Breakdown Sports: Shea Patterson Film Breakdown and How He Fits
December 8th, 2017 at 10:23 AM ^
them a little? I tend to agree that if you lose Peters over this. . . it's a gamble. Could say something about what Harbaugh sees in Peters, I suppose, but I can't imagine that it doesn't bother Peters. After overcoming the two guys in front of him, it looked like he had obtained the key to the highway.
Having said all that, Patterson plays with a verve and giddyup that could really be what the team has lacked.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:20 AM ^
Other than the Florida game this year, I don't think Harbaugh's ever gone into a game with a plan to play two QBs.* Other than that, he seems like a proponent of the "if you have 2 starting QBs, you have no starting QB" school of thought.
*And given the circumstances of O'Korn's insertion into the Florida game, I'm not 100% sold that O'Korn playing was predetermined (most people have said it was the plan from the beginning, so I'm like 80% confident that it was the plan, but he did come in after the two pick-6s, and they did call three seemingly doomed running plays in his first series, so I'm still a bit doubtful).
December 8th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^
Very nice breakdown. Definitely seems like a rich man's JOK, which you can take negatively or positively. As you say, if you assume this doesn't affect Peters, it gives you another option, especially given Michigan's OL protection issues. A guy that can scramble and makes plays is a good option right now. I am about 60/40 that he wins the job but I think Peters has a great chance at starting also. Seems like it is happening so it should be an interesting ride.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^
That Peters didn't beat out O'Korn. He might not have that burn that Harbaugh desires in the position. I don't know if that is the case, but if he feels he is best served getting a kid as a transfer, as opposed to rolling with a kid that has been in the system for 1 1/2 years, and should have a firm grasp of the system, I think we should trust that. Ultimately maybe Jim just see's Shea as a buffer to Dylan McCaffrey. If Peter's tranfers, it was just a matter of time before McCaffrey took his spot anyway. I don't really see a downside. Maybe Peters was a "miss". It happens more time than not. If he is good enough to play, he will play.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^
have absolutely no evidence that Peters is a "miss." Nobody has said that, and he looked good when he played. It sucks that such a discussion is even being had when he is prepping to play in his first bowl game for this team.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:33 AM ^
I said MAYBE. I just think it's weird that the offense never really opened up, just a little more when he came in. They ran more passing stuff with O'Korn, than Peters, knowing O'Korns limitations. The depth thing is a big reason to accept a transfer, and the Peters concussion could be a factor, or maybe they just think that Patterson is a better QB, and can help us win now.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:15 AM ^
why Peters was behind O'Korn, especially considering he has more talent. There has to be a reason for that, and I don't think it's that Harbaugh made a mistake.
Patterson is a talented player that provides experience and depth to a team that needs both. Bring him in and let the chips fall where they may. We needed three Q's this year. Maryland used like 14. Injuries happen. Transfers happen.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:28 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 10:40 AM ^
So that leads me to believe that there was a different reason. Maybe something not related to his playing ability.
I don't know and I don't think we'll ever know.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:25 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
I gotta bite on this one. How exactly was Coach Harbaugh wrong about Kaep vs. Smith?
Note: I am Niners fanatic and season ticket holder for most my life. I am VERY excited to hear this one...Please make it good!
December 8th, 2017 at 2:08 PM ^
December 9th, 2017 at 3:31 PM ^
and didn't want to get to the situation in which it would be hard for the team to take the short term hit to go back to an unexperienced D-Caff when an experienced Peters would be the clearly better short term option.
Of course, Harbaugh is the coach and he could always take that short term hit if he thought it was best in the long run.
I dunno.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:28 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 10:34 AM ^
Why didn't he know the playbook better? Was he not willing to put in the time and effort to learn it?
December 8th, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 2:39 PM ^
an EE.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:01 AM ^
after Speight went down? And Speight said he golfed too much when he was a true freshman. He knew he was redshirting and wasn't as motivated as he should have been.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:29 AM ^
I still thinks this sucks for Peters, but he didn't really win the QB competition this year so much as O'Korn completely cratered. I think Peters played fairly well, but the job wasn't locked down for him against McCaffery next year anyway. Brady credits the Drew Henson competition (which sucked and I think was mishandled) as making him the competitor he is today. It's great to have 3-4 year starters, but in the future I think the QBs will be getting 1-2 years as we'll have dudes lined up.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:38 AM ^
against Speight either.
Suppose Speight doesn't transfer and he wins the starting job for 2018. How is that situation any different than the one our current players are in now, other than Patterson having an extra year (assuming he doesn't have to sit in 2018)?
December 9th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^
will switch to defense
December 8th, 2017 at 10:37 AM ^
(admittedly uninformed but long pondered) opinion on the subject is that it actually was a miscalculation of Harbaughs part. I think that Speight v. Peters was actually very close, and that when Speight was given the job, Peters went into a little bit of a funk. I think that Harbaugh responded to Peters' checking out a little by demoting Peters behind O'Korn (when that really was not at all foretold by anything including the Spring game where Peters looked good and O'Korn was not even an afterthought). I think this was done as an attempt to motivate Peters, but that it also resulted in O'Korn taking second string reps and Peters not being adquately prepared to step in because of the demotion.
At that point, I think Harbaugh had no choice but to role with O'Korn through MSU and Penn State and just pray to god that O'Korn could fake his way to a win against MSU while just accepting the savage beating from Penn State, and then get Peters on the field ASAP. God responded with a monsoon and the State game then happened.
So, yes, I think it was actually a miscalculation. I don't think O'Korn was ever really close to on par with Peters and that Speight's injury was just a major kink in what was supposed to be a maturation process for Peters. I think the miscalculation was to not consider the possibility of a long-term Speight injury. It would not have been that severe of an issue if we could have gotten out of the MSU game with a win.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:58 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 11:47 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^
If you believe all the hype, and all the reports, even from trusted posters that contribute to this site, it was Speight and O'Korn from the Rome trip into fall camp. If Peters (according to your uninformed theory, and I'm not taking a shot at you) was even with Speight he would have been given more reps in practice. He after all was the future and O'Korn is a senior. All coaches and logic will tell you, if a senior isn't better than a freshman, you roll with the freshman as a backup. Simple.
I don't think Harbaugh plays games like knocking a kid below a lesser talented player, as a backup, to motivate that kid, when all that does is give a kid with more talent less opportunities. Now, I understand that this is speculation on both of our parts, but it just isn't logical to believe that, and if its true, Peters isn't mentally strong enough to lead a team. Not to mention this plays against Jim's meritocracy system.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:25 PM ^
I can believe two things. I can believe:
1) my theory or some variation on that theory; or,
2) that Jim MF Harbaugh actually thought O'Korn was a better QB than Peters.
#2 is literally impossible, or our coach is not who we thought he was.
While it may be possible that I am not spot on with all of the details in my theory, I won't hear of it that Harbaugh and the coaching staff watched John O'Korn every day and believed going into the season that John O'Korn was really a better option than Brandon Peters.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:44 PM ^
And you're clearly a Peters fan (I was/am a Speight fan), but I just can't shake the feeling that there's something more to it.
I can't put my finger on it, but there's something with Harbaugh and Peters. I know he recruited him hard and the guy obviously has talent, but I just feel like maybe they don't get along or see eye to eye.
Maybe it's a personality thing, maybe a practice thing, I don't know. But I feel like Harbaugh just doesn't trust him as the QB.
I could be off my rocker though.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:39 PM ^
I remember a clip of Harbaugh chewing Speight's ass out in practice (winter 2015?). It obviously worked.
I've said before that Harbaugh is maybe a little aspie (normal people don't play baseball by themselves for 8 hours when they're 9 years old) and I wonder if that makes it hard for him to relate with different personality types?
Still, Peters is the player. If he wants to make it to the NFL it's his job to figure out what Harbaugh wants and give it to him.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:35 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 7:33 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^
I agree with you. And I am a Peters fan, but I was also a Speight fan. Obviously we are just speculating, but I think the source of the "thing" you are identifying with Harbaugh and Speight is likely the result of Peters' reaction to Speight being named the starter. The kid is 19, I am sure he did a little bit of pouting and that is not the reaction that Harbaugh wanted, or maybe expected. But probably what Peters needed there was a pep talk, not a demotion, particularly when the coaches had to have known that JOK was that JOK and not the one that we hoped for. If QB is going to be an open competition every year, there is going to be some personality and ego management that come along with that. I think it is possible that Harbaugh just did not play that situation the right way.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 1:08 PM ^
that could be, actually. It seems his recruiting trend is a little bit more toward dual-threat-ish tye guys too so, yeah, that doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:29 PM ^
To me, your second point ("Jim MF Harbaugh actually thought O'Korn was a better QB than Peters.") depends on how you define "better". Maybe Harbaugh recognized that Peters was more physically talented, but went with O'Korn because he felt JOK's leadership and standing on the team put him ahead of Peters.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:35 PM ^
I forget whether it was Ace, Brian or someone else, but they noted in a thread not too long ago that JOK performed much better in practices then he did in the games.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:15 PM ^
I think the reality is that they didn't trust Peters yet. As Reader said above, the game plans for Peters were even more limited and protective than the JOK gameplans, and I think they also didn't consistently trust Peters to get them in the correct play, especially prior to the Rutgers game.
Folks can say after the Rutgers game that clearly Peters was the better QB. He certainly was at that time. It doesn't mean he was before then (he may not have been well enough prepared before then). So Harbaugh may have made a mistake not playing Peters, it may not have at all been obvious before the Rutgers game, and before the Rutgers game it may have been obvious that Peters wasn't ready (and didn't need his confidence broken by playing before being ready).
December 8th, 2017 at 12:00 PM ^
This is exactly what I think happened.
December 8th, 2017 at 1:32 PM ^
"O'Korn could fake his way to a win against MSU while just accepting the savage beating from Penn State, and then get Peters on the field ASAP."
But he didn't get Peters on the field ASAP - JOK started against Rutgers.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:08 PM ^
brings me to a possible variation on theory. Perhaps Harbaugh was not even going to crack even after the Penn State game, but then he realized the we were in a dogfight against Rutgers at home and then he really, really had no choice.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:04 PM ^
He didn't want to play Peters, but he didn't really have a choice. I think Harbaugh saw what was happening and decided that we were not going to lose to Rutgers! That would have been terrible for the team, especially after what we did to them in 2016.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^
He'd already done it twice in an earlier game. It's one thing to make mistakes trying to make something happen, another to make errors with no upside, just a lapse of very basic fundamentals.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:45 PM ^
I remember Lloyd Carr saying it : Game experience >> lots of other things. Wasn't a miscalculation, you play the QB with more experience. That was OKorn. Unfortunately he seems to have crumpled under the pressure or soemthing.
December 8th, 2017 at 2:57 PM ^
play the QB with experience." Like, that is the end of the calculation?
December 8th, 2017 at 3:11 PM ^
December 12th, 2017 at 2:11 AM ^
Because Peters was better than O'Korn in a way that was immediately obvious within a couple minutes of Peters taking the field.
December 8th, 2017 at 8:20 PM ^
"I remember Lloyd Carr saying it : Game experience >> lots of other things. Wasn't a miscalculation, you play the QB with more experience. That was OKorn. Unfortunately he seems to have crumpled under the pressure or soemthing."
First, I totally agree with the above when all else has been considered. The reason I ask if it were Lloyd is due to the way he tried to force Drew into the starting lineup over Tom. Now, given Drew's ranking a little leeway is understandable. However, this was not the only time he did this. Leaks coming from Inside the Fort gave a strong indication he was leaning toward Henne over Gutz even prior to the injury.
As stated, i agree as I feel most would with the above paragraph. However, in regard to Carr, the words seem contrary to action.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:43 PM ^
I think given the overwhelming difference in on-field performance there was almost certainly a miscalculation in playing O'Korn over Peters. Even the best make mistakes, hopefully it's something the staff can learn from and incorporate into future playing time decisions. Again, not criticizing coaches in any way, just seems that perhaps there's something to learn from in the result. We all do this sort of thing in our lives and jobs I think - make an informed guess, see the outcome, and loop the feedback into future decision making. Recognizing a miscalculation is nothing to knock.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:06 AM ^
If you don't mind me asking a meta question: what plugin are you using for Comments? I like how it has me signed in via Google.