Assuming Patterson starts, a Harbaugh recruit will not have entered the season as a starter...after 5 years.
Gentry leaving got me thinking:
So far, Harbaugh has started (and we would all assume, next year plans on starting):
Rudock (Iowa transfer)
Speight (Borges recruit)
Patterson (Ole Miss transfer)
Also, his first QB off the bench in both 2016 and 2017 was O'Korn.
In the meantime, he personally has brought in 5 4* QBs...none who have played QB at any point other than as back-ups or garbage time.
Personally, I think each decision was defensible. Hoke/Borges were a disaster when it came to recruiting QBs, so wanting to bring in a few older guys (Rudock & O'Korn) to bolster the early years made sense. Also, having a former 5-star who was transferring not because he lost his job, but because of sanctions makes sense as well, especially after the Speight transfer and Peters' bowl performance.
However, I am starting to wonder if this has been a quick fix that trades short term success for long term success.
For instance, while I understand the need for Rudock in year one, if John O'Korn is not brought in, Brandon Peters is the back-up QB. How much quicker does he develop if that is the case? How much can you blame someone for being frustrated to be placed behind someone who, if we are being generous was...not good? Peters did not look bad behind an awful OL in 2017 and even played well against Wisconsin before being injured. His bowl performance was terrible, but I've heard he really didn't get full practice time beforehand and was probably not 100% coming off the injury.
Does someone like Gentry (https://mgoblog.com/content/hello-zach-gentry-updated) play QB? A 6'7" QB who can move? What does a QB battle of Speight, Gentry and Peters look like if the staff isn't forcing him to play TE?
And while Patterson was very good for most of the year...is he really ideal for the Harbaugh system? Don't the ideas of Peters, McCaffrey and Gentry fit more into the Harbaugh mold? Bigger QBs who can move (Luck, Smith, Kaepernick)? Once someone is the starter, they are often entrenched, so someone with more experience, such as Patterson is probably not relinquishing the job barring injury, thus setting back the other QBs who might be a better fit for Harbaugh's offense.
And how does it affect recruiting when none of your recruits actually...play?
I tried to do some research on how QB transfers affect programs, but there isn't much out there. I am curious to glean what the board thinks and if its unusual to go this long without one of your recruits starting at QB.
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
From what I can find, they gave him one season at QB, then moved him to TE for the bowl practices prior to the first Florida bowl game. He's quoted in an article saying he still wanted to play QB from that time period.
He might not have been the best QB on the roster at that time because get this - he was a true freshman!
What does he look like with a couple season under his belt as a back-up? Is he better or worse than O'Korn in 2017?
From what it sounds like, its more likely the staff thought they were set at QB in part because of a transfer - O'Korn - and convinced him to play TE. Not that he just looked around and said "Yeesh, I'll never play QB here, better tell coach I want to play TE".
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
He might not have been the best QB on the roster at that time because get this - he was a true freshman!
Joe Milton was a true freshman this year and we didn't move him to a new position. Nor did we move Peters or McCaffrey when they were freshmen.
Logic dictates that if they had seen the potential for Gentry at QB down the road, he'd have stayed there.
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:20 PM ^
Sure, that's possible.
Its also possible that they could envision Gentry elsewhere when they thought they were set at QB, while they can't envision Milton anywhere else other than QB.
January 2nd, 2019 at 2:39 PM ^
So your argument is that moving Gentry to TE, which he played well enough to declare early for the NFL draft, was a bad move by Harbaugh because you would rather see him compete at QB, not because you think he is a good QB, but so we can recruit good QBs in the future? Man, the trolls are getting out of hand. Why not get pissed at Harbaugh for not moving a TE to QB to compete?
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
This seems like a little bit of a small n problem. If Patterson hadn't transferred here, one of Harbaugh's recruits (either Peters or McCaffrey) would be the starter, and then this thread wouldn't exist.
So then the discussion rests either on whether Patterson had made some other choice, or on whether Harbaugh shouldn't have taken him when he was available. The former is counterfactual and the latter doesn't seem like it would have been prudent.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯, I guess.
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^
I hope peters wins the job. But it’s 99.9% likely he’s gone. He has the better arm, calm pocket presence, and a much higher ceiling than mccaffrey or Patterson.
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
This is a terrible take. DM in like 5 minutes of play time looked worlds ahead of Peters.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:14 PM ^
Peters looks best and Dylan is a close second I would probably put Dylan 1st simply because he’s not afraid to run when necessary.. However I do agree both are better than Shea in terms of arm strength and passing ability
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:39 PM ^
You keepn' that "L" after this take.
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^
Harbaugh wanted Patterson over Peters in the first place.
I think McCaffrey will be pretty good.
Oklahoma has been starting transfer QBs the last few years and it seems to be working juuuuust fine for them.
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
Are those QBs a better fit for what Oklahoma wants to do as opposed to Patterson and Michigan?
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:15 PM ^
Yep Harbaugh did and he was gifted the starting position soon as he arrived .. There was no competition.. I’m not sure what Harbaugh has against Peters
January 2nd, 2019 at 3:50 PM ^
Are you positive that there was no competition? Or just making shit up
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
This is a dumb topic that's only useful for sports talk shows that have empty air to fill. This concern won't matter to anyone ever, it will only be voiced on lowest common denominater social media as a way to drive page views by flaming tribalism.
Don Brown's defense getting owned - we need to know what happened there. The offense keeping minimized - we need to know what happened there (I believe it's the tackles who can't pass pro, but what do I know). This and most other topics like it are middle aged men drama.
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:58 AM ^
Isn't it at least interesting that none of Harbaugh's recruits have started (and likely won't start) going into the 2019 season?
How often does that happen? Has it ever happened?
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:54 AM ^
So his first year that means he only would've been able to start true freshmen. Malzone and Gentry.
His second year, first full year, he got Peters, but with Speight and O'Korn both returning, it didn't make sense to start a redshirt freshman or a true freshman.
Third year, he had a solid returning starter in Speight, so him starting wasn't exactly a bad thing. Gentry was a Tight end at that point, and Malzone was out for the most part. Peters was at the helm and McCaffery was so new.
Fourth year he got an All SEC caliber QB to fill the gaps and did reasonably well, and he's coming back. McCaffery is a quality starting option, but just had Patterson returning. Kudos to Harbaugh for knowing when to fill the gaps with other options instead of just rolling with his guys.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:24 PM ^
I could see if he brought in a guy that was way better and helped us win but he brought in a average QB that got us the same record playing Dylan or Peters would have ... Yay Harbaugh :/
January 2nd, 2019 at 11:58 AM ^
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
Rudock and Patterson are Harbaugh recruits.
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:26 PM ^
He may not have recruited Rudock or Patterson out of high school, but he recruited them to Michigan. They count.
And McCaffery will be getting playing time in 2019, and will (most likely) be the full time starter in 2020/2021?. I'd say from 2020 on will be your standard Harbaugh recruits.
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
He recruited Patterson, albeit as a transfer. That still counts. Assuming Patterson starts next year, that leaves either 1 year of being the starter for Peters, or 2 for McCaffery. What’s wrong with that?
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:09 PM ^
A lot is wrong with that there was NO reason to bring in Shea for a 10-3 record ... We would be 10-3 or better with Dylan or Peters
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:40 PM ^
DM will beat out Shea next year, so then you will be wrong
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:47 PM ^
You had me at "Ass".
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:49 PM ^
The last two games really messed up us fans. The D got destroyed not once, but twice in a row. The O was good vs OSU, but a couple of those TDs were in garbage time. But the O was awful vs Florida.
So we’re really left with an off season of questions. And this is year 5 coming up. Everyone said year 4 was the make or break year for Harbaugh. Well we end year 4 the same way we ended year 3, actually worse, the team regressed more in our bowl this year than last.
10 wins is good, but MSU and Wisky sucked, anyone think we win 10 games if those two teams had lived up to their top 12ish preseason ranking? So I see the season as a failure. Patterson was good, not great. The team doesn’t look to be in any better position going forward than they were after losing to South Carolina. And staff turnover is coming.
Year 5... more of the same IMO.
January 2nd, 2019 at 12:49 PM ^
A lot of this is that this is pretty much how college football is. Unless you're A recruit pans out, you're going to be getting transfers. Everyone transfers now for playing time.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^
Harbaugh doesn’t give his QBs a chance to grow into the position... He went out and got Shea for what ???? To go10-3 we could have went 10-3 or better with Peters or Dylan.. I would have much rather go 10-3 with a RS Freshman who has more talent and would have the next 2+ years to master the offense ...
January 2nd, 2019 at 2:21 PM ^
Competition. Survival of the fittest. Get used to it. That’s will be the way here.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:19 PM ^
Peters committed 4 months after Harbaugh arrived, he's not even a true "Harbaugh recruit" since recruiting is a relationship that starts in freshmen year and by sophomore at the latest.
That's why it's so much easier to be successful as a college coach when you come from being a college coach, as opposed to a pro coach, since you already have the relationships with the potential recruits.
As a matter of fact, 2018 was really the first class where he had the full recruiting relationship with the vast majority of the signees, which will probably lead to a lot less attrition compared to '16/'17.
Good thing is he probably had a longer relationship with Dylan because of Ed/Christian, to me McCaffery is Harbaugh's guy and that era may start next year since Dmac is probably gonna be the better QB.
I hope the one who gives them the best chance to win ......is really good, whomever he is.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:25 PM ^
Just win.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:43 PM ^
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8
I've been going through some stats this morning. Quick question for the board, who had a better passer efficiency, Patterson or Clemson's QB, Trevor Lawrence?
Shea finished at 154.3 to Lawrence's 154. Hmmmm....
I checked Clemson's schedule. Prior to ND, they played two top 25 teams, Syracuse (#20) and Texas A&M (#19.) They won those games by 4 and 2 points. Meanwhile, we lost all three games we played against top 10 teams away from home.
Next year, Shea will have a starting lineup composed of mostly juniors and seniors that improved from #85 S&P last year to #25 this year. The offense will continue to improve, the schedule will be more in our favor, and the defense will have something to prove (the last 2 games were the exception, not the rule.) I've been quietly saying 2019 is the year. Well, it's 2019. Go Blue.
P.S. Bama has played 6 top 25 teams and rolled them all (maybe 1-2 close-ish games.) Bet the house on Bama.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^
A true freshman compared to someone with 2 seasons in the SEC
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:57 PM ^
Folks are bitching and moaning about our passing game. My point is that Shea is comparable to Clemson's QB. If you look at total defense, our defense is similar to Clemson's. The big difference between us and them (besides their POS schedule) is that they gained 6.75 YPC to our 4.96. We need a game-breaking back. That's what Purdue and Maryland have and it's why they were able to give OSU a game (and they had home field advantage.) I'm hoping Charbonnet is the missing piece of the puzzle that puts us over the top. Memo to the herd, the problem was not the passing game.
January 2nd, 2019 at 5:57 PM ^
The play calling is a major issue. We had one of the best WR cores in the country, yet it never felt like that was exploited. And yeah, Shea was efficient, but there were never games where his arm completely took over (plus there were a bunch of times this year he underthrew receivers).
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:45 PM ^
I'm fairly happy with what he's done with Shea and also having McCaffrey and Milton there looks fine.
January 2nd, 2019 at 2:21 PM ^
Ruddock, Okorn, and Patterson are his recruits. You still have to sell/Recruit a transfer, so no they are not technically part of a recruiting class but they sure still are recruited to play by harbaugh at Michigan.
January 2nd, 2019 at 3:22 PM ^
Did not Harbaugh recruit Patterson? I mean sure, he didn’t recruit him out of high school but Shea had any number of other choices when transferring. Somebody had to convince him to come to UM. Why is the distinction about where he recruited him from important?
January 2nd, 2019 at 4:45 PM ^
I’m not convinced he is going to guarantee who the starter is. I wouldn’t rule out McCaffrey honestly
January 2nd, 2019 at 6:44 PM ^
JMO but I think Harball got lucky by getting Ruddock and Patterson, apparently none of his recruits were good enough to displace them as the starter and if so then how much productive would the last 2 years be. 8-4, 9-3 or worse. I'm not too enthralled with Harball's ability to recruit/enable Qb's..
Saw somewhere in here that Gentry came expecting to be a QB and got the shaft from Harball????
Did either of the above improve under Harball? not that I noticed.
January 2nd, 2019 at 7:31 PM ^
I actually think Shea was losing his job to that tamu guy. Shea got hurt and backup looked to be better from what I hear
January 2nd, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
Your topic is mis-leading:
"Assuming Patterson starts, a Harbaugh recruit will not have entered the season as a starter...after 5 years."
And the all of a sudden you start talking about QB's.
Your title suggests that Ruiz, DPJ, Black, etc....were not Harbaugh recruits.
I apologize for not understanding the meaning of your mis-leading headline.
January 2nd, 2019 at 10:35 PM ^
*Morpheus voice* What if I told you Harbaugh recruited Patterson?