New Hoke comments, Q&A (Monday AM) on mgoblue.com
The regularly scheduled weekly interview with Hoke on the Mich football website was just released a few minutes ago and has new comments on the incident. Among other things, he comments that the medical staff said "Yeah, he can go" and that he was medically cleared to go on that play. Relevant section is below:
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Q. What is your quarterback situation moving forward, with Saturday starter Shane Morris and Devin Gardner, who started the first four games?
A. Well, number one, we would never put a quarterback who was hurt (in there). That would never happen. As far as where we're at with it, we usually don't talk about injuries and stay away from them. But this has kind of become an issue to some degree, and Shane Morris has got a leg injury, and that's why we pulled him from the game. We'll see where he's at.
On the down where Devin's helmet came off, there was a discussion about the timeout with the referee that I wanted to take to buy him back into the game. When I talked to the referee -- because he kind of came to the sideline -- and he said, 'No.' So, a couple seconds later the line judge comes up and says, 'Now, you can buy a timeout.' But by that time, Shane was already back in the football game.
(Shane) was on the bench and (senior football athletic trainer) Paul Schmidt was looking at his leg, and (reserve quarterback) Russell (Bellomy) was there. Russell is signaling in, him and the other quarterbacks. And when Shane heard his name, the medical staff said, 'Yeah, he can go.' And he went out on the field. We'd never put a kid out there who wasn't capable. He was medically cleared to go in on that play.
http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092914aaa.html
September 29th, 2014 at 9:00 AM ^
But you also don't put your foot in your mouth, either.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:46 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:50 AM ^
I got of of work at 6:00am and can't stop looking............
September 29th, 2014 at 8:52 AM ^
There is no way that the trainer would have been able to diagnose whether or not Morris had a concussion in that amount of time. This is simply a cover up for Hoke's ass.
All of you on here saying "Well, was there ANY EVIDENCE he HAD a concussion?" are swine.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:52 AM ^
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September 29th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 8:54 AM ^
And we have lots of reasons to be. But at the end of the day this is football, this is still a violent sport where people get hit, shooken up, hurt, etc. People want Hoke to pull Morris because there was a possibility of a head injury, but that possibility exists on almost every tackle of every game. Lots of players take shots to the head, it happens whether we like to admit that or not.
Shane is the QB and so all eyes are on him, and he took what was a clear roughing the passer penalty. But he had played through a minor sprain since I believe early in the third quarter (he was wrapped up by the leg while throwing the football, he hurt it worse later on the drive in question). Players play through pain. The coaches likely saw a guy playing through pain, but from their vantage point, likely didn't see justification for immediately jumping to concussion based on what they'd seen.
Now, you can believe Hoke is incompetent to the point he puts his players in positions to suffer further injury. You can believe the same about Nuss. You can believe the same about the athletic trainers who are certified to make independent evaluations of players and if they are medically cleared to play. You can believe a guy that has been one of the top ones in his profession would risk a 20 year career by clearing a kid to go back in the game Michigan had very little chance of winning. You can believe all those people made all those mistakes and it's just gross negligance on everyone's part.
Or you can believe that maybe Morris didn't suffer a concussion and that these guys are actually telling the truth about what did happen.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:55 AM ^
Leaving Morris in the game for the next play is what gets my goat. Fine, re-inserting him later might have not been terrible.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:08 AM ^
Part of the problem I'm having with this whole thing isn't directly because of the concussion thing. Hoke will be gone by season's end, I don't think there is any question of that nor should there be really.
What has bothered me during Hoke's tenure and especially this year are the small details that don't seem to be handled. Why is Gardner not immediately ready to take the field and force Morris to come off the field if Hoke can't "buy a TO", why does it have to take a play? Why is Bellomy not ready with his helmet once Morris goes down? Someone is in charge of this, a grad assistant probably (Nuss is busy calling plays, he can't chase people down during this time), or maybe another position coach, but someone is in charge of this. But 10 guys on punt coverage, no one getting the next guy on the depth chart ready, these small details that are not being taken care of are annoying and at the end of the day keep coming up.
Those are things that get people fired, and justifiably so. Those things and the lack of success on the field and the lack of consistent execution of techniques and assignments are more than enough to see this staff move on after this season.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
I think the Morris incident was a mistake and no one with reason judgement thinks Hoke would jeopardize the health of his players to save his skin.
There are two issues with Hoke that has caused his downfall.
1) Stubbornness - He is slow to correct mistakes. Anyone could see that Morris wasn't improving the offense by the end of the first half. Why not put back your fifth year experienced starter to see if he can do anything? I understand why Hoke started Shane Morris, I don't get why he didn't pull him when it was evident that improvement wasn't taking place. Hoke's stubbornness has also showed on areas such as punting and tempo.
2) Loyalty - Usually this is a wonderful trait to have but not so much in college football. Doesn't matter if a coach has been your friend or went to different locations, you need to find the best candidates to coach this team. Borges shouldn't have come from SDSU. Doug Nussmeier was worth taking a chance on but why not let him bring his own staff to run the offense? Darrell Funk should have already been fired and keeping him around has cost Michigan. Funk is still coaching because of the loyalty of Hoke. On the flip side, Nussmeier was allowed to walk by Nick Saban. Saban clearly knows how to win at football.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:18 AM ^
you're not allowed to question this staff and it's choices. After all you told me countless times this offseason that "Doom and Gloom" attitude was not appreciated and not realistic. You cannot switch sides now.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:58 AM ^
Man, I wish you'd just stick to the X's and O's.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^
Or you can believe that maybe Morris didn't suffer a concussion and that these guys are actually telling the truth about what did happen.
That is completely irrelevant.
An already injured player takes a nasty helmet to helmet collision.
That player nearly collapses and clings to one of his lineman to stay upright on his way back to the huddle.
Multiple players signal to sideline that the player is needing attention.
Player gives an extremely unconvincing, drunken, "no I'm ok" wave.
Not only do they leave him in the game, but they CALL A FRICKING PASS PLAY
Then they pull him, even though he had not taken a hit on that play.
Then he is reinserted into the game after a duration short enough that it seems impossible that a proper concussion check was performed.
Plus, Bellomy found his helmet before the playclock even started, giving the chance to sub him instead.
Plus, the officials specifically asked Hoke if he wanted a timeout, and he declined - only to punt on fourth down a few plays later because he obviously didn't feel that enthused about the chances of winning the game.
So to finish, a question: if the head to head collision, wasn't a thing, why did they bring him out after that? They didn't bring him out after any hit to his leg, so why did they bring him out if that is the only potential injury to address?
September 29th, 2014 at 9:26 AM ^
Once they realized he was hurt, Hoke wanted to "buy a TO". He couldn't because Morris didn't go down (I'm not blaming Morris for this, he is a competitor, I'm just stating what happened), so they ran one more play, confirmed that the leg injury was to the point that he shouldn't continue playing, and pulled him. Maybe after one more play they had more information to go off of (how was he moving, how was he planting on his foot on that play, they had a better vantage point).
I don't see how him being pulled after one more play comfirms or disaffirms a head injury vs a leg injury.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:39 AM ^
I don't see how him being pulled after one more play comfirms or disaffirms a head injury vs a leg injury.
That isn't what I meant to imply.
I believe the nature of the hit and his behavior on the field suggested a head injury. He seemed to be obviously in worse shape after the hit than before, and there wasn't contact to his ankle on the hit. Do you actually believe that Morris shouldn't have undergone some sort of evaluation following the hit and subsequent collapse against Braden?
If they actually left him in to throw a pass against live competition in order to confirm he wasn't able to continue, its even worse.
And nobody is talking about Hoke's ludicrous (paraphrasing) "Morris could have taken himself out" response after the game.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:24 AM ^
This board has absolutely lost its mind on this issue.
Hoke is not an evil, fat, necromancer. He should be fired for being clueless and having a terribly coached team, but he did not intentionally keep a concussed player on the field. The idea of this is ridiculous, but 90% of this board has bought into it.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:52 AM ^
... they're saying he was negligent in not even having it confirmed one way or another.
They're saying that it's unacceptable that he still won't address the question -- instead talking about the ankle injury.
They're saying he has his head in the sand on this and much else.
They're saying he's not tuned into what's happening with his team.
They're saying this is dangerous -- all season for the success of the team, and now for the health of a player.
You're right that "the idea of this is ridiculous", but it's not the idea that nearly anyone on this board is talking about, excepting your straw man.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:41 AM ^
"Or you can believe that maybe Morris didn't suffer a concussion and that these guys are actually telling the truth about what did happen."
Stop right there. I can't believe that anybody is telling the truth that Shane Morris didn't suffer a concussion because they still haven't said whether he did or did not suffer a concussion, or whether (or when) he was evaluated for a concussion. So what "truth" am I being asked to believe here?
Look, we all know concussions are a major problem at all levels of football, and the higher the level, the bigger the problem. The NCAA just agreed to pay $75 million as a result of a concussion lawsuit:
As a result of that lawsuit, the NCAA required its schools to tighten up their concussion protocols.
This is turning into an enormous political disaster for the University, and the athletic department has already issued two separate press releases attempting to address the problem but not even using the words "concussion" or "head injury." Even if they won't answer whether or not he had a concussion, I think it's entirely fair to ask whether or not Shane Morris was evaluated for a concussion and if so, when it was done and if not, why was it not determined to be necessary after the impact his head received?
September 29th, 2014 at 9:52 AM ^
It's the old adage PR people think that by addressing the issue you're only bringing credibility to the issue. In this case, it's an obvious blunder.
What they are asking you to believe is that Shane had an ankle injury. That's all they're saying. You can buy the story that they are selling about the ankle injury and the evaluation process and all that. Or you don't have to.
I agree that the questions you have are valid questions. I think the PR move that Michigan has used here has completely backfired on them, as many of their PR moves have under Brandon. It just seems weird to me, that in the absence of firm evidence, so many people (and not just Michigan fans, but now national news) are willing to jump straight to the conclusion they have without so much of a caveat as "these people may have a better view of everything that happened and maybe not everyone on that sideline is in the wrong". Maybe Hoke and Co and the medical staff are wrong. We don't know. What I do believe is that this is a witch hunt where everyone is guity until proven innocent (which is SOP in today's media world).
September 29th, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
Of course Shane Morris had an ankle injury; I don't think anybody in the world could possibly dispute the fact that he had an ankle injury. If he wants to play on the ankle injury and the coaches want to let him, fine.
But ankle injury rules are not the same as concussion rules. The NCAA doesn't mandate an ankle injury protocol. This is the biggest issue surrounding football today--the head injury issue--and people are asking about it. I couldn't agree more that these PR attempts are backfiring badly.
What I disagree about is that I am engaging in anything like a "witch hunt." Witch hunts are immoral because there is no such thing as a witch. Witch hunts are immoral because you can't prove you are not a witch.
What I'm talking about--the head injury--is enough of a problem in football that the NCAA just paid out $75 million to settle a lawsuit. You can't deny that concussed people have been put out on the field for decades without any concern at all. So this, unlike witches, is a real problem. And all Michigan has to do is to tell us whether Shane Morris was evaluated for a concussion, when it was done (or why it wasn't done). The answer might be reasonable. A plausible answer is all they need to give to prove to most people that the right thing was done.
But instead of plausible answers, as you point out, the fact that they are ignoring this issue means that they look more and more guilty with each press release they send out.
September 29th, 2014 at 8:57 AM ^
This is spiraling out of control quickly. There isn't a single thing this team does well right now and I just don't see how anyone can watch this crap and think we're headed in the right direction. To sit there and say "we would never put a quaterback who was hurt" in the game and watch what happened on Saturday...you now have to question Brady's credibility.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:20 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 10:00 AM ^
This is football, people get hurt, they play hurt frequently. Pretty much every player out there is hurt.
Let's ask Leidner and Maxx how they feel about their staff letting them "play hurt" against Michigan. Let's not act like Michigan's staff allowing players to play while banged up is outside the norm for football for any staff. Or do people gloss over the part in "Three and Out" where Denard had to go in for treatment every morning because he was so bea tup.
If you want to vilify this staff for playing guys that are banged up, vilify all of the coaching staffs. In fact, vilify the whole sport, because that's what it amounts to.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:07 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:00 AM ^
they need to come out and say whether or not shane had a concussion. he may not have. we don't know.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:01 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:12 AM ^
Calling for Shane to start. Clearly a mistake.
Could it be that Michgan fans are wrong about this.
Nah.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
September 29th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
One of two things has to be true: either 1) the coaches and administration are lying and knew he should be administered a concussion test and failed to do so or 2) the medical staff, after seeing a player take what appeared to be a helmet to helmet hit, stagger to his feet, fall into his offensive lineman's arms, and blink at the sideline like a deer in the headlights, declined to administer the concussion test for some unknown reason. Now, the AD desperately wants us to believe 2. If we're to believe 2, why aren't heads rolling on the medical staff? Somebody has to take responsibility here
September 29th, 2014 at 9:16 AM ^
Was it reasonable to evaluate Morris for a concussion before sending him back into the game? Whether he has/had one, wanted to stay in, almost fell because of his ankle-none of those matter. Based on the sequence of events, I think everyone would agree that it's POSSIBLE he sustained a concussion.
I'm only a lowly high school tennis coach, but even I have enough training to know that the golden rule is if you have any doubt about whether an athlete has a concussion, you remove him from competition until he's medically cleared to play. If I know that, coaching a sport where I could go a lifetime without seeing a concussion, Brady Hoke HAS to know that. Every coach on his staff, grad assistant, trainer, and support staff on the sidelines also HAS to know that.
Why is it so hard for them to admit they screwed this one up? I could live with that-not be happy about it, but live with it. This just makes them look either stupid, incompetent, uncaring-or some combination of all three.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 9:19 AM ^
/s
September 29th, 2014 at 9:23 AM ^
it's so pathetic. when brandon finally caves to national pressure and fires hoke he's also going to have to explain why he didn't do it righta way and instead waited for so much pressure to mount that he had no choice.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^
Ish, This is Brandon's 'get out of jail free' card. Or so he thinks, and unfortunatly he may be right. He can now fire his friend and still: 1) maintain the friendship because he had to due to mounting public pressure 2) "untie" himself so to speak from this horrible hire and save face. 3) give the appearance of being a just and honorable person as he presents himself to be.
He just has to decide the perfect time to play it.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:32 AM ^
Here's the thing:
Morris didn't wobble/collapse after the dude rolled up on his ankle. He wasn't taken out after the dude rolled up on his ankle. He played a couple more plays after that.
He wobbled after he took that head-to-head shot. When he was taken out, that hit was the last he took.
Everything that we saw pointed to him being taken out because the headshot made his condition significantly worse.
Yet they are acting like that hit never happened.
September 29th, 2014 at 9:43 AM ^
Removing Hoke is the best option to prevent that as it should lead the media to move on.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
There's obviously a major disconnect between the average fan and the guys who have been on the sideline during a game. Magnus, Coyote, me, and a few others dont see a lot wrong with the way this was handled. I'm not saying this makes us right, perhaps our biases are blinding us. But I don't think that anyone involved with football team is likely to make a huge deal of this.
When I played, no one would have thought anything of this.
When I played, they were wrong.
I think your last sentence is the biggest problem - there are still way too many involved in football who don't see this as a huge deal, and they're massively and egregiously wrong.
September 29th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 3:11 PM ^
But for the sake of argument, suppose that Morris wasn't concussed
I have no problem with that possibility.
did not display any sign of a concussion
Except he DID display signs of a concussion. There is no question (whether concussed or not) that he showed the symptoms of a possible concussion.
Some concussion symptoms -
- Changes in physical coordination, such as stumbling or clumsiness
- Confusion or disorientation
- Not thinking clearly
- Feeling slowed down
- Not being able to concentrate
- Sensitivity to light or noise
- Balance problems
- Difficulty concentrating or feeling “foggy”
Paul Schmidt goes over to him, asks him a few questions and Morris answers them and looks absolutely fine in doing so (he wasn't concussed in this scenario).
1) He played another play before ever potentially being seen by a trainer.
2) There wasn't enough time between coming out and going back in for Gardner for an acceptable concussion evalutation to have taken place. Most protocols take at least 8-10 minutes or more.
3) Repeated evidence has shown that players CANNOT be trusted to self-report or be honest about concussion symptoms.
What's the big deal? He took a nasty hit and looked to TV viewers like he might have had a concussion? Is that it?
He took a nasty hit and looked like he might have had a concussion. At that point the only acceptable answer is immediately pull him from the field and don't return until a full concussion evaluation was done.
Is that it? Yeah - that IS it, and that is a huge deal. Concussions/TBI are a huge issue, we know athletes cannot be trusted to self report, and they failed to follow an appropriate concussion protocol.
Look, I've had concussions, and none of them were diagnosed. I tried to hide them. I was wrong. I could have died! I'm not stuck in the glory days. I'm just saying that I can see a way in which this is not a big deal at all, and my experience leads me to believe this is one of those cases.
If a player with a potential concussion who shows any concussion symptoms after a possible blow to the head and isn't removed from the field and tested for a concussion - it's a big deal. Always. Every time.
The NCAA settled a $75 million dollar lawsuit and put concussion protocols in place. Michigan did not follow them.
September 29th, 2014 at 5:11 PM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
All these post saying he had a concussion is just speculation and overreaction by a bunch of people who have NO business saying the kid had a concussion. It’s all over emotional nonsense and frankly it's like reading something from Faux News. Stating opinions from nonqualified people as fact. His left leg was messed up and should have come out when he first started to limp. What we have here is a bunch of "Fan"atics who know for themselves and that’s all they need is their "expert" opinion on the matter regardless of their qualifications
September 29th, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^
Jeezus, is this simply on an auto-loop? Hoke is apparently incapable of nuance or distinguishing between apples and oranges--or he is the ultimate employee who simply repeats the marching orders of his boss.
September 29th, 2014 at 10:44 AM ^
The only thing we should really care about is the fact that when asked after the game what was going on, Hoke had no clue. I don't think it was coachspeak, or CYA, or Fort Schembechler, I think he literally didn't have any idea what was going on. This guy is the Head Coach, and he didn't know if his starting QB had a concussion. Cumong man. This proves that he is utterly incapable of running any football program. Fire him and move on. This year's recruiting class is small anyway, and we will probably only lose out on Clark. That would suck but I'd rather lose him than keep this befuddled doofus.
September 29th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
September 29th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^
The difference might be the person you're interpreting as the "ref." I believe Hoke said that the actual Referee wouldn't allow Michigan to get an injury timeout. He then said the Line Judge offered him an injury timeout.
Of course, there's always the chance to use a team timeout, but obviously Hoke didn't want to burn one at that point.