OT - Disturbing racially motivated locker room assault
Saw this on ESPN. Very disturbing story about a Mississippi high school sophomore assaulted in the locker room with a noose put around his neck. I've been on sports team and seen some hazing, but never anything this nasty or racially motivated.
Not to over-generalize a population or demographics, but I always do wonder about African American kids staying in the south / SEC to play football in college. I understand many of these kids are from that region and want to stay close to home and that racism could exist anywhere, but I always find it strange when at Ole Miss or Bama games you see confederate flags and symbolism in the same stadiums where they cheer on their beloved team, usually with 50%+ black players.
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/17879404/mississippi-high-schoo…
Edit: I caught the same story on CNN, so it's more than just a sports story now. I think it's a horrible event obviously, but a good opportunity to have this discussion and educate young people as to why this behavior is disgusting and what it means to have empathy for your fellow man.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/us/mississippi-school-noose-incident-trnd…
October 25th, 2016 at 8:04 AM ^
I suggest that you go to Japan sometime. The highest density of racists I've ever come across - plenty of great folks, but also plenty of racists. Also, trek around Germany and England a bit if you want to see a shit ton of racism.
It's a serious problem in the U.S., but it's not exclusive to us. Not by a long shot.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:27 AM ^
And Korea.
October 25th, 2016 at 1:01 PM ^
Very old and firmly entrenched tribal discrimination. Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Malay, Indian, Pashtun, Georgian, Russian, and Turkic are just the major ones I can cite off the top of my head, but I'm sure their plenty more 'tribes' which exhibit racist behavior with respect to all other tribes. Skin color has become a prominant line of demarkation in the last 75 years or so, but we used to play the same games with Irish and Italians fresh off the boat. and let's not forget the Jews, while we're at it.
There isn't much difference in the statistical distribution of human characteristics between any of these tribes, but they like to see themselves as distinct as a group and, in general, better than the others. It's the ignorant in each tribe which fails to see the inherent falseness of the 'my tribe is better than yours' and actually believes it. *
* - Note: this does not apply to followers of MgoBlog...
October 25th, 2016 at 1:24 PM ^
... because Michigan really *is* better.
;o
xo #Go Blue
October 25th, 2016 at 9:00 AM ^
Have you actually visited many other countries?
Racial tension exists to varying degrees just about everywhere. I would say, if anything, that the United States is more open about its racial problems than other countries that continue to sweep it under the rug. Consider much of Latin America, where people will insist that there are no racial barriers, but strangely enough, those of lighter skin tone are consistently over-represented in the upper strata of society, and those of darker skin over-represented at the bottom.
October 25th, 2016 at 7:14 AM ^
The chances of seeing this kind of thing in Lansing or Schenectady or Iowa City are pretty remote:
In Columbia, South Carolina, it's not very surprising.
These nice neo-Nazis with their Nazi leg tattoos and swastika flags tearing apart the Israeli flag is especially endearing.
October 25th, 2016 at 8:54 AM ^
Hey Don, have you ever been to Columbia? You know those KKK members aren't from Columbia, right? They're from rural SC or even NC. Most of the KKK protestors last year were from North Carolina. Columbia itself is actually a very diverse and eccentric city for the most part, that tends to lean left, as do most college towns. Columbia and Charleston are pretty liberal southern cities, whereas Greenville is very right. Don't sweep Columbia into this.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:47 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 9:56 AM ^
Agreed. South Carolina is becoming more and more progressive, especially in larger cities. The rural south? Not so much but the same can be said for rural cities across the country.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
A bunch of goofs wearing tattoos and protesting whatever they are protesting, or professional soccer players traveling to European countries and being treated like they don't belong, having things thrown at them and needing to take large amounts of security to get anywhere?
Just because we see it at home doesn't mean it's not bad elsewhere. I actually think the states are pretty open and other than a really loud minority do a good job of embracing culture.
October 25th, 2016 at 6:53 AM ^
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October 25th, 2016 at 7:32 AM ^
I was just going to write exactly the same thing, except just swap out "think" with "know".
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October 25th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
No comparison. I've had the opposite experience. Good Ol Boys and racism abound. Heck, one person I know granparents won't let "colored" people in their pool.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:58 AM ^
Aren't most old people that way? Generational thing, man.
Where do you live? That could be a factor.
October 25th, 2016 at 10:15 AM ^
But telling your grandkids their friend can't go swimming because of their color is fucked up on so many levels. It also tells me that younger generations are still trying to deal with what the older generations are telling them vs what others are. I live in Greenville, originally from MI. I travel a lot throughout the SE and see racism both in rural areas and cities. I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe there is a different concentration of racists dependant on location, wealth, or any other social factors.
October 25th, 2016 at 10:28 AM ^
Man, you must have had some bad experiences. Not saying it's not an issue because it is but I have seen awesome things. Blacks and whites hugging each other when the Confederate flag was taken down from the State House. No riots. Hugs. Pretty damn cool.
October 25th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^
Just trying to communicate that it's still prevelant from my POV.
October 25th, 2016 at 8:47 AM ^
I grew up right outside Ann Arbor in Saline and I can definitely confirm that this phenomenon was alive and well even in regions like Washtenaw County where you would expect such attitudes to be at least somewhat muted. Indeed, a couple people I sadly know where brought up on ethnic intimidation charges while I was in high school for an incident involving what was at the time one of maybe two or three non-white students at the school (at the time about 22 or 23 years ago, SHS had about 1,200 students total) - or rather, a series of incidents.
October 25th, 2016 at 7:09 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 8:47 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 9:10 AM ^
I do suspect that a lot of these incidents are just people knowing what sets other people off and pushing those buttons. I mean, if you really, really, really wanted to piss off a black person and hit them where it hurts, let's be frank, everyone knows how to do that. Essentially it's trolling instead of deeply rooted hatred. The problem is that it's also impossible to tell the difference.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:22 AM ^
Because for all practical purposes, there isn't any.
October 25th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^
There isn't any difference in the effect, but there is in the motivation. To see what I mean, take a look at Colin Kaepernick, who had to explain very carefully that he didn't mean any disrespect to veterans by his protest, and even modify it based on that feedback. I think it's disrespectful anyway, which is why I think your point holds true. But I think Kaepernick's reaction to the reaction proves mine.
October 25th, 2016 at 1:31 PM ^
Thanks for sharing.
My gut reaction is to call "willful ignorance", but...
...I think I'll let what you're saying percolate a bit...
October 25th, 2016 at 7:40 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 8:14 AM ^
I want to hang out with you. That seems like a really fun and productive way to spend your time.
Of course, you could also substitute "white executive" with "#blacklives matter supporter" and "political correctness" with "police brutality" and the result would be the same.
October 25th, 2016 at 8:28 AM ^
But I don't spend much time with BLM activists, so I can't speak to that directly.
October 25th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
and disagree. The anger might flow, but likely not the hate.
And while I appreciate the insight, my only pushback to your original comment would be against the word "any".
I *do* know white execs who don't have hate flowing just under the surface (tho I'm sure plenty do), and who seem to genuinely care about racism.
It is useful hearing from the "other side" (things I wouldn't be privy to, for example), I'm just not a fan of totalizing statements & don't think they're helpful.
But yes, I agree "political correctness" is a double-edged sword. Change needs to happen at a deeper level.
October 25th, 2016 at 8:36 AM ^
False equivalencies (and general inaccuracies) for the win.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:21 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 8:25 AM ^
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October 25th, 2016 at 11:40 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 8:38 AM ^
"Any" white executive?
OK then, let's just go ahead and fight broad stereotypes with broad stereotypes, that's a great way to, as they say, have a dialogue.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:27 AM ^
October 25th, 2016 at 2:27 PM ^
It's okay... he said "any" and "white".
If it was any other attribute about someone, THEN it would be racist, streotryping, and some type of dash-phobic
October 25th, 2016 at 8:59 AM ^
Generally this is true of most conservatives and explains why this election will be WAY closer than most people think. Most people who lean that way have basically decided it's not worth it to express their views publicly, because their views are considered not mainstream and/or not PC, and will go along to go along in public or groups where they don't know the philosophic identity of those they are with. It doesn't change what they think; just what they express.
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October 25th, 2016 at 9:16 AM ^
Although I expressed it poorly by saying "any". I didn't mean to imply that most white executives are bigots, only that more of them are than you would think.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^
The racism flows strong.
While unloading my fucking moving van 2 years ago, my new (old white guy) neighbor walks over & says to me "Oh, thank god you're not A Black or A Mexican."
Seriolusly, I lived in this neighborhood for for 12 whole fucking minutes and you think it's ok to say some shit like that?
Regardless of education/political endeavors; lots of old people have to die before we can really turn the corner on racism.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
I grew up there ... Just north of the Howell-Fowlerville border lies Cohoctah. In that community in the 1980s lived the Grand Wizard of the KKK. He held many rallies there during the summer months and it scared the crap out of the rest of us. That was shit we just didn't need.
October 25th, 2016 at 10:10 AM ^
It didn't stop us from moving out this way, but it sure as hell was a big tick in the con column.
I'm almost exactly 1/2way between Howell & Brighton, Brighton schools.
I know raacists come in all sizes, shapes, colors & ages, but over the years (I'm 51) I've learned that more than anything it is a generational issue.
The problem for me is that I'm 51 & white, so all the old racists just assume I'm "one of them", so I get to hear it 24/7.
October 25th, 2016 at 8:21 AM ^
First off, I think the h.s. coach in the linked story did exactly the right thing. Immediately booted the offending player, and reported it to administration. It's the administration's failure to follow up that is astounding. The crime itself is shocking, but the administration's inaction is ... tone deaf and immoral.
On the bigger picture, having lived in the Midwest, the Deep South, and out West, my experience is that the trope of "overt racism in the South, covert racism in the North" is overstated. Of course there are racists in virtually any community with any population. But the shit I've heard and seen in the Deep South is way beyond anything I've seen elsewhere.
It doesn't mean that insiduous covert racism is not a problem. It is, and that's the flavor I've most often encoutered outside of the Deep South (and in the Deep South). However, living in a community where the general mores are that "racism is unacceptable" not only shapes behavior - it impacts peoples' internal belief systems. Some communities in the Deep South provide "safe places" for racist behavior, and it gives rise to racist belief structures.*
To be crystal clear, some of the best people I've met in my life live in the Deep South, and many of them go back generations. And there are vibrant and diverse communities in the South that are too busy (or, in the case of Asheville, too high) to hate. That stated, I think it's really inaccurate to portray (as some on this thread have) the North as "just as bad" about racism as the Deep South. There's way too much evidence to the contrary.
*And sure, there are bastions of racists in each region - but the number in the Deep South eclipses what you see in the North. There's a reason Borat got filmed where it did.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:01 AM ^
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October 25th, 2016 at 10:13 AM ^
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October 25th, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^
Good point.
(for some reason the board's not registering my upvote.)
October 25th, 2016 at 9:13 AM ^
It's not a political topic, but a social one in the sphere of sports and athletics. I like to think we are mature enough to discuss issues other than Higdon's YPC and Wormley's tackles for loss without creating an internet shitstorm of vitriol and ignorance ala RCMB.
Perhaps my expectations are a bit high but I think it's both a relevant and important topic. It's a form of hazing I would not have expected in a locker room regardless of geography.
Team sports generally bring people together in spite of differences which is another reason we often enjoy these sports.
October 25th, 2016 at 2:11 PM ^
controvsial topics like this get deleted, usu. b/c they blow up with inane, acrimonious (sp?) comments. From what I understand, the topics are deleted to "protect" those of us who would have a hard time with the hate.
To be fair, the moderaters usually give it a shot -- every hopeful a decent / civil conversation can actually be had.
Unfortunately, yes, your expectations are a bit high, historically at least, for this board.
I was, in fact, pleasantly surprised to see this posted. Esp. after seeing NO discussion or even *noting* of Jourdan Lewis & Co.'s anti-racism stand at the Penn State game (maybe I missed it). But definitely, we need to air this ish out.
In a reasonable way.
I'm glad to read the possibility the mods are trying a different tack (tact?), allowing the discussion to move forward.
Thanks for starting the thread (blissful newbie!), and mods for your work. Have enjoyed the discussion thus far.
October 25th, 2016 at 9:33 AM ^
and then refreshed the page to see which inane comments were blowing up, and noticed that quite a few of them were removed from the thread. In the past, I think the thread would have been locked down, but I'm gathering that nowadays the mods want to see the comments from the douchebags and morons out there that can bring a sensitive topic such as this one to an ugly place. Good luck with this one, mods; it's probably a lost cause.
October 25th, 2016 at 2:14 PM ^
Maybe the mods want to give the discussion a decent shot at life.
Which is great.
Here's hoping it works.
(Hey mods: maybe some new guidelines -- or a refresher -- so folks don't think they're being censored so much for content?)
Thx all.
October 25th, 2016 at 2:14 PM ^
Maybe the mods want to give the discussion a decent shot at life.
Which is great.
Here's hoping it works.
(Hey mods: maybe some new guidelines -- or a refresher -- so folks don't think they're being censored so much for content?)
Thx all.