Our recruiting in Ohio
I don’t want this to sound like a hot take, but Harbaugh has not really emphasized recruiting in Ohio, where Hoke made it a priority. I grew up watching our teams from the 90s that always had a strong influence of Ohio players. Obviously are two recent Heisman winners were both from Ohio.
Hokes first full class in 2012 had 5 of the top 15 from Ohio and the 2013 class had 6 of the top 15. A lot of those players made up the core of the 2016 team that should have beat OSU.
Under Harbaugh we had no Ohio players in 2016, 2 players in 2017 (#9 and #17), none in 2018, 6 in 2019 (but only 3 of the top 20, and none so far this year.
Im certainly not saying that’s the only factor and it’s harder getting top Ohio players to commit now with the current circumstances, but I think we need to work hard to start pulling in more of these players that really understand the rivalry.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
But are kids who have no chance of going to OSU really going to be swayed in their D2 or D3 choices by something a program they have no chance at going to says?
I understand that getting your coaching staff blacklisted from working OSU camps would suck. But Cincy, Akron, Toledo, BGSU, Kent St, Miami, and Ohio all have camps too.
December 4th, 2019 at 4:29 PM ^
I have to think that for schools of that size, that would be the equivalent of some form of excommunication because they'd lose the exposure. I also have to think there are schools of sufficient size and reputation in Ohio that might dare OSU to try it.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:28 PM ^
I agree. It's always going to be easier (on average) to get kids to come to Michigan (or any school) the closer they are geographically. Parents, family, and friends want to come to the games when possible and that's easier when it's closer. So, it seems that for players of equal talent, it's going to be easier to get a guy from northern Ohio vs. say, Texas. So, I've found it very strange that the coaches haven't made more of an effort to get Ohio players. It's almost like they're purposely avoiding going down there.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:29 PM ^
Al Washington and Greg Mattison were making inroads in Ohio. Then OSU hired them.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^
Isn't it weird how you can trace most of Ohio's recruiting and staffing moves back to how it affects Michigan? Maybe we ought to be taking steps that negatively impact them for a change. I'd start by doing whatever it takes to lure Larry Johnson away. DC position, massive salary, 3 houses, get him off that staff and into Maize & Blue. He was a longtime Penn State man so don't tell me he's too attached to that school to leave.
Just a thought.
December 4th, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
Its an excellent thought and you definitely hit on one the major differences between them and us.
They view EVERY decision through the filter of "will this help us beat Michigan" while we simply look at things based on "is this good for Michigan". Its a big difference.
A huge part of the decision to go after Washington and Mattision was to hurt us as much as it was to help them. We dont think that way and it shows.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:37 PM ^
We dont think that way and it shows.
And the sad thing is, the most memorable era of the rivalry, The Ten Year War, was started when a coach from Ohio left Woody and took over the Wolverines. Instantly upsets them and becomes a legend here. We are eternally intertwined with that school and our best path to success is by directly attacking and stealing from them, not avoiding them as some are arguing for now.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:07 PM ^
Larry Johnson left PSU when they hired James Franklin as HC which he thought should probably have been his. Not going to pull Johnson away from OSU now as he's in his upper 60s and probably only has 2 or 3 more years left and many OSU people think his DLs in the next couple of years will be his most talented and deepest - by far
His returning DTs include Taron Vincent, Haskell Garrett, Jerron Cage, Tommy Togiai, Antwuan Jackson, and Jaden McKenzie. All were 4 & 5 star recruits except 3-star McKenzie. He's bringing in 4 stars Jacobe Cowan and Darrion Henry in the 2020 class. I look for one or two of these guys to enter the transfer portal due to lack of playing time. They're super stacked at the DT position
And his returning DEs are Jon Cooper, Zach Harrison (ugh, we were so close), Tyreke Smith, Tyler Friday, Jean-Baptiste, and Noah Potter. All of them were 4 & 5 star recruits.
No way Johnson leaves this to another coach. Plus he's seems really happy at OSU as his 2019 salary is $900,000 which is off the charts for a position coach
December 4th, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^
Mattison is old as shit too and they hired him
December 4th, 2019 at 8:52 PM ^
Obviously, Mattison wanted to coach awhile longer. My point is that Johnson might not want to leave OSU for some other program nearing 70 years old - especially with the DL he has in place now at OSU.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
Getting players from Ohio is important because of the amount of shit they have to endure for coming to Michigan. Those guys are highly motivated to beat OSU.
We should be spending significant resources to get at least one top player out of that shithole each year, just as a favor to humanity.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:33 PM ^
yes please do this
December 4th, 2019 at 12:34 PM ^
The only thing Harbaugh really needs to do better when it comes to recruiting is to get more defensive backs and wide receivers that can run a 4.4 40 or less. This year was a weird anomaly when it comes to DT but that appears to be corrected.
Ohio kids that run a sub-4.4 40 are probably OSU locks. They will be leaned on from all directions to go to OSU. The Ohio 5-stars won’t look at Michigan until we get a win. That’s one thing Hoke was able to (briefly) sell. Just look what happened with the Harrison recruitment. We can’t waste resources like that.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:51 PM ^
How has the DT recruiting been corrected? We have 0 inline for the 2020 class, and two from the 2019 glass that didn't do much of anything....
December 4th, 2019 at 1:52 PM ^
the 2019 glass that didn't do much of anything....
I hate pieces of shit like you. Here's how it goes with your type:
*Freshman DT's play and play well* "God Michigan sucks! They had to rely on freshmen!"
*Freshman DT's play and don't do well* "God Michigan sucks! The freshman DT's played like garbage! They're obviously busts and Michigan can't recruit!"
*Freshman DT's don't play much* "God Michigan sucks! Their freshman DT's weren't even good enough to see the field! Bunch of busts!"
You're everything wrong with our fanbase.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^
We have three "SDEs" committed. One of those will be a DT after spending some time in the weight room. I'd be surprised if one of the two freshman failed to break out next year. Plus the guys we have will hopefully be better next year (Dwumfor, Jeter).
December 5th, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
Thats the thing I don't like... its a cop out when they have take a Mason Cole and start him at LT instead of inside where he belongs... and Carlo Kemp a OLB and "bulk him up" and play DT.... it is typical of a low wattage program, and yet we seem to have major holes and need to do this, like having Mason but on 30 lbs and play DT... cmon..... how about getting a few proper sized and proper framed players at each position, each year. Anything short of that is major neglect, especially when we have a paid staffer who just strategizes personnel.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
Also, we're going to have to beat them a time or two before we start to be seriously considered by Ohio players again.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
This is nonsense. Get top talent wherever it lives. "Understanding the rivalry" can be taught. Most all of OSU's impact players are from different regions.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:36 PM ^
I agree with this. If we want to beat OSU we need players on their level regardless of where they come from.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:40 PM ^
It doesn’t matter where the players come from as long as they are good players and not bad players.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
Get tough hard nosed football players from Ohio. Get your speed where you can.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
An under appreciated aspect to Michigan ignoring Ohio is it allows OSU to spend more time on out of state recruits. Right now OSU coaches know that they can cherry pick the best prospects from Ohio with little effort and then spend extra time with out of state players. If Michigan was more involved in Ohio then OSU would have less time to build relationships out of state. So I say continue ignoring Ohio.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:02 PM ^
BINGO. I've been harping on this for awhile. Harbaugh's Ohio recruiting has been nonexistent and it shows. They will never beat OSU for the top guys, but there is more than enough talent there to help us out.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^
People keep saying Michigan doesn't recruit Ohio but last year they took 6 kids from there and of the top 5 kids in the state Michigan got 1, OSU got 2, and ND and UVa took the other 2. And Zach Harrison, the only 5* of the lot, came down to UM and OSU. In 2020 OSU has the #7 kid in the country but then the 2nd-best recruit from the state is #168. The 4th-best is going to ASU and is outside the top-250. Like, I think Michigan needs to be in play for Ohio recruits up and down the list, but OSU isn't taking a ton of these guys either. It's mostly UK and UC grabbing them, and I can see Michigan finding comparable players from other states.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:12 PM ^
OSU has two players from the state of Michigan:
OL Josh Alabi and a walk-on long snapper.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:13 PM ^
The very fabric of their focus and intensity on the rivalry.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
They had more though, Michael Jordan from Canton, Mike Weber, I'm sure I'm missing some.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:12 PM ^
How'd that work out for Hoke?
December 4th, 2019 at 1:40 PM ^
Well...not too terrible in terms of the OSU game.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
Really? The only OSU team Hoke ever beat was with Carr and RR's guys, against OSU's transition year team that went 6-6, and we really tried to blow that one too. The rest, all Ls against worse OSU teams than Harbaugh has had to face.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:17 AM ^
Hoke may have made it, had he got new staffers and not brought with him that OL coach Funk among a few others.... had he had top OL coach and maybe a local-ish OC, he just may have done well.... the defensive side was adequate and the recruting on that side of ball was outstanding...
December 4th, 2019 at 1:18 PM ^
By the numbers at 247, Ohio recruits are claiming UofM offers nearly as much as they did during the Hoke years, but IMO it's probably not worth it to be a high school player in Ohio pledged to UofM, they just take it waaaay too serious ;)
December 4th, 2019 at 1:42 PM ^
Very noticeable. Half his staff seems to be focused on the northeast. We need guys that can recruit the South, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, California, etc.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:12 PM ^
In my opinion it's not about geography. It's the type of player that Harbaugh is infatuated with. He wants a team full of Owen Marecic clones. Real "man's man" type guys that "love football." These guys make for great stories and sometimes great football players. The vast majority of the time I would rather have the better athlete.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:24 PM ^
Yeah, Lavert Hill and Owen Marecic are pretty much twins.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:55 PM ^
I didn’t say they were and I’m pretty sure you know that’s not what I’m saying.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:50 PM ^
How about Michigan and Ohio..
2021 DT Daymon Payne from Belleville Michigan
2020 DT Justin Rogers
I'm all for recruiting Ohio, but we keep missing big time players in our own yard, Oline and Dline.. Imo it's a big issue to keep losing players we should be way ahead of everyone on evaluation, offering and yet always late to the party.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:41 PM ^
Come on man. The Rogers thing has been beat to death. His primary recruiter, if you can call him that, was Drevno. Warinner made a decent push and got the kid on campus a couple times but it was too little too late. Belleville and Payne are another story but we have our issues with the Belleville staff apparently. Michigan has 3 of the top 10 guys in the 2020 class in the state and chose not to pursue a number of those guys seriosuly based on several factors. In 2021 they lead or have commitments from 7 of the top 12 guys in Michigan.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
Pretty sure Michigan just targets the guys on their board and works it's way down the list. I think the tone of your OP goes along with the theme that Michigan doesn't care about this rivalry as much as OSU does. I think the player comments have more political value than on the field. Michigan coaches have thrown offers to all kinds of prospects and there are a myriad of reasons why those prospects don't pick Michigan. If Harbaugh and company had the ability to take any player they wanted, the roster would look very different. I'm sure more Ohio kids would be there like Zach Harrision etc if Michigan had it's way. I do not think loading up on Ohio players just for sake of taking them will balance out the rivalry. Side note, Texas not being ass anymore would prevent the best players in Texas from flocking to OSU. Same goes for USC to a lesser degree.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
Ohio State has 25 commits, and only 8 of them are from Ohio. Most of them are near the bottom of their class, one of them is a kicker, vast majority are OL. They have only signed two guys who are 4*+ from Ohio, which is a pretty good percentage, because only 10 guys in the whole state are 4* and there's only 1 5*. For comparison's sake there's 34 kids who are 4+ in the state of Georgia, with 2 5* recruits. Texas has 45 4* kids and 3 5*s. California has 31 4*s and 3 5*'s. North Carolina has the same number of 5 star and 4 star players as Ohio, and nobody has ever treated NC like it's a football hot bed everyone needs to be recruiting.
Ohio just doesn't produce as much talent as it used to. The population is older on average than the national average. Focusing on Ohio just because Bo and Lloyd used to do it just isn't going to lead to an uptick in talent.
The only reason to put more effort into recruiting Ohio is if you think signing a bunch of 3 stars from Ohio will help you get HS coaches on your side to go after the 1 5star the state produces. But I just don't think you'll be able to pry the one elite kid the state produces a year away from the flagship school. There's simply not enough high level players coming out of Ohio for a second major program to be able to live in that state. The only reason for anyone to be in Ohio is if you're a middle level team and you want to snap up all those 3 stars Ohio State no longer looks at because they're big game hunting in Texas and Georgia.
December 4th, 2019 at 4:11 PM ^
If we, the Mgoblog fanbase start recruiting football players from Ohio, we'll be violating NCAA rules, if I'm not mistaken.
December 4th, 2019 at 4:46 PM ^
Hoke also capitalized on coaching changes and Luke Fickell. Once they got Urban, that disappeared. I don’t think Harbaugh and Co. aren’t making an effort in Ohio, I think the issue is that kids from Ohio in 2019 want to go to OSU more than anything in the world.
I also think their kicking our ass for 14/15 years is a huge factor in M not being as desirable for top level OH recruits. That won’t change until we start beating them.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:00 PM ^
Recruit elite players wherever they fall. OSU cherry picks their state and pulls from the south. It’s not a hard pattern to follow. Cherry pick in Michigan and pull from the south and west. We didn't lose 14/15 games because we don’t have enough OH players. Seriously.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:01 PM ^
As far as this year goes, Ohio's talent is down. They only have 6 total guys with a composite four star or better ranking. Only two are committed to OSU. Two are going to Cincinnati. 1 to ASU and 1 undecided. Michigan offered 5 of the six as did OSU. OSU was snubbed by 2, got 2 and is waiting on 1. Wouldn't worry to much about this year as Ohio didn't produce much. Next year though.....
December 4th, 2019 at 9:05 PM ^
Yeah, agree, the 2021 Ohio class is probably the best in 10 years.
December 5th, 2019 at 2:52 PM ^
It's ironic that the best coach ever and many players from Ohio are needed to beat Ohio.