OSU deal with the devil?
After watching the frustrating Peach Bowl game and now watching Haskins & OSU control the game against Washington I can't help but wonder how have things gone so well for OSU the past 10 years and so bad for UM? Is there some fundamental flaw at UM that continues to bring in coach after coach that seems to come up short and OSU the opposite? Both Tressel and Meyer dominated UM and Rich Rod, Hoke, and Harbaugh struggled against OSU. Prior to RR coming to UM who would have thought he wouldn't be successful? Prior to Tressel coming to OSU who would have thought he'd be so good? Prior to JH coming to UM who would have thought his offenses would struggle so much? And, who would have thought Meyer's QB would be one showing uncanny accuracy and ability to find the open receiver whereas our QB whisperer's protege, a former 5-star talent, struggled in our bowl to hit open receivers. I sit and watch Dwayne Haskins just drop dimes everywhere and I go back and look at the recruiting rankings only to find our own Brandon Peters and Shea Patterson ranked ahead of him in the same class. I find this incredibly frustrating.
I keep thinking this thing is cyclical and eventually things have to turn around, but every time there seems to be an opportunity to do so (Tatgate, JH hire, ZS saga, the trajectories of the two teams prior to our meeting this season, etc.) it always seem to work out in OSU's favor. I want to believe that Meyer retiring will be good, but it's hard to believe things will change when they never seem to despite multiple coaching changes on both sides. I know part this is just frustration talking on a message board, but it's really uncanny how bad of luck we've had in relation to OSU in the post-Carr era.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^
We shouldn't have won last year because our QB wasn't prepared enough....that's part of coaching.
An unknown I-AA coach with less credibility than Harbaugh came into the rivalry in 2001, said his team would win at a basketball game, and delivered. Nobody expects to beat OSU every year but I don't think 1 out of 4 is out of the question considering MSU has beaten them twice.
January 1st, 2019 at 8:53 PM ^
The coaches put O'Korn in position to make very easy throws. They can't throw the ball for him.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:31 PM ^
I could have made the throw to Evans and I am old. O’korn was putrid.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:42 PM ^
His 3rd string qb wasn’t prepared.
Fixed that for you.
January 2nd, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
Ball on a tee here.
January 1st, 2019 at 9:03 PM ^
I wouldn't say JH is a miss, but I think one of the big reasons UM has missed prior is the Michigan Man thing. RR was never given a fair shake and almost sabotaged because he wasn't one. Then the next hire Hoke got way too much of a bump for having some ties to UM. It excludes a very large portion of the talent pool if you are looking for Michigan Men.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
I am just amazed at how clean they keep the pocket for Haskins. Today looks like a repeat of our game. I don't see alot of obvious holding going on either.
No pressure from Washington whatsoever. Haskins has all the time in the world allowing time for receivers to be open every time he looks downfield.
Will likely watch the second half without sound since Herbie's constant hard on for his Bucks is hard to stomach.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
They're playing a different game.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
Instead of crying like a baby, you can start acting like man.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
There's a "Godfather" quote for any situation ...
January 1st, 2019 at 6:50 PM ^
Watching OSU, and seeing their offense, is disgusting.. mostly out of jealousy.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:50 PM ^
Because OSU's only tradition is to win by any cost. This gives them the ability to skirt boundaries without care, pour funds and backing into the program, and most importantly, adapt in any way they have to in order to win.
Michigan gets a little clingy to the past because that's when we won rather than acknowledging the past while looking forward.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:54 PM ^
I concur with you. I have had this conversation with co-workers who rib me all the time about Michigan football. This is what Michigan football is now. We are not a win at all cost program. We aren't going to take elite athletes who aren't elite students as well. We aren't willing to take JUCO transfers or prospects with questionable pasts. We aren't willing to tolerate domestic violence incidents. We aren't willing to allow our student athletes to shoot and kill a guy a in a Craiglist transaction gone wrong. This is what it is going to be going forward. We will fluctuate between 10-2 and 8-4 seasons with an occasional threat towards a Big Ten title and College Football Playoff. I really believe this is what Michigan football going to be going forward.
January 1st, 2019 at 11:31 PM ^
You don't have to be an elite student to earn an athletic scholarship to Michigan. You just have to meet the bare minimum requirements. People on here act like every recruit is in the National Honor Society and we aren't allowed to recruit players that picked Ohio State. I imagine many of the OSU players had committable offers to Michigan. We are right there with OSU in recruiting and even have a better class than they do this year.
Look at all the money spent on the football team, all the money that goes into facilities, salaries, etc., it sure looks like a win at all cost program. If not, why in the hell are they paying Harbaugh all that money? It's about winning.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:53 PM ^
Because their entire identity as a school and fanbase is tied to winning football games, so they invest everything, all their efforts, break any rules they can, whatever it takes, to make that happen. As a result they get better coaches and players typically, and care more about beating UM than UM cares about beating them. At least in football. Simple.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:57 PM ^
As a result they get better coaches
If Tressel was regarded the same as Meyer was I could see that, but he surprised everyone by being way better than his track record. And, Rich Rod was very successful prior to coming to UM only to struggle. Hoke was an obvious mistake. But, JH was also supposed to be a slam dunk, yet the past few years have showed all sorts of weaknesses in his offense we would have never thought. So, I can't say at the time of the hires that Tressel was better than Rich Rod or that Meyer was better than Harbaugh.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:41 PM ^
Apparently OUR fanbase's identity is tied to winning football games, too, because we have had about 8900 threads about this since they pummeled us.
But yeah, keep denigrating them because they actually win.
January 1st, 2019 at 8:20 PM ^
Kind of. Our fanbase is tied to winning, except "the Michigan way".
January 1st, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^
If you got off your high horse you'd know that they've done a lot to improve the academic ranking in the last 20 years. It's almost like it's possible to do both.
January 1st, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
Huh, I don't see where I said they're sacrificing academic standing. I said their identity is tied to doing what it takes to win football games, it's the most important thing and they'll do whatever it takes to make that happen, especially beating UM. UM's identity is not near as much tied up to winning at all costs like OSU. It doesn't mean OSU can't also be good at other things, FFS dude
January 1st, 2019 at 9:08 PM ^
Having spent a year at OSU, it’s not a bad school, but’s it’s not Michigan. Not even close, really.
January 1st, 2019 at 9:44 PM ^
You just discover meme generators today gramps?
January 1st, 2019 at 8:46 PM ^
Then Michigan needs to have that same attitude to keep up. Michigan needs to “want” to win even worse than OSU. Michigan needs to demand excellence out of the players, coaches, support staff, janitors, band....whoever is involved with he football program....Michigan must be obsessed with beating them, because they’re obsessed with beating us. Harbaugh needs to improve the team by any means necessary
January 1st, 2019 at 6:55 PM ^
They are bringing in Okie State’s O- Coordinator now to be QB coach. Embarrassment of riches.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:02 PM ^
Link?
January 1st, 2019 at 7:06 PM ^
Being reported a few places, but I read as passing game coordinator
January 1st, 2019 at 6:57 PM ^
It is frustrating. I’m hoping the tide turns soon. I’m sure it will.
I wondered if Haskins was ready for the NFL. After watching our game, the NW game & now tonight, the guy has got an arm that’s like a slingshot and he makes throwing the ball look effortless. Moves like he weighs 170 pounds instead of 220.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:09 PM ^
I'm hearing Haskins is 70 30 on returning for another year. He wants to win the Championship.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:57 PM ^
There's no such thing as luck. Probability and outcome. Humans doing their jobs to the best of their ability.
People either make things happen for the better, worse, or neutral.
Martin was convinced RR was a can't miss hire. After all, Alabama wanted him, right?
Imagine if Martin landed Meyer, instead. (I'm not a fan of the guy, but we are talking wins and losses here).
The post- Carr era could have been the best era since Yost.
Nothing to do with luck, just a series of what is clear in hindsight, were horrible decisions by many.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:59 PM ^
How is that not luck? No one could predicted Rich Rod's or JH's struggles prior to their hires.
January 1st, 2019 at 8:57 PM ^
LOL, JH is a million times better than RR! I blame RR the most for destroying our football program.
January 1st, 2019 at 9:01 PM ^
We yeah, but it wasn't luck which yielded the results on the field. Nobody would have predicted Rich Rod would field three of the worst defenses in Michigan history with an offense that could do nothing against MSU, OSU, Wisconsin, etc but he did. Nobody could have predicted that Jim would not be able to field a competant offense by year 4 and make bad personnel decisions, but he has.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
New OSU coach Ryan Day is behind the explosive OSU passing game that shredded us in the shoe. Meyer spent the previous years screwing around with running QB's and barely beating us.
OSU is upgrading again with this coaching hire, running a mesh passing game, getting with the times- if we can't come up with a better offense to keep up with them they will keep blowing us out.
Day is only 39 years old- he is going to be around.
To answer your original question OP it is not a deal with the devil- the UM athletics dept. and brain trust simply isn't as smart as the folks who run the OSU program. UM hires coaches, OSU builds a system and a dynasty.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:02 PM ^
This. They hire innovators, Michigan hired a goofball.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
It's Meyer's last game. Not surprising they're coming out and playing hard. Plus the Pac-12 has been pretty weak the past couple years.
We're already seeing some cracks in the OSU armor in that their recruiting is starting to decline a bit, at least from their old-'Bama levels. I think this should have a trickle down-effect and, under Day, I think OSU will start to lose games here and there.
I'm as down on Harbaugh's ability to beat rivals as anyone else, but, objectively, next year does seem to be a great opportunity for us to finally beat OSU. We'll be at home, Urban will be gone, probably Haskins as well, and the team (should) be motivated by this year's asskicking of the century at the hands of OSU. But we'll see what happens. For me, next year is really Harbaugh's put-up or GTFO year for me, to be blunt.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:03 PM ^
objectively, next year does seem to be a great opportunity for us to finally beat OSU. We'll be at home, Urban will be gone, probably Haskins as well, and the team (should) be motivated by this year's asskicking of the century at the hands of OSU.
I couldn't agree more, objectively that is. I want to believe this because it makes sense. But, other things that made sense at the time didn't work out in our favor so it's hard to believe until it happens. I could also see our offense continue to struggle against good defenses, not use our weapons on the outside, have no offensive cohesion, and OSU shred our defense again that refuses to do anything but press man, then comes up short getting pressure.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
Friendship ended with bowl season. Now March Madness is my best friend
January 1st, 2019 at 7:00 PM ^
Not hard to understand, really. They got a coach who had several championships and undefeated seasons at every level in college.
Michigan got a coach whose biggest coaching achievements were an NFC title and one good college season where a generational QB talent won him an Orange Bowl (after his team got boat-raced by the one elite team it played during the season). The results have been as expected: good but not great seasons and an inability to beat elite teams or win titles.
Each of these coaches are literally exactly what they have always been. No satanic deals necessary.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
January 1st, 2019 at 7:14 PM ^
Well we won 3 of 6 from '98 - '03 so it's hard to stretch it to 20 years. Then, at the end of Carr's tenure we lost a few really close ones even though we still lost. It's really post-Carr from my perspective.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:20 PM ^
Here's my perspective: Jim Tressel 6, Lloyd Carr 1
You want close? None other than Brady Hoke played OSU close a couple of times in losses. Harbaugh has done so twice, also.
Lloyd was lucky that he had significant overlap with John Cooper.
How 'bout 17 years?
January 2nd, 2019 at 8:03 AM ^
I think OSU's recruiting really took off when Meyer arrived and we really tanked in year two of Hoke, but we splitting hairs here.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:02 PM ^
Honestly, football to OSU is about winning. For Michigan it’s about branding.
January 2nd, 2019 at 8:52 AM ^
A brand that is slowly being overlooked and not taken seriously anymore. Because of course.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:02 PM ^
Seriously, what are you are complaining about, teams that execute based on their roster and those that have come up short? Is it systemic, material or just bad play-calling and execution? It is whatever you think it is, and it won't change until this team convinces its fan base that it has turned this corner. Will you be satisfied when that happens?
After all, we don't lose to Purdue and Iowa by astronomical numbers on the road and deprive our playoff-worthy team a chance to get bounced by the only two teams in college football head and shoulders above everyone else.
Must suck to be Riley at Oklahoma and beat everyone with back-to-back Heisman winners and then still get your ass kicked by Alabama. Or maybe not fielding a complete team but being so entertaining everyone forgives the fact that you spot the opposition 28 points almost every week in nail-biter epic shootouts.
How about Clemson? You know, I remember when his team couldn't beat South Carolina or how the fan base was pissed that Tommy Tuberville left and some guy named Dabo was the new coach. Now, Dabo is the toast of college football success. Playing Alabama is an annual year-end excercise, almost a given rivalry. He isn't in favor of expanding the playoff format. Wonder why?
And Clemson as a campus, is like no school in the Big Ten. It is very small potatoes. But they win. Can't beat Duke in basketball but they are great in football.
Winning in college football is a prism of your own experience of success. We know this. We used to experience that. Now we just get frustrated with our past and inability to repeat its glory.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:21 PM ^
I'm not sure what your point is? Should we just be more patient the way Clemson was with Dabo? Should we be happy we have a good basketball program? Should we be happy we aren't getting blown out in the playoffs? Should we be happy that we have a large university? This is a discussion about UM and OSU's trajectories the past 10 years.
I don't really expect us to compete with what Bama & Clemson have been doing recently. I don't think we are willing to do what I assume they do. But, I do expect us to be able to be to create a little more cohesive offense with an upward trajectory. I do expect us to be able to make a little better performance than we did the past 2 years in the bowl games. I do expect us to not get blown out by OSU. And, I do expect our offensive line to be able to pass block and our QB to be able to get the ball to the open receiver when we have a 4-star laden o-line mostly with experience and a 5-star QB.