Why no women's hockey at M?

Submitted by dcblue92 on

While watching olympic women's hockey, my wife asked me why Michigan doesn't have a women's hockey team. I did not have an answer. All of the olympians came from Minnesota, BC, North Dakota, etc. (i.e. traditional hockey powers).  I'm skeptical it's money because we know the athletic department prints money and they could find a donor if needed. It would be a Title IX bonus, allowing an additional men's program if needed?  

gbdub

March 10th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^

All those benefits you list are great, but they are concentrated on the tiny number of students (relative to the whole school population) that actually get to participate in varsity sports. It’s also not clear that you can’t get all those benefits out of a club sport. If no one is going to watch, you’re talking about spending a couple million a year to benefit a few dozen students.

Mr Miggle

March 10th, 2018 at 8:49 AM ^

But the large majority of schools outside of those lose money even on football. Men's basketball is often the only sport that turns a profit, if any do. Even at major schools every varsoty sport but football and men's basketball loses money, with some exceptions for hockey and a few for women's basketball. 

Fan interest and expenses are important considerations for adding or keeping varsity sports. Generating profits is not.

 

Wolverine Devotee

March 9th, 2018 at 2:46 PM ^

Great thread. Should I ever be AD at U-M, it'll happen within 3 years. Back in the 90s, it was either add Water Polo or W Hockey. They chose Water Polo because of cost and maybe a little politics with Red not wanting to share Yost as I've heard rumored. Water Polo hasn't even played over 30% of their games at home. Couple years ago WP played a grand total of 1 home game with the rest on the West or East coast. I can't imagine the cost is that different. What's annoying is seeing Jesse Compher and Cara Piazza having to go play elsewhere because we don't have a team. There are 0 D1 women's teams in MI. Outrageous.

bronxblue

March 9th, 2018 at 2:44 PM ^

It is weird that they don't have a team.  They have the facilities, the culture at Michigan around hockey is healthy, and there should be a good amount of local talent to jump-start a decent program.

I assume, like always, it's about money.  But I'd like to know why.

KBGoBlue

March 9th, 2018 at 4:34 PM ^

I'm not sure if UM really does "have the facilities." Many schools with two varsity hockey programs have mutiple sheets of ice. Yost only has one, and its historic status and location next to other buildings means it can't easily be expanded to add a second practice rink. Sure, the teams could share - but that would cut down on community access to the rink, broomball, etc. 

 

I agree that a women's program be added if the Athletic Department wanted to make it happen. But some sacrifices would need to be made to provide two teams with proper facility access.

Alton

March 9th, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^

Yost doesn't even have room for a visitor's locker room for men's hockey, let alone 2 more locker rooms (home & away) for women.  

At some point, Michigan is going to need to have a long conversation about Yost ice Arena.  They have renovated it so much that it's starting to look like a person who has had too many plastic surgeries.  The visitor's locker room situation, plus the sterile seating with huge gaps between the fans and the glass, plus the luxury seating that's half-empty even on the biggest days, plus the ice in the southwest corner that never quite manages to freeze until halfway through each period...it's a mess.  Which is sad, because it was a great place to watch hockey. 

At some point in the next 5-25 years, Michigan is going to have to bite the bullet, beg an alum for $50 million to $100 million dollars, and build a new hockey rink with a less historic name attached to it.

I'm sure that once that happens, Michigan will get a women's hockey team.

stephenrjking

March 9th, 2018 at 6:21 PM ^

Jarring to see you say this so frankly, but it probably needs to be said. Sometimes I worry that Michigan is going to get left behind in hockey because the facilities will no longer be competitive. 

I wonder what an arena project would look like; we're talking a minimum $100 million expense right now. But there's nowhere left to go for Yost, and as it stands the only seats readily available to new fans that aren't students are the marginal ones in the north endzone that nobody wanted last Friday. I feel like the fanbase is somewhat capped by this; when I had an opportunity to buy season tickets 15 years ago I certainly balked when I saw where they'd be located.

father fisch

March 9th, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^

The University of Michigan-Dearborn will be adding an ACHA-D1 Women’s Ice Hockey team starting with the 2018-19 season.The women’s hockey program has the full support of the University of Michigan-Dearborn admissions department and our athletic department, as we are in the process of building a competitive program. This program gives women student athletes a chance to compete and continue to play hockey in the ACHA-D1 for the University of Michigan-Dearborn. The University of Michigan-Dearborn Women’s Hockey Team will be skating on campus at UM-Dearborn Ice Arena which has a seating capacity of 1,000 located within the Fieldhouse. Both practice and games will be scheduled at prime times, therefore leaving quality time for course studies. The program is funded by the university, therefore, the cost passed on to the player is very minimal. Any interested student athletes feel free to contact Coach Tim Ames regarding more information about the program, or to schedule a campus visit.

Leatherstocking Blue

March 9th, 2018 at 3:01 PM ^

I don't think we can discount the halo effect from the US Women's hockey team. It must have had some impact on yourng girls watching. 

Plus there's room to do creative marketing at women's games. I was at a Colgate-Syracuse women's hockey game with a Tuesday noon start time. What could have been an attendance disaster was mitigated by bringing in no fewer than 10 elementary schools. Those kids can scream.

GPCharles

March 9th, 2018 at 3:19 PM ^

but when I started school in fall of 1971, the men's varsity hockey team played at the Colliseum on Hill Street across the side street from Fingerle Lumber.

Now that was a dump.  Seats on only one side of the arena.

Best college hockey arena I have ever seen is Ingalls Rink at Yale designed by Eero Saarinen and nicknamed The Whale.  Roof is made of wood.

m83econ

March 9th, 2018 at 3:27 PM ^

How many money losing sports are enough? If women's hockey is added, something needs to go, although it could be financed in part by jettisoning a half dozen administrators in the AD.

tlo2485

March 9th, 2018 at 4:09 PM ^

When we chose Water Polo over Hockey for a women's program (I believe this is when we added men's soccer?) it was the same time Ohio State was adding a program, which for them was Women's Ice Hockey. They really wanted us to add hockey simultaneously to form a rivalry, but we chose otherwise.

Which men's team would you want to add if we had an opening by adding a women's team? Does Title IX say it has to be equal or it just has to have as many or more women's scholarships? 

I think Michigan could be competitive in Men's Rowing.... beyond that? Men's volleyball? Water Polo? What are the strongest men's club teams currently?

Mark46

March 9th, 2018 at 4:41 PM ^

It probably doesn't help that it's not a B1G sport. The only varsity sport that's not B1G sport that we have is water polo and the only reason that we have that is because Bill Martin gave in to a Regent who wanted water polo.

ST3

March 9th, 2018 at 4:41 PM ^

     The AD has priorities and the #1 priority is football. Sure, we could probably come up with $1M or so to upgrade a club team to varsity status, but then we'd have to cut back on the football side of things, and what would the team do without fourth member of the facilities staff, Biff Bunten?

    And to answer folks saying no one is going to go the games, who cares? The Big 10 network is seriously in need of some more programming options. Would you rather watch, The Journey, for a 10th time or catch a women's hockey game? I know what I'd rather watch.

http://mgoblue.com/sports/2017/6/28/sports-m-footbl-coaches.aspx

In addition to the head coach and 10 assistants, we have (and yes, I pasted the whole list to show how ridiculous this is):

Recruiting & Personnel

Sean Magee - Director of Player Personnel and Administration
Matt Dudek - Director of Recruiting
Cooper Petagna - Recruiting Coordinator
Aaron Bills - Graphic Designer
Ty Rogers - Multimedia Coordinator
Chris Bryant - Director of High School Relations
Joe Schwartzmiller - Recruiting Intern
Connor Anderson - Recruiting Intern

Operations & Performance

Mark Taurisani - Director of Operations
Fergus Connolly - Director of Performance Science
Scott Goldschmidt - Assistant Director of Operations
Kelly King - Operations Administrative Manager
Michelle Guidry-Pan - Schembechler Hall Administrative Assistant
Tony Jones - Operations Intern

Analysts

Kevin Lempa - Senior Defensive Analyst
Tyler Brown - Special Teams Analyst
Devin Bush - Defensive Analyst
Elijah Sandweiss - Defensive Analyst

Football Administration

Al Ades - Analytics Coordinator
Jon Falk - Assistant to Coach Harbaugh
Jack Harbaugh - Senior Advisor to Coach Harbaugh
J.T. Rogan - Director of Internal Communications and Operations for Coach Harbaugh

Football Interns

Chad Antonelli - Football Intern
Jordan Kovacs - Football Intern
Alfonso Smith - Football Intern
Todd Storm - Football Intern

Strength & Conditioning

Ben Herbert - Director of Strength & Conditioning

Medicine/Athletic Training

Dave Granito - Papadopoulos Family Director of Athletic Training (Football)
Phil Johnson - Football Athletic Trainer
Jason Williams - Football Athletic Trainer
Pierre Nesbit - Football Athletic Trainer
Griffin Haddad - Football Athletic Training Graduate Assistant

Video Staff

Phil Bromley - Video Coordinator
Kevin Undeen - Video Assistant

Equipment Staff

Gary Hazelitt - Director of Equipment and Internal Operations
Sonny Anderson - Assistant Equipment Manager

Schembechler Hall

Kris Barnes - Director of Facilities
Biff Bunten - Facilities
Rob Woodruff - Facilities
Jeff Pipkin - Facilities

Academics

Steve Connelly - Director of Academic Services
Claiborne Green - Coordinator of Football Academic Services

Communications

Dave Ablauf - Associate AD/Football Communications
Chad Shepard - Assistant Director, Communications

ST3

March 9th, 2018 at 6:40 PM ^

Certainly wouldn't be the first time.

If we're not going to pay the players, the other options for spending the football revenues include expanding options for non-revenue athletes and paying for 45 support personnel. That's 1 support person for every 2 players. You don't find that ridiculous?

Iowa lists 29 football staffers including coaches. 55 vs. 29. BTW, they ended up with the same 8-5 record as Michigan. Sure would be nice if the 26 additional staffers did something to improve the bottom line. The football program is bloated and inefficient. I can admit that. Can you?

https://hawkeyesports.com/coaches.aspx?path=football

 

ST3

March 9th, 2018 at 11:02 PM ^

An argument is that Women's hockey is too expensive. I didn't posit that argument. I am merely suggesting that there is money available if the AD chose to spend it on hockey instead of 55 football staffers. If anything, that's a rational, room temperature take, and no straw was involved in making it. It's fine that you disagree with me about college Hockey. I just wish you would put some thought into your response instead of your knee-jerk "straw man hot take" nonsense.

Bando Calrissian

March 10th, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^

Well, the point is that's not really how it works. There's no one at 1000SSS looking at the budget saying "well, football needs fifteen quality control specialists now, so cancel the women's hockey planning."

In a perfect world without finances, you can have all the sports you want. But in a world with department budgets and, well, reality, extremely expensive sports like women's hockey are a hard sell to get off the ground when there really isn't fan interest, nor the money to do it. Michigan shouldn't be, and isn't in the business of adding sports merely because it would be cool to have Sport X, Y, or Z.