OT: net neutrality vote today.

Submitted by Dayday on
I haven't seen this thread anywhere; so my apologies if this has already been discussed. I hear a lot of people freaking out about today's vote and to be honest I haven't read enough to fully understand the ramifications or benefits. Those who really knew what's going on; I would like to know you think about it? Is it good? Is it bad? Should we celebrate or should we run for the hills?

lawlright

December 14th, 2017 at 7:45 AM ^

What sucks is you take this site right here for example, endgame for ISPs would be to pit sites against each other for profit. So say Comcast went to Mgoblog and said "your rival site is willing to pay us an extra $1000/month for "guaranteed hosting access" or some term they'll make up to sound important that basically means either give us more money OR access to your site via our Network will be slower.

Yabadabablue

December 14th, 2017 at 8:50 AM ^

I mean, it could work the other way too where websites or even the customer say fuck you and go with ATT over comcast or choose somebody like WOW who gives better deals than everybody else, forcing other ISPs to lower their prices. if there is enough competition Supply = Demand, but i think most of us are scared with how high our demand is for the internet as well as the fact that there is so little competition for ISPs. 

BlueMarrow

December 14th, 2017 at 7:58 AM ^

That's pretty much the key to life: laugh about it. I'm old. Take it from me, I've seen a lot.

The bottom line:

The man knows what you are doing. You are on this site for free.

He's challenged because you left TV and newspapers, because he was making money off of you watching TV and reading newspapers.

The man must make money. The man is smart, and he will find a way.

The man will be paid.

It's just a question of how, when and how much.

The from whom?

Everyone.

BlueWon

December 14th, 2017 at 7:58 AM ^

and the FCC chief's last position was as Chief Legal Counsel for Verizon.

Nothing more you really need to know.

Full-on banana republic.

Badfish02

December 14th, 2017 at 8:06 AM ^

The history of government involvement in communication is riddled with technology suppression. AM to FM, cellular technology, TV you name it. Government involvement suppresses and controls. The reason the Internet is what it is today is due to the innovation created during the Wild West phase of it.

Fairness isn’t guaranteed. If you want faster internet budget more money personally to it. Don’t regulate it to punish everyone. This world is such a bunch of sky is falling bitch boys these days

ats

December 14th, 2017 at 8:13 AM ^

The Internet was/is quite literally government funded and invented.  You're entire argument is void.  Government money funded the whole thing from the basic protocols to the basic technologies right down to HTTP.  All government bankrolled.  Christ, the internet was literally designed to be a nuclear safe communications network in the event of WWIII.  If it wasn't for the government, the Internet literally wouldn't exist.

 

 

ats

December 14th, 2017 at 8:26 AM ^

Joke all you want, but the Internet WAS a government invention, payed for with government money. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

That was the beginning of the Internet.  And then the government further funded its expansion via NSFNet/CSNET/etc.  Hell, Michigan has a prominent place in Internet history via MERIT and their oversight of the network backbone for almost a decade. 

Badfish02

December 14th, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^

Couldn’t have launched their IPhone with NN in place the way they did. Ownership over content and App Store was only granted by ATT that being the sole provider of the phone in the early going. If NN was the law at that time apple would have needed to allow all providers to have it regardless of their wishes bc it’s fair to everyone. Just a recent example of how innovation is stifled by regulation. It’s a mindset of Corp are out to get you. Corp are people A and want profits B. Fundamental misconception. I need Govment in all aspects of life cause I’m a pussy and can’t fend for myself.

Mack Tandonio

December 14th, 2017 at 3:25 PM ^

Apple is not a telecommunication service and is not regulated under title II of the Communication Act. Whether or not they should be able to dictate which carriers suport their devices is open to debate, but it certainly has nothing to do with net neutrality. 

Cherry picking revolutionary devices that made it big despite lack of NN rules being in place is stupid because that device only exists because of good regulation. If it weren't for NN principles, the internet might not exist as it is today as telecos would have faught against hooking modems to phone lines just like they did carterfone, hush-a-phone, and eventually answering machines and fax machines.

Go suck an egg and take your stupid articles with you.

Mack Tandonio

December 14th, 2017 at 2:49 PM ^

Your post and argument are so incoherent I can't figure out what you're trying to say. If NN laws were in place apple would not have been able to engage in what you think is anticompetetive behavior, but NN wasn't the law of the land so therefor regulations are bad because they weren't in place? 

BlueWon

December 14th, 2017 at 11:36 AM ^

All they did was buy big Internet ports in major cities (DTW, Flint, etc.) where access was cheap and then backhaul access to cities around Michigan via frame relay. For a while they politically blackmailed universities in Michigan into buying their service. UM was one of the first to go around them by buying dark fiber from A2 to the NAP in Chicago.

They didn't develop technology. They were just a tier two ISP whose ole died when fiber MAN's expanded.

ats

December 14th, 2017 at 12:07 PM ^

Eh?  You might want to look into the actual history of MERIT.  It was a joint NGO founded by UM, MSU, and WSU.  And they literally developed and ran the NSFNet. MERIT was literally a contemporary of ARPANET. 

They may of become a joke, but they certainly didn't start as one. 

BlueWon

December 14th, 2017 at 6:28 PM ^

and all they did was to piece together a frame relay backbone (first T1 and later DS3)Internet  in MI using leased lines providing access to severely oversubscribed ports.

They did not develop any technology whatsoever (and neither did NSF Net). Merit was just an early ISP. The proliferation of fiber wiped them, and all others like them, out.

Badfish02

December 14th, 2017 at 8:30 AM ^

government isn’t a living breathing thing and has no ability to create wealth correct? The Engineers and bankroll “our taxes” would have created similar technology in the free market.

The free market IS what created the internet as we know it today. Not the pentagon and their nuclear safe communication network.

Reader71

December 14th, 2017 at 4:24 PM ^

This is both besides the point and wrong. The FCC, a government agency, just created a lot of potential wealth for ISPs. It’s not always as simple as government = bad, corporation = good. This was basically a corporation v corporation battle in which the government picked the side that hurt people (consumers) most.

Reader71

December 14th, 2017 at 11:48 PM ^

Corporations are a form of government regulation. There is no right to incorporate without the government. There is no way to recognize a corporation without government. There is no reason to incorporate without government created tax laws.

SMart WolveFan

December 14th, 2017 at 9:36 AM ^

The Government wanted to protect "information" just in case they blew up the whole world playing their MADenning "pew pew" games, so they took our forebears' money, Tesla's notebook and built the infrastructure.

And now, after they shockingly didn't get us all killed, instead of giving back the internet to the people who funded it and spent many hours in fallout shelters (internet woulda been great there eh?), the Government hands off charging us to the people who have proven to be the greatest extractors of profit while providing the least useful and least quaility content....cable companies!

I wonder what most people will choose?

Pay a hacker a $1 for unlimited content......or pay for cable?

BlueWon

December 14th, 2017 at 9:29 AM ^

The current issue comes down to pay lanes for IP prioritization and access. Companies like Verizon and ATT (who bought their way into the Internet and didn't develop it btw) see companies like Google and Netflix making money on the backbone and want to set up private toll booths.

There is a reason the US is behind other developed countries in terms of ISP speeds and it is precisely because the industry has morphed into an oligopoly without regulation. The FCC will eventually have to unbundled the last mile like they did for UNPI for voice fifteen years ago. The ILEC's still own most of the last mile in the US and it inhibits both wireless and wireline competition. NN just guarantees the oligopolists can't control the backbone, too, which is their desire.

BTW, Verizon makes about $12B in profits anually.

njsteve

December 14th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^

The transformation of the industry into an oligopoly has been aided by lots of state laws passed at the behest of the telecom industry that prevent local governments from creating local ISPs. In places where this hasn't been prevented, there are several success stories where cities have provided better service at lower prices than big telecom. The industry has spent a huge amount of money trying to prevent these services legislatively, rather than compete with them on price/service. Makes it hard to take seriously the claims that "the market will sort this out."

WeimyWoodson

December 14th, 2017 at 10:02 AM ^

Especially your quote on what the world is filled with.  Get with the trends of what makes things better for all people.  Lot of people had your "bitch boy" mentality in regards to the Civil Rights Movement, don't be ignorant and be on the wrong side of history. 

WeimyWoodson

December 14th, 2017 at 3:46 PM ^

It's a lot more then just Internet speed.  Its the fact that major corporations would be controlling the information we would be able to see.  If they are slowing down sites where you get a large portion of your information and then direct you towards an area where you normally do not that would be control over your information.  It's a slippery slope.

In regards to Civil Rights Movement, that was fighting for a group of minorities to have equal rights.  It does not have to come down to skin color for people to want to fight for equal rights.  There have been numerous uprisings throughout histroy of "douches whining" about tyrants and fighting representation. 

The Mad Hatter

December 14th, 2017 at 8:15 AM ^

you put a stamp on it and the Postal Service delivers it to the sender.  Today, the internet works in much the same way.

Removing NN would allow the Postal Service (ISP's) to take your stamped letter, that you already paid for, and demand that the person you're sending it to pay for it again.

Telcoms want to double dip and get paid on both ends.  Because charging 2x-5x what other countries do for internet service that is probably 1/10th as fast, just isn't good enough for Verizon's shareholders.

This whole thing is just disgusting. 

The new "normal".

JBDaddy

December 14th, 2017 at 9:56 AM ^

The Post Office has different classes of mail (bulk/first/overnight, etc) with different rates and speeds.  I've seen the argument that repealing NN would allow ISPs to have similar tiered cost/speed options.  I tend to oppose government intervention in anything, but I appreciate the ruling body utility in matters of safety and commerce, etc.  I'm not pro or con here... Why is the tiered traffic case different than the Post Office case?

Thanks.

 

The Mad Hatter

December 14th, 2017 at 10:17 AM ^

We already have a tiered internet service.  You pay the ISP for how much speed you want, and in some places how much data.

But only one party is paying.  If I'm sending you a package, I pay the shipping fees and you pay nothing.

Under the new rules I'll pay to send you the package, and you'll pay to receive it.