UM on Mike & Mike this morning
Gary Anderson was on M&M this morning, and afterwards the talk got around to the Michigan coaching hire.
Greeny brought up the topic of which is the better coaching position--UM or Wiscy. He had some stats comparing the two schools and the number of NFL players in the draft and on the field and it was markedly not in our favor. CC's take was that even the perfect hire wasn't going to turn things around quickly since UM just doesn't have the bodies.
Although I wasn't expecting a fair shake with three OSU, ND, and NW honks in the group, I couldn't argue with their findings completely. That being said, they agreed that UM was still a prestigious program with a ton of cash and the ability to hire top-shelf coaching talent.
EDIT: Let me clarify that I couldn't argue with Greeny's stats about the number of players in the NFL. I certainly don't agree with their overall negative take on UM.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
I'm sorry I brought it up. With all the neg votes you'd think I was on the radio show. I was just interested in getting everyone's feedback.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:37 AM ^
Was the prolific downvoting not feedback?
December 12th, 2014 at 9:46 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:03 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^
If they haven't taken the time to actually look at the Michigan Roster.
It's really not that bad as far as size. The real problem is in player development. Quarterback, it is really difficult to shine as the quarterback when your on the ground for most of the game. The Michian Roster is really not that bad if you look at it.
They are basing everything on 7 years of Michigan Football and during that time we have went to and from a spread offense.
Harbaugh a Coach that can and will develop the talent that we do have on the Roster. I don't see it taking all that long before Michigan Football is relevant again.
December 12th, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^
Don't sweat it. M & M talked about this yesterday, said the exact same thing. I know no one seems to respect these guys, but I think getting the national take is important. Sometimes we have an ivory tower mentality around here, but how we're perceived outside of Ann Arbor can affect how we perform (our recruits, who will coach here, etc...).
December 12th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
On Sirius XM this morning on college sports channel 91, they had callers asking about the team and recruiting.. Not sure who it is they have callers ask questions to, but he said mich doesn't have any talent at the QB position and they will be horrible until they get a good QB recruit..
Don't agree at all, all we really need is a coach that can actually you know coach players instead of just sending them out there to get slaughtered.. And have a competent OLINE coach.. Next year with a solid coaching staff the oline should be really really good and the QB play should improve just on the time they will get to stand in the pocket alone
December 12th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
So Mike and Mike are telling the Recruits that if you want to play some Football go to the U o M they are in need of:
Quarterbacks: Play now instead of 3 years from now.
Cornerbacks: Play now.
Wide Receivers: Play Now
The Coach is on his way. HARBAUGH doesn't get much better than that. Ask the NFL guys.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
Eh, the number of wins and NFL draft picks in the last however many years are not the only indicators that make up how good a job is. Rodriguez said it best, that the Block M will get you into any living room in America. These guys are clearly trolls, which is apparently the industry norm for talk radio these days.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
I think I heard this same type of dialogue on Tiki-Tierney (CBS) the other day. Their main point was that we haven't won a BIG10 title in a decade, while Wisconsin has won 2 outright, and shared another...and that's what the kids see and care about.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
Typical national level, broad sweeping assemsment of things.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
First time giving a neg.
Citing to Mike & Mike and using their nicknames must be dealt with - harshly.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
I have no idea where this idea got started. I don't get the logic that somehow good coaches leaving Madison is some sign of the apocalypse for the B1G.
Check the record - They have had a couple of two- or three-year really good stretches over the past 30 years, where they have had 1 or 2 losses and finished in the top 10. They generally finish ranked 15-ish most years, with lots of "receiving votes" rankings sprinkled in throughout. They have really good OL and RBs year in and year out (yipee)
Barry Alvarez has somehow been elevated into some college football god status despite a LOT of mediocre seasons when he was at the reigns. Yes, he brought them up from years of northwestern/purdue status up a couple notches, but they are no more elite than Georgia or Kansas State or Tennessee - they've had some really good teams in small bursts, but historically not in the top ten nationally. I wasn't shocked when Bielema or Anderson left, and I won't be shocked when the next guy leaves to go to North Carolina or Boston College.
December 12th, 2014 at 10:06 AM ^
Without knowing the inner workings of the Wisky AD and football program I think the thing that shocked most people is where Bielema and Anderson ended up. Arkansas, while in a better conference, was looked at as a lateral move. I think most people look at Wisky to Oregon St as a step down. It'd be different if these guys left for what most consider a more 'blue blood' program.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:49 AM ^
Also the last Michigan Big 10 championship was 10 years ago so that works well.
As far as a down decade, Alabama won the NC in 1992 and the SEC in 1999 and then went through 5 coaches in 8 years. They didn't get another conference championship until 2009. Look at them now. Just a good coach and school support can make everyone forget this short downturn.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:21 AM ^
Anyone who spends any time on this board (guilty) and reads the various content provided is exponentially more informed on the situation in Ann Arbor than ANY of the national media talking heads. They are simply people providing content for people across the country on the depth of a USA Today article so anybody expecting anything deeper or more insightful is kidding themselves.
I listen to shows like M & M (and mostly MadDog Radio) on XM simply to get a feel for what the rest of the countly is being told. For example, if you listened to the national media you'd think that the Browns are making a very risky move pulling Hoyer and putting in Manziel because we still have the playoffs in sight and "Hoyer got us here". When in reality the team got to 7-6 in SPITE of Hoyer witheringly display of quarterbacking incompetence and the move to Manziel if more a move away from Hoyer than anything else. But those people who've never actually watched a game make comments that make zero sense to those people who see what's happening and understand.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:38 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:21 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:26 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
Wisconsin is supposedly better, yet they've had two coaches abandon the program in the last three years.
Aside from some very early coaches (Frank Crawford and Langdon Lea), the only coach that voluntarily left Michigan to coach elsewhere was George Little, who left to be Wisconsin's coach and AD.
December 12th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:31 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:31 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:33 AM ^
I listened to the segment this morning, and I thought it was very concerning not because of the comments of Mike & Mike, but because of what Chris Carter had to say - now, I'm aware of his OSU background of course, but he essentially said that he coaches at St. Thomas Aquinas High in Florida and was comparing their views regarding sending their kids to Wisconsin vs. sending them to Michigan.
[here's a link to an article on the schools football products - a factory]
Basically, he said they think Wiscy is a great program and they like to send kids there because of the academics and how they get them ready for the NFL, but that Michigan while great academically hasn't been doing a good job essentially (though he didn't say it directly) in the S&C program - thus he was shocked at how "tiny" the team as a whole looked in comparison to OSU when he was on the field at the game.
I think given his position as a coach there this is definitely thread worthy and that downvoting for something you don't agree with or like is silly. Not good that a HS program like that has a dim view of Michigan at the moment.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:40 AM ^
I wish I had stated is as well as you did. Nice summation of what was said by Carter.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:49 AM ^
That was the part that concerned me as well. It goes back to how it seemed like the O-line just could not get a push last year. Still I wonder how much of this is "confirmation bias" from a prominent OSU player who would rather see his players go ANYWHERE but Michigan. When I was at Air Force, I was used to seeing a size disparity between my team and the other one and the contrast was especially pronounced against Notre Dame, but I have a hard time believing there was that great of a difference between two well known power five schools that have recruited similar types of players.
December 12th, 2014 at 10:05 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
with what Carter is saying about UM's S&C program. There's been plenty of complaints/questions about how good UM's S&C program is. When I watch other teams play, at least to my eyes it looks like their players are generally bigger and more ripped then the players UM has on the field, especially when it comes to the dline and LB's.
December 12th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^
This is mostly CC saying what he wants to be true and piling on in general. We're still young on the O-Line, including a true freshman left tackle. By next year Michigan will have a more mature roster, including the addition of Peppers and a few others, and will look considerably bigger.
December 12th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
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December 12th, 2014 at 9:43 AM ^
You guys don't realize how good you have it. I got XM so I could listen to national radio types instead of crap like Finebaum......who then, of course, went national.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:46 AM ^
to hear fans talk about how long it is going to take a program to get turned around. I would like to hear what CC was saying about Bama when they stunk before Saban arrived or Auburn before Mahlzan arrived. Michigan has just as much prestige as Bama and Auburn isn't even in the same category. IMO, this team has lacked leadership for the past 4 years which starts at the top. This program needs a leader that is going to not only instill "toughness" but also confidence that this is still and will continue to be an elite program. I am not naive to think we haven't taken a blow the past 8-10 years, but all it takes is one leader and a bunch of special student athletes to turn this around. I believe we have the athletes, no we need to find the leader.
GO BLUE!!
December 12th, 2014 at 9:55 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 11:19 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^
Michigan was not good in 2014. So the talking heads in the media just assume that Michigan will be bad in 2015 and beyond. And they then proceed to have a "debate" about whether Michigan or Wisconsin is the better program.
This is straight out recency bias. Same thing happens with lazy and uninformed talking heads opining on the economy or the stock market.
In 2014 the two deep was really young, the coaching was sub-standard, the QB play was really bad.
I know, you have heard all of that before. But here is the thing...
All three of these will change for the better in 2015 and beyond.
Nonetheless, the talking heads just predict the future by drawing a straight trend line from 2014. That is lazy and uninformed.
The light at the end of the tunnel is a lot closer than bloviators on ESPN think.
Is Michigan close to being a 2015 playoff team? No. There will be no Malzahn at Auburn type turn around in 2015. But Michigan is a lot closer to being a 9 to 10 win team in 2015 that most believe.
Does not mean it will happen. But three huge factors that lead to the poor 2014 result--coaching, youth, and QB position--are all going to be much better in 2015. So don't be overly surprised if it does happen.
It is also very possibe that the D will be better (from solid/good to great), given how Peppers can be a shut down corner, which completely changes and improves the rest of the D.
And let me preemt those who will say that 2015 looks bad too because Shane Morris is terrrible.
In order for Michigan to be a much better team in 2015, Morris does not have to be the next Tom Brady. He just needs to be average. I can certainly see Morris being an average QB in 2015, and certainly much better than the 2014 performance from Devin Gardner.
Better coaching only needs to get Morris to the decent level where the QB position is not a turn over machine, does not hold the ball too long when the pocket collapses, and does not constantly fail to see a wide open Jake Butt (or whichever 2nd or 3rd receiver option) waiving has hands past the first down marker.
(BTW, I am a big Devin Gardner fan. He is a fighter and a very talented athlete. But for a lot of reasons--coaching, wrong system for his talents, injuries, three systems in 4 years, no one emerged to replace Gallon, o-line improving but still a work in progress, etc.-- he was not good at all in 2014. Regardless, for a million reasons I am still a huge DG fan.).
December 12th, 2014 at 9:52 AM ^
Carter wasn't saying it couldn't be turned around, but he was saying that:
1. 15-19 kids don't care about the "tradition" of schools for the most part
2. Even the right coach would need a few years to turn things around completely because in the St. Thomas Aquinas's staff view at least we don't have a team of NFL sized type people (obviously there are exceptions like Funchess, etc.) on the whole, while the OSU/Wiscy/Florida/USC types do already.
You can choose to dismiss these views if you wish. I find them a bit disconcerting.
December 12th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:05 AM ^
What's Tracy Williams up do these days?
December 12th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:54 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 11:09 AM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^
Mike and Mike. Reason #267 why I've given up on ESPN. They can't name more than two or three players on the entire roster.