Gary v. Bosa
OSU fan here. Given that it is slow, I thought that I would tip you off that OSU fans expect there to be a lot of arguments the next two years regarding whether Rashan Gary or Nick Bosa is the better player.
Arguments for Gary: you already know them. I do not dispute any of them, and expect him to be elite.
Arguments for Bosa: OSU press has reported that OSU coaches think that (1) Nick has been better than his brother Joey at the same age (in HS and as college freshman). I think each team would be thrilled if either player has the career that Joey did (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/joey_bosa_854118.html) (2) Nick was the best player on the team last year (Nick played limited snaps, particularly early, since he was recovering from injury).
Freshman stats: I think they are meaningless, since both players were behind excellent upper classman. If you are neverthelss curious, Nick's were a little better -- 5 sacks/7 TFL for Nick v. 1/5 for Gary.
Obviously, too early to call, and each team likes there guy.
be a better player, Bosa will have better stats.
One thing Brown does is have good players do hard things, so players who aren't as good can't get picked on. I mean, a lot of coaches do that but in the case of the SDE, they have to set the edge, direct traffic on spread rushes, and keep the VIPER!!! clean. It's disciplined work, so while Gary will get his share of sacks, they'll be mostly opportunistic. He can't and won't attack the ball with reckless abandon or he'll just get optioned off.
It's the same story as Peppers being "overrated" because he had "only one interception". Brown got testy over that assessment, earlier saying (in a different interview) that it's "almost criminal" what they were asking Peppers to do, which was basically a defensive Swiss army knife. As good as the playmakers are, Brown gets the defense to #1 by making the whole greater than the parts.
OSU's defense is the opposite. It's a conventional anti-spread quarters (a modern-day Iowa? is there such a thing?) with massively talented, coached-up horror monsters everywhere from the depths of. . . well, Columbus. They'll play their assignments but there's also built-in opportunity to rack up stats; they basically go four-DEs on passing downs and bet you can't get the ball out before your QB dies.
nice, pretty fair summary
You used the words "modern" and "Iowa" in the same sentence. About football! That is awesome.
(I did read the rest of your post, and it was very good. Plus 1)
You do get the fact that he wasn't saying Iowa was modern don't you?
I think I was getting props for being able to pull it off. I'm, like, a fuckin' wordsmith, man.
I was just making fun of Iowa. Because, Iowa.
I had hoped that the line praising the overall quality of the post and the plus 1 would make it clear that I wasn't taking issue with Mustache's post. [Edit - I guess the "rest of" left that a bit up in the air. So, yeah, fair point. Still, can we all agree that Iowa sucks?]
I hear they have a killer fan site on Geocities.
Ohio State runs about 5 more plays per game than Michigan does. 5 more plays a game averages out to 60 extra plays in the regular season. Ohio State also hired Kevin Wilson, so I think it's a reasonable expectation for that number to drastically increase. I don't know how much interest Jim Harbaugh has in going faster, but Nick Bosa is going to have more opportunities to get great numbers specifically because of the system as well. He's an absolute terror on the edge, so I don't want to make it seem like I'm trying to knock him for that.
in the B10 for the nation's top DE. I'll pick Gary, by a little.
youd take winovich over bosa? on a football field?
i see the snide remarks about osu (and im usually all for it, provided its funny) - just curious if you actually think hes a better asset on the teams 85? tough to tell when the sarcasm ends (if ever) in some of these posts, thats all.
winovich comes across as a squared away yet interesting cat and i like his style of play, attitude, etc and think hes an ascending player (as harbaugh puts it) - but bosa is a future 1st rounder while chase most likely is not. i think winovich may lead m in sacks this fall and hes a key cog but bosa is a different kind of prospect
Both great players, but Gary's stats should skyrocket this rear. Every time that large man wearing number 3 was on the field, I couldn't help but lock in on him. He had a ton of delayed pressures, played contain, sometimes covered backs in the flat and that set things up nicely for his teammates. I expect him to be unleashed as a pure pass rusher this year.
He also seemed to get held every time he went on a pass rush. I swear my opinion is not biased.
Eh, who knows. My understanding is that Bosa will likely fill more of a dedicated pass-rusher role, but nothing is guaranteed here. Stats are granted to be meaningless, but extra-meaningless from a freshman year in which Gary was fighting for playing time with a bunch of NFL-ready draft picks.
Gary projects to be better given profiles and measurables. How things actually play out are anybody's guess. I don't find this to be a particularly interesting question right now even as UM-OSU player-to-player comparisons go (the RB questions involves a recruiting either/or, the QB situation features flawed but experienced signal-callers, the OLs were the weak spots of the team, etc). But then, it's OT season and there's not much to talk about, so I'm not going to object to the topic, either.
They will probably want to do this with DPJ and Grimes or something, but won't be able to because lower ranked Black is going to kill it this year along with DPJ and there freshman probably barely see the field.
You and/or OSU coaches think Nick Bosa was your best player last year? What the fuck are you saying.
Who upvoted him 119 times to allow him to post this?
he admitted to being an OSU fan until he could post on the board. That's how....
I read through his posting history quickly, he admitted to being an OSU fan a number of times, and he hasn't been a troll. Pretty decent poster actually, based on what I saw.
I'm not a big fan of the question but it's not a troll post and it's not mean or nasty. Honestly, the idea that Michigan fans can't appreciate or upvote or fail to downvote someone just because they're an OSU fan is silly. I think Michigan fans are capable of interacting peaceably with someone who doesn't root for the same team if that person is polite and interesting.
This isn't a post saying "Bosa is better than Gary you losers ha ha ha" or something like that. It's a bit pro-OSU in its orientation ("Bosa is equal with Gary because he is!") but that's not a crime.
I think people can interact with this just fine.
"who doesn't root for the same team if that person is polite and interesting. "
Huge difference between rooting for a different team and rooting for the university incarnation of satan . . .
Man we got posters on here that troll other um posters. I guess if someone says something really out of bounds I could understand, but there are several posters on here who are malicious assclowns all the time. Why does everything have to be an argument when it could just be a discussion. I try to create threads to get everyones opinion and try to create dialogue as I am sure that is what this guy is doing. There truly are some insightful people on here who educate me on a lot of Michigan football topics so yes I value their opinions. I could only imagine what the posters who make there smartass malicious comments on here are like. Hiding behind there keyboards and acting like they are better than everyone else, but never adding to the discussion except to criticize, condecend and antagonize. The shark guy is a osu troller as I have seen him on eleven warriors bragging about it, but I really don't think that was this guys intention.
Is that a fair comparison?
Beating an LT? Now you might have an argument.
Doing that, and also being able to crumple a TE and toss aside a pulling guard like they don't exist? There's a reason why Gary was the unanimous #1.
There's also a reason why OSU fans, "expect there to be a lot of arguments the next two years": I'd do mental gymnastics to escape the pain of Gary playing for the other team as well.
Edit: Spelling
Harbaugh helped deliver a calf recently.
What did Meyer do?
(We know it wasn't scoring on Clemson) ;)
They play different positions. While we are at it why don't we compare JT Barrett to Mike McCray and decide who is a truly better player?
How many Michigan Jersey's have you purchased OP?
Joey Bosa was a beast in college and I think you're right that either fan base would be happy with their guy having similar production to Joey. That said, I think its too early to really know if Gary or Nick Bosa will have the better colllege career.
As I know a lot more about Rashan Gary than I do about Nick Bosa, and the fact that Gary was rated better coming out of high school, I'm going to be a homer and say Gary wil be the better overall college player and eventually go higher in the NFL draft.
I saw this argument coming from a mile away except not on this blog. This is an eleven warriors thing. At this point one would have to ask if you were choosing sides for a football team which one would you choose first. I think the answer is quite obvious. Gary's ceiling is much higher and I think come draft day that will tell all.
I welcome fans from other teams because generally they've been well-behaved and positive contributors to the MGoForum who offer some quality insight and a quick scan of the OP's posting history confirms that pattern.
A belated welcome to the boards, OP, and now that you're at 100 pts and can post stuff I have to downvote you on principle for having horrible taste in football teams :)
Thanks for the welcome!
And OP should have been "their guy," at the end, not "there guy." Embarrassing.
but if history shows us, Gary will be a top player in the nation for the next 2 years and a very high draft pick. Im sure Bosa will be very good as well, but Gary has that rare freaky stuff that puts him over the top of anyone he faces.
Little bit of bias here, but the histroy behind #1 overall recrutis is too strong to ignore.
Nick's numbers were better than Rashon's because UM's first string d-line was better than OSU's. That being said, it's impossiblel to predict, who is the best since we haven't seen enough of the 2 younger guys yet. My hunch is looking at recruiting numbers and sheer explosive ability and intangibles (work ethic, smarts, etc.) that Gary will surpass both the Bosa brothers in production. But, I'd personally be quite happy if Gary's career were as good as Joey's as he had an amazing career (btw that would include knocking OSU's starting QB out of the 2018 game).
Their mother is an OSU grad, and huge fan. Her brother (their uncle) is Eric Kumerow, an OSU star and former first round pick. Their father played at Boston College, and is a former first round pick also. There are no more Bosa boys in the pipeline.
Was BC a factor in either of their recruitments considering their father was a former standout?
I'm sure BC wanted them, but I'm guessing with a reasonable degree of certainty that the interest was not reciprocated by the Bosa boys.
You're a five star athlete with aspirations of competing for national titles and eventually making your way to the NFL. You do not go to a cellar dwellar ACC team that hasn't won anything of note since Doug Flutie was throwing up Hail Marys.
I don't recall BC ever being considered a threat. There was never a serious threat for Nick, as he grew up a huge OSU fan. There were more threats for Joey, who like OSU but was not a huge fan growing up, but I forget who they were now.
Joey was not a five star, at least on the 24/7 composite, which had him as a four star and the No. 37 ranked recruit. (Zeke was the No. 69 player in the same class.)
Nick was a five star and No. 8 overall recruit.
First, I think we should welcome nice and friendly fans from all fanbases.
Second, I like the premise of the question and think that Bosa will get the "bigger" stats (sacks, TFLs, etc.), especially if he continues to play on the outside. IMO, I would rather have Gary over Bosa because filling an interior line is harder than the outside.
Just my $0.02
I'll bet the over on Bosa and Gary against Stae this year, unless Herman Merman has gotten a sixth year....lol
Slow day, that is all.
Common core at work.....