u punched me bro"
And I decided he was a chill brohammer after all
So I have no beef with Torts Falconer
a 19 year old star quarterback of a major college football program acting smug and entitled!!!???!?!?!?!?!!?!???!
...causes MGoShitStorm. Film at eleven.
This topic is absolutely incredible to me. You mean our putative starting quarterback is cocky? Really? A cocky football player? A cocky quarterback? These things are unheard of on a college campus. I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
Just say hi to the dude next time you see him and tell him that you're pulling for him. Do the same thing with Denard.
The public isn't entitled to know which athletes are genuinely good people, which are douches, and which are in between. Sometimes you get to learn a bit about their real personalities, but I don't think there has ever in history been a guy who you can judge one way or another after one year in the public spotlight.
Things you might not choose in a friend are fine qualities for an athlete on a team you root for. As mentioned above, Hart was a loudmouth with a Napolean complex, but when he held a football, he fought for every yard as of he didn't know the difference between 36 inches and salvation, and in doing so earned our undying admiration.
Forcier stood for an entire season opposite dozens of future NFL defensemen, with only Ortmann, Schilling, Moosman, Huyge and Dorrestein between him and them. Before his shoulder exploded, Forcier's gutsy play won the Notre Dame game, sparked a thrilling comeback win against Indiana, and tied an MSU game that shouldn't have been close (unless offsides suddenly became a penalty in the Big Ten...which...if they haven't they really should make offsides a penalty in the Big Ten, even if it would ruin Dantonio's career).
For that, he has my respect.
Unless he starts dating Misopogal's sister or something, that's really all I need to root for him.
reads this blog then I hope he does see this thread. Maybe it will be a wake up call. And it also may go a lot farther to Tate hearing it from hear vs. other sources.
I would put money down that he would have greater success with less attitude and is'nt that what college is really about. Figuring out who and what you are?
nothing like a thread on the mgoboard to straighten out your attitude!
How soon we forget him giving it his all last year in the MSU game.
So you want the guy who would be our most experienced QB to transfer because he's cocky? And you justify it by saying he's quiet and citing a webpage his dad runs... I see no flaws in your logic.
Here's my take, which means next to nothing in the scheme of things.
I will be interested to see how Tate handles adversity this season. And I'm not talking on the field. Denard has made some significant gains since 2009 and he has a higher ceiling than Tate in terms of potential, IMO.
I think the two will split a lot of playing time early, and it is very possible that Denard wins the job outright.
Now, should this happen, I will be curious to see how Tate handles himself off the field. Will he complain about it or will he continue to work hard and support Denard?
Wow, the season really needs to get here. These threads are getting ridiculous. Maybe we can talk about actual football soon? Probably not, we're just going to cluck like a circle of chickens for a few months.
All kinds of threads get deleted/locked by the mods...
...and yet this one is left to stand?
I thought dude was a troll. Still don't know if he isn't to be honest.
100+ replies either make it an interesting thread or a troll thread, since its not interesting, I'll go with the latter choice.
If the OP isn't a troll himself, his thread certainly has attracted a lot of them. My guess is he isn't a troll. Immature? Yes, but I don't think he's purposely on here to start a flamewar.
with 1100 points...
But "jumpbalya" is trying real hard to get banned today
how about eliot mealer? that guys the biggest jerk. he is so selfish to come back after a tragedy and guilt everyone into giving him attention. and barwis, that fraud. i cant believe he would donate his own time to help out someone recovering from a spinal injury. some people.
There are some things that should not be used in a flame war. Call up this story if you simply want to give an example of the character of the Mealers, coaches, and our athletic department. But don't use it in a flame war - it only cheapens it.
Tate Forcier is
kind of arrogant but he
is good at football.
close, but Haikus are usually about nature. Nice try though, i'll still give you a +1 for using poetry.
Just think of this one as the exception that proves the rule.
No, but your opinion is the only one Tate cares about.
Tate is gonna be a great player (however I love Denard far more). Perhaps you are mistaking that southern California flakiness/confidence for arrogance? Tate is a modern day Jeff Garcia, another kid from San Diego who has a very specific style of play. And note, that Garcia was also accused of arrogance and such.
Aside, I'm surprised Tate hasn't been compared more, to Garcia, who by and large was a very good NFL QB, with the #5 jersey and all.
Tate has drawn comparisons to Garcia many times, both on this blog and in the Detroit media.
I remember seeing John Navarre (!) a couple of times on campus and, based on my completely uneducated eye, he looked pretty "cocky", what with his height and athletic ability and his name in the UM record books. I knew right then, staring at him silently while he passed, that he was a total d-bag who was a horrible teammate and who never should be allowed to wear a UM jersey, especially not one worn by suck humble characters as Desmond, Woodson, and Hart.
/s
Come on! This is big-time college football, and Tate Forcier is the presumptive favorite to be the starting QB at UM. I fully expect him to be a bit cocky, and given his size and the number of times people have doubted him, about the only chance he has to survive and succeed is to go out and believe that he is the best player on the field, in the Union, in the classroom, etc. The minute he stops believing that he is the best QB at UM is the day he might as well pack up his bag and sit on the bench.
And while I am all for Denard becoming the starting QB if he earns it on the field, let's look at this situation from Tate's perspective. Last year, as a true freshman, he took a pretty mediocre offense into one of the better ones in the conference, put together some transcedent performances, and played injured for most of the 2nd half of the season. Along the way, he was dissected and analyzed by all types of pundits, from ESPN personalities to the random MGoPoster. His coach, perhaps as motiviation, pointed out to the press when he succeeded and when he failed. He also had to contend with a new living situation, thousands of miles from home, in an academically-rigorous school.
All the while, he didn't complain to the press, he didn't say anything stupid along the lines of "everyone murders", and he kept his nose out of trouble (at least headline-generating trouble).
And for that, as soon as Denard showed some flashes of brilliance in summer workouts and the spring game, everyone annointed Denard the heir apparent and threw Tate behind both him and uber-recruit Gardner. People said he was immature, that he couldn't cut it in this system, that maybe he should transfer somewhere else. The local press treated him as an afterthought, and random bloggers started calling him an ass because he is quiet and isn't laughing all the time (and let's see how Denard acts after the fans skewer him for throwing 3 picks or fumbles twice in a game).
So yeah, taking all of this into account, I don't blame him for being a bit down, for being annoyed that he played against the #1 defense with the #2 offense while Denard received heaps of praise for his ability to carve up walk-ons. Is it a bit immature to post it on Facebook? Sure, but then again, show me a mature 19-year-old's Facebook page and I'll show a potential sting operation by Chris Hanson.
People don't freak out here if you question Tate because we have some crazy man-crush on him (okay, some of us do) provided you supply some tangible, coherent points behind your criticism. Questioning the kid's heart because he didn't shake everyone's hand as he walked across campus or struggles to adjust to constant criticism gives you absolutely no leg to stand on.
In terms of football maturity: injury dramatics, holding that ball out there, taking off and scrambling too soon (even before protection breaks down).
But he's a great player, and he'll be even better when realizes that working hard with his teammates and listening to his coaches is what's best for him right now.
Just needs to realize: there will be enough drama when he wins a National Championship for Michigan. Need only ask his dad
Edit: remember he was also gracious re. Denard's PT last year "you can't keep a talent like that off the field." We learned a lot about Denard in terms of not giving up when Tate took over. We'll learn a lot more about them both this year. I'm optimistic
Were you one of the people calling for him to win the Heisman after the ND game too?
I'm a fan of anyone who helps us win football games. End of story.
If this thread gets jumpbalya banned than it's the best tread ever. If it doesn't well at least you got to get some shit off your chest. Should Tate read this thread and have tears in his eyes, I will never be able to forgive you MgoDC.
I think people are way over reacting here. This guy is entitled to his opinion first of all. Everyone here keeps saying, "well as long as he wins I don't care." Well, this guy is saying he does care and he is allowed to think so.
Also, I think it is a valid topic to say hey, i don't really like player x, what does this rather large and representative group of michigan fans think about him. What is wrong with that?
I think he is perfectly entitled to not like Tate and to wonder what other peoples feelings are on him. To neg bang him and say that this topic and his opinion are dumb is imo...dumb.
For the record, I think Tate does come off as immature and a bit douchy, but you can put me in the camp of people who say as long as he wins I don't care. I am not saying he is that way, I am just saying he comes off that way and if he were on another team, I would make fun of my friends who were fans of said team
You (and the OP) don't have to like him. Calling him a "douchenozzle" and such is where it crosses the line.
If Tate wins games and steers clear of the law or NCAA then I don't care what kind of a person he is.
If Tate loses games and sucks or gets arrested or busted by the NCAA then I don't care what kind of a person he is.
I guess I just don't care. Partially, because I will never know Tate or talk to Tate so I have no way to judge his personality. But also because Tate is just a football player to me so I will tend to judge him on how he plays football.
p>
This guy was basically the Isner v. Mahut of douchiness; after such an epic display, no other douchiness will ever seem impressive.